New 1-metre Dish Installation

[cyberham]

At last, I am able to install my 1-metre dish at its final destination on our lot. Although I may in time move it to one or more different spots within the lot later.

For this reason, I am still using a low "temporary" tripod which works much better than a pallet. When I hauled the tripod/dish assembly to where my site survey using augmented reality app predicted would be the best view of the satellite arc, I was able to set the azimuth quickly using a compass and receive 123W immediately. I hadn't changed elevation, motor declination, etc. from the last installation. All Ku satellites from 129W to 82W (linear and circular) are receivable with their approximate normal signal quality as measured at the dish with the exception of 87W. I'm only receiving a couple of transponders from 87W. This may be due to a bothersome tree top being in the way or some minor tweaking that may be necessary since the tripod almost certainly isn't as precisely vertical as the last installation.

After doing the mandatory testing with receiver and TV at the dish, I must now run my 330 feet of RG-6 that I have and hope it will reach the dish. Again, this cable run is temporary for now. So I have no idea if there will be sufficient DC voltage that reaches the motor and LNB, or if there will be any RF signal that reaches the receiver after travelling that far. It's all an adventure.

Searching for Signals

Laboratory in the Forest

Looking Due South

What the Dish Sees

 

[Brct203]

At last, I am able to install my 1-metre dish at its final destination on our lot. Although I may in time move it to one or more different spots within the lot later.

For this reason, I am still using a low "temporary" tripod which works much better than a pallet. When I hauled the tripod/dish assembly to where my site survey using augmented reality app predicted would be the best view of the satellite arc, I was able to set the azimuth quickly using a compass and receive 123W immediately. I hadn't changed elevation, motor declination, etc. from the last installation. All Ku satellites from 129W to 82W (linear and circular) are receivable with their approximate normal signal quality as measured at the dish with the exception of 87W. I'm only receiving a couple of transponders from 87W. This may be due to a bothersome tree top being in the way or some minor tweaking that may be necessary since the tripod almost certainly isn't as precisely vertical as the last installation.

After doing the mandatory testing with receiver and TV at the dish, I must now run my 330 feet of RG-6 that I have and hope it will reach the dish. Again, this cable run is temporary for now. So I have no idea if there will be sufficient DC voltage that reaches the motor and LNB, or if there will be any RF signal that reaches the receiver after travelling that far. It's all an adventure.

Searching for Signals
View attachment 164808

Laboratory in the Forest
View attachment 164809

Looking Due South
View attachment 164810

What the Dish Sees
View attachment 164812

very nice! at 330ft, you might want to make sure you have solid copper core cable, not copper-clad steel

Also, I'm sure the dish is not complaining about the view

 

[cyberham]

While testing, I'm using every scrap of cable combined together that I have on hand right now. I'm sure it's likely copper clad steel. I will look for better cable as you suggest and use a single run without connectors en route for the final installation.

 

[arlo]

I have my thoughts on this. I'm rooting for you. It's a permanent install once you get it all sorted out?
One thing. At the antenna. I would take a short coax jumper and slice it open to get to the center conductor.
Take a voltage measurement with the lnb connected for both 13 & 18 volt polarities.
Then actuate the motor and check the voltage getting to it all.
Me? I would ditch anything but RG 11 for a run that long. You will get considerable LO signal loss, but your satellite signal of course will stay the same. If you get adequate voltage to run the lnbf.
RG 11 and proper connectors. Kind of a no-brainer with larger center conductor/shield.
A bit lossy vs LMR400-75 varieties. But cheaper. In this install please put cheaper as a second thought.
You won't regret it later if satellite TV is what you're trying to attain.
Direct burial cable will give the gel inner coating that will help little dings from killing a section from water infiltration.

Signal loss will be one factor. Voltage drop over the coax will be another. And available amperage to power it all.
Remember. Measuring the voltage at the coax connector is not the same as measuring it under load.

I hope it works. Just prepping you a little. Please. Ditch the smaller cable. If its going to be permanent you will want a permanent install.
Since it seems as if you do currently have different spliced lengths of coax. Please check the method above for voltage drop. With the dish moved or a battery powering your receiver. I was kind of The Antenna Guy back in the day. Didn't look as geeky as he does. He kind of reminds me of 'someone' but with tons more toys to play with these days.

Hope it all works out. There are a couple more options. Depends on how far you need to go in the install.

 

[cyberham]

Enough work for today. I was wrong about the 330' length of RG-6. It was actually only 230' long. But the motor wouldn't even budge. So I reduced the cable length to just 100', long enough to reach one area of the house, and the motor and receiver are working fine now. Dish tweaking still required.

 

[cyberham]

I have my thoughts on this. I'm rooting for you. It's a permanent install once you get it all sorted out?...

Eventually it will be a permanent installation. Not now. House is still under construction.

Lower loss cable with one continuous run will be installed eventually. I don't need to bury it since I have a lot of trees from which I can suspend the cable, then drop it down to the dish. I'm always experimenting and changing so I like this method.

Now the Edision receiver is in an odd area of the house. I tried wifi-ing the signal from the Edision to my TV via my PC but there is buffering. Something to figure out.

 

[arlo]

Eventually it will be a permanent installation. Not now. House is still under construction.

Lower loss cable with one continuous run will be installed eventually. I don't need to bury it since I have a lot of trees from which I can suspend the cable, then drop it down to the dish. I'm always experimenting and changing so I like this method.

Now the Edision receiver is in an odd area of the house. I tried wifi-ing the signal from the Edision to my TV via my PC but there is buffering. Something to figure out.

And there is another option to ponder. I'm currently using my mio as the main receiver and put a Zgemma H7 in client mode. Its in an upstairs bedroom. And it acts just like my mio. Although to use the client receiver the mio needs to be in standby mode. If it's not, then you can only watch the transponder it is tuned to in the living room on the mio.
Channels change, my dish steers on demand. Much better than the webif/VLC way I was using. And the Fire apps just were a pita.
Yes. In the garage some 300 ft away using a point to point wifi link I surely can webif the pc there and then VLC video to the monitor or big screen. A bit clunky.

Everything except the receivers is made from stuff laying around. A couple of old routers. One zip tied to a dishnet dish in the cellar way pointed at the garage. And the garage using an eBay ALFA wifi patch antenna pointed towards the house. Signal at that distance is around -68 dB (not bad) and I used speedtest.net which showed 90mbps on the link to the web. Again, not shabby. Streaming uses 4-5mbps. NASA UHD zips up there quite a bit more. That's using pc>webif>VLC. But never a burp.

Better yet is hauling the Zgemma down there and hooking up the Etherenet cable from the p2p wifi link and it acts just like the home receiver. So there's a not so far-fetched option. But a few bucks extra for sure.
Send a dc voltage up the hill. Or low voltage AC and rectify/regulate it to 12 vdc. A robust Ethernet cable. A voltage regulator and surge suppression in a NEMA weather proof enclosure. And