My USALS menu looks funny

[freezy]

CoolSat 6100

in the manual the functiions in the menu are:
Satellite
frequency
positioner ................................ None, DISEqC1.2, USALS
move
fine move
dish latitude
dish longitude
goto .............................................. press OK
positioner command......... set/disable east & west limits, goto reference


However in the menu on my receiver:
satellite
Frequency
positioner .............................. None, DISEqC1.2, USALS
dish latitude
dish longitude
goto press............................................. OK
positioner command ......... set/disable east & west limits, goto reference


I don't get it. I drive the dish to the bird and I get 90%s w/87Q using diseqc1.2 then switch back to USALS but it moves like 3 degrees to the east when I tell the dish to go to reference.

I don't know what I am doing

 

[turbosat]

If you're using 1.2-is there a choice to Store Location for each satellite? I use USALS on mine, so I don't really know much about 1.2.
I always thought that the Go-To Reference thing meant go to your zero location, but I may be wrong. I better let the Diseqc experts tell you better.

 

[freezy]

I dont have an option to move the dish with the usals menu.

I put in my lat and long while the bird is locked and thats it?

 

[AcWxRadar]

Freezy,

You may kick me in the butt or make me eat worms if I am wrong, but read what I have to say before you put your boot on or head to the bait shop.

Your menus will appear differently and some selections will be added or omitted depending upon what options you have selected. If you select USALS, there is no need for the options to MOVE and MOVE FINE. Therefore, these menu items will not appear. If you select DiSEqC 1.2, there won't be an option to enter your site latitude and longitude, because DiSEqC 1.2 doesn't use that information.

I don't think that you are registering the difference between USALS and DiSEqC 1.2 in your mind. I think that you are probably identifying with DiSEqC 1.2 operation because you are either used to it over the years or just simply because you read it that way and it is stuck in your mind. Either way, you have this notion burned into your mind like a tatoo or a brand. You must give that up and retrain your mind to be more open. It is difficult for many to visualize the concept of USALS if they have been trained in DiSEqC 1.2 or vice versa.

DiSEqC 1.2 motor control is like a manual transmission and you must take control of it via the shift lever and the clutch.

USALS motor control is like an automatic tranny. You just put it in drive and it selects the gear that you need, depending upon your drive.

In light of this, you see why an automatic transmission doesn't show you the gear pattern. You don't need it, you can override it in most cases, but otherwise you don't need it. This is the same principle for USALS vs DiSEqC 1.2 The menu options are removed because they don't apply. So there is nothing wrong with it, you are just trying to think too hard about it all. Research USALS and how it operates and you will eventually come to understand what I am saying.

RADAR

 

[turbosat]

That's what I was thinking, since I only use USALS the other system seems kinda foreign to me. Funny how USALS just seems to work. For me anyway.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I dont have an option to move the dish with the usals menu.

Nope. It is not necessary. There are ways to circumvent this, but not like you know from DiSEqC 1.2 experience.

I put in my lat and long while the bird is locked and thats it?

Yep (well, mostly, that's the theory behind it)

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

That's what I was thinking, since I only use USALS the other system seems kinda foreign to me. Funny how USALS just seems to work. For me anyway.

And you are right. To be honest, I don't see why anyone bothers with DiSEqC 1.2 when they have USALS right there in front of their noses. I guess it is like I said and you said, the other option seems "foreign" if you are used to the other.

I am trying to keep this all simple for this discussion, but there is a lot more to it. For one, USALS cannot work without DiSEqC 1.2

DiSEqC 1.2 is a communication protocol and USALS is merely a program to calculate a command to send to the motor via DiSEqC 1.2, so you cannot have USALS without DiSEqC 1.2 communication. They must coexist in order to function. DiSEqC 1.2 can exist alone, but USALS must rely upon DiSEqC 1.2 to function since USALS is not a communication language in any sense. USALS is nothing more than a calculator (a mathematical program) that sends its answer(s) to the communication link (DiSEqC 1.2) to be processed. In essence, when you use USALS you are using both. It is really simple, but not easy to explain.

However, USALS has a 0.02% accuracy. If you drive the dish manually with DiSEqC 1.2, the accuracy is totally based upon your discretion of where to align the motor/dish.

