More antenna help

[jrv331]

I have a med size vhf/uhf antenna with a pre amp. MY vhf stations come in fine, but Im having trouble with a few uhf. I have done about all the fine tuning I can. Is there anything I can do short of buying a new antenna I can do to boost the uhf receiving power of the antenna. Are there any uhf "extenders" on the market.
Thanks
John

 

[wa1hog]

Where is the preamp placed? It should be at the antenna. If the signal at the antenna is a certain level at the antenna output terminals then the amp, if placed at the antenna will amplify that and sent it down the cable to the TV.
The cable will have signal loss at the UHF channel frequencies. You could, if the amp is NOT at the antenna, lose the signal because of cable loss. When it finally gets to the amp therte would be no signal from the channel to amplify.

 

[jrv331]

The pre amp is mounted on the mast about 12 inches below the antenna (thats where the instuctions said to put it). On a side note my antenna is mounted about 8ft above the roof line, not that I want to but could moving it up higher help? This is really getting frustraiting. Im getting ready to take out the baseball and use the antenna for batting pratice.
John

 

[boba]

Jrv where are you located? Where and how far away are the broadcast towers for the stations you are trying to receive. What exactly are you having for problems with the UHF stations no signal, grainy pictures, interference in the picture? Help us help you, give us more information.

 

[jrv331]

Sorry about not providing more information. I have a RCA antenna rated for 35m uhf and 60 m vhf. Im using a radio shack 15-1109 pre amp mounted on the antenna mast about 12inches below the antenna. I have the gain turned up all the way (30db) My antenna is about 8 ft above the roof line. I have my antenna pointed at 235' (SW) which is the direction antennaweb gave. I am using a Samsung SIR T151 stb. All the stations Im interested in are 35miles or less. One is VHF all the rest are UHF. My VHF station takes a few seconds to find the signal ,but then comes in clear. Im having problems with 2 UHF stations. One never came throught on the stb, the other came in fine a few days ago, now there is no signal. Im trying to find out how I can boost the uhf gain with out buying a seperate new uhf antenna.
Thanks for any and all help.
John

 

[boba]

Your looking for HDTV signals from your description I would guess you have a RCA 3030X 90" boom or a RCA3036X 120" boom both fit the milage range you list. Either should be adequate without the amplifier. I have used a Zenith silver sensor indoor antenna at about 40 miles from the broadcast towers with success on a DISH 6000 which does not have as good a Tuner as the SIR-T151 which I also have. You do not give your location or describe the country side that you are receiving over. Have you tried getting the signal without the amplifier? You maybe be getting interference and the amplifier is making it worse or the station may be broadcasting at low power. If you have a clean line of sight the RCA antenna should be a good choice.
After searching your posting history Cleveland Ohio looks like the area you are looking for. Channel 3 is broadcasting on Ch2 NBC so this is your 1 vhf you are getting. Channels 5 broadcasting on Ch15 ABC is one of your UHF stations and Channel 8 FOX broadcasting on Ch31 is your other UHF channel. Channel 15 and 31 show broadcast locations 1 degree apart and about 1/2 miles difference in distance. Ch15 frequency can be used for other uses besides TV broadcasts so this is the one that has the greatest chance of inteference. Is 15 the one you haven't received?

From all the posts you have made I would suggest you find a local satellite dealer/consumer electronics store and make friends with them and get advice locally. They are much more familliar with local problems and can be helpful.

 

[jrv331]

I do have a 3036x antenna. Channel 3 is the VHF that is giving me problems, when I first tune to it I get a "no signal" sign then a few seconds later it comes on and all is fine. I can live with that. 5 and 8 give no problems. Im having trouble with 43(UPN) it was there monday/tuesday now its gone. The one that was never there was 55(WB). If I turn the power amp off I get even less. I have some trees next door, but unless I mount my antenna 40ft up I cant avoid them. My zip is 44077.
I'll try the silver sensor and see if that works, anything thing at this point.
Thanks
John

Your looking for HDTV signals from your description I would guess you have a RCA 3030X 90" boom or a RCA3036X 120" boom both fit the milage range you list. Either should be adequate without the amplifier. I have used a Zenith silver sensor indoor antenna at about 40 miles from the broadcast towers with success on a DISH 6000 which does not have as good a Tuner as the SIR-T151 which I also have. You do not give your location or describe the country side that you are receiving over. Have you tried getting the signal without the amplifier? You maybe be getting interference and the amplifier is making it worse or the station may be broadcasting at low power. If you have a clean line of sight the RCA antenna should be a good choice.
After searching your posting history Cleveland Ohio looks like the area you are looking for. Channel 3 is broadcasting on Ch2 NBC so this is your 1 vhf you are getting. Channels 5 broadcasting on Ch15 ABC is one of your UHF stations and Channel 8 FOX broadcasting on Ch31 is your other UHF channel. Channel 15 and 31 show broadcast locations 1 degree apart and about 1/2 miles difference in distance. Ch15 frequency can be used for other uses besides TV broadcasts so this is the one that has the greatest chance of inteference. Is 15 the one you haven't received?