USALS does have limitations, but most people don't even realize this because they never reach this point. e. g. I reside at 96.4°W and if I want my dish to drive to Hispasat 1C/1D @ 30.0°W
I cannot go there using USALS. If I use DiSEqC 1.2 I can step my dish motor to that sat. A few degees beyond this and I run out of mechanical range for my motor. Basically I have found that USALS will only drive my motor + or - ~59 degrees from home. This means that my furthest east sat for USLS is 96.4 - 59 = 37.4° and the futhest west sat is 96.4 + 59° = 155.4°. But, using DiSEqC 1.2 I can drive my motor between 28.5 and 164.4°W. This is purely theoretical as there are other factors that limit my reception besides the motor range. Mechanicaly speaking, I can do it, but there are no sats that I can pull in to test it. None that I know of.

 

[freezy]

i like worms. I do like 30w also. Whats this motor reset thingy all about? I wonder if I don't have the whole works confused. (My arc is correct though.)

 

[AcWxRadar]

i like worms. I do like 30w also. Whats this motor reset thingy all about? I wonder if I don't have the whole works confused. (My arc is correct though.)

Why do you ask about the motor RESET? Do you think you need it? It is not a typical thing to do, but it is available to you. If you RESET the motor, it clears all your setup information (the stored sat locations in DiSEqC 1.2 mode) and resets those positions to factory defaults.

Almost all H-H motors come with pre-stored sat positions from the factory. The motor itself has some internal memory IC for this. You overwrite those positions when you dial into a sat and select the SAVE/RESTORE option through your receiver' menus. That sends out a command to overwrite the original factory position with the coordinates that you personally found to work the best.

If you RESET the motor, those stored settings made by you are erased and the original factory settings are re-installed. I am not sure how a person would apply the factory settings like you would wih USALS. I would think that the motor would have to know where it is (locality using latitude/longitude) for the factory list to apply. I guess I am confused by this pre-stored sat list. However, it is present and that is what the motor defau;lts to if you reset it.

Usually a motor REST is required when you have driven the motor up against an obstuction. Like the side or you home or the roof peak by accident. Then the motor faults out due to an overcurrent fault and ceases to function until RESET.

There is a "HARD RESET" and a "SOFT RESET" on some motors. The hard reset erases every thing and the soft reset just clears current faults like overtravel and overcurrent limits. Some motor manuals don't explain this very well. Every motor is unique in this as well (as far as procedure goes).

In twelve or thirteen years, I have never reset a motor due to a problem that required it. I have run through the reset procedure, simply out of couriosity, but didn't really learn anything about it by doing so. How do you learn to repair something if it isn't broken to begin with?

RADAR

 

[Magic Static]

Motors drive me crazy! But ..about reset and your alignment problem. IF as you say you are tracking the arc correctly AND ALL sats are 3° off Then the reset will fix this. there sre a couple of reset methods depending on the unit. Basically you use the GOTO x and go to 0 position. Go to the motor and use the manual controls to move the motor the 3° to correctted 0 position and push the reset button, cut power to the motor and reconnect. Other means of making position changes I have used are "lieing to it" enter the wrong longitude value. Or in my case one of my favorite sats has worn a spot in the gear in the motor. I told the software via the sat.ini this sat is at a location 1/2° from were it actually is to compensate.

 

[Lak7]

Are all Sat 3 degrees too far East / West?
Maybe a small azimuth correction is needed?

If East Sats need a west correction, and West Sats need an east correction, it may be a loose motor (backlash)

USALS should kick-in when you try to scan a TB or Blind Scan.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I would command the motor to "Go To Reference" or "Go TO 0" and then look at the motor tube alignment on its scale underneath. This may be difficult to see with the dish attached. You may need to use a small mirror to peer up under there to check it. The pointer on the motor tube should be right at the zero degree mark. Try the "Go To Ref" or "Go To Zero" when starting from a sat far to the west and a sat far to the east. If it doesn't come to rest at the same position from either direction, then as Lak said, you have slop in the gear train (backlash needs adjusting). If it comes to rest pretty close to the same position, but it is not precisely at zero, you should manually step the motor to the zero position and then perform a hard reset of the motor. Then repeat the test for the motor to "Go To Ref" or "Go To 0" from both sides of the arc and ensure that the motor comes to rest at 0° on its scale.

RADAR