From all the posts you have made I would suggest you find a local satellite dealer/consumer electronics store and make friends with them and get advice locally. They are much more familliar with local problems and can be helpful.

 

[jimisham]

I would bet the stations in question are running low power and that's why you're having problems.
When the FCC told the TV stations they had to have a digital signal on the air by a certain date, they neglected to tell them how much power they had to be running. Many are running very low power.
I was just looking at the FCC web site. According to that WEWS-DT on channel 15 is running 870 KW and WJW-DT on channel 31 is running 625 KW.
In our area most of the full power analog UHF stations are running 5000KW, but one of them is running their digital station at 300KW.

 

[red hazard]

Things you can do.

John,

Did you replace the RG59 with the 1189A? That would provide less loss and MIGHT make a difference.

Secondly you could try a Channel Master 7777 preamp. It has a lower noise figure (2.0 vs 3.6 db) on UHF and higher gain (23.5 db vs 8.3 db) on chan 30 and you can expect similar differences on the other channels. Check the following link http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html
Even though it compares the RS with a 7775, the 7775 and 7777 are similar in performance. I use the 7775 because there is only UHF DT in my area. If those trees you mentioned are between you antenna and the transmitters, then you can expect things to get worse when the trees leaf out and possibly nothing would help except to move your antenna which might not be practical. I don't see how a small inside antenna like the Silver Sensor could help with the problems you described. Good luck.

 

[boba]

John you can't just power down the amplifier if it is left in line it will block signals. By antenna web WUAB ch 43 UPN isn't broadcasting a digital signal. If you had a signal earlier it probably means they not broadcasting on a consistent basis. Ch 30 WBNX DT (CH55) is listed as awaiting permit which means they are not allowed to broadcast yet.

 

[jrv331]

Follow Up. I did some further testing today. I went up on the roof and disconnected my current set up.I raised my antenna another foot(high as I can go). I ran a seperate RG6 (1189a) from the antenna directly to the tv by- passing the sir t151 stb and the pre amp. All the station came in fuzzy, I was able to get WB(55) but theres no way I could watch it. I then ran a small RG6 line from the antenna to the pre amp, which was still mounted 12" below the antenna. I then hooked that up to the line still connected to the tv. All stations execpt WB came in clear as a bell, which tells me I need the pre amp. I then disconneted the line from the tv and connected it the the stb, and used rbg cables to the tv. All came in perfect, except WB. Channel 3(vhf) started to cut in/out a little. I tried playing with the gain, but no help. I then turned the fm trap to in and boom, 3 came in right away. Just for kicks I unplugged the pre amp and nothing worked. I also checked the channel strength for each channel, its about 75percent. I played with antenna direction a little but could get no better. I guess that WB is too weak for me to receive with my current equipment. Just wanted to thank all of you for the help, and say sorry for being such a pain in the butt.
Thanks again
John

 

[jrv331]

Sorry , forgot to include that the WB Im trying to get is on frequency 55, its the non digital station.
WBNX 55 WB AKRON OH 234° 32.6 55
Thanks again
John

 

[red hazard]

WBNX 55 Analog

Hmmmm, don't know why you cannot receive a good picture on WBNX. They are transmitting at 5000KW while WKYC-DT channel 2 is transmitting at only 8KW and WKYC channel 3 is transmitting at 93.3KW. You might want to send them an email at webmaster@wbnx.com . Do you get other UHF channels OK?

 

[jrv331]

I get all the other uhf channels, except WVIZ(PBS) which is frequency 25, its also at 234 degrees and 36 miles away. This is no biggy for me though. Its WB thats stumping me. Just curious, could changing the position and direction my antenna mounted pre amp is pointed have any effect on reception. Right now its in kinda the same general direction as the antenna is pointing. Could raising/lowering it on the mast make a difference?
Thanks
John

 

[red hazard]

The preamp is fine since it's about a foot below the antenna. I would email or call the station to find out if they have any problems. One thing left to try is moving the antenna to another location on the roof. There are dead spots; particularly for UHF stations. This could be the problem if your neighbors are getting WB OK. Good luck.

 

[jrv331]

More Antenna Help- Update

I got rid of the Radio Shack 1109 and put up a Channel Master 7777. I did not move the antenna position at all and now I have lost a station (5.1)and the signal was stronger with the RS preamp. The CM came with the FM trap "in" and set to combine vhf/uhf( I need this) Will changing the FM to out do anything? How do I know if replacing my RCA antenna with a Channelmaster wil be worth it or not?
Thanks
John

"Break out the marsh mellows, Im gonna have plenty of roasting sticks."

 

[red hazard]

FM Trap (Filter)

My binary idiot has been out a couple weeks. The FM filter should be used unless you intend to receive broadcast FM radio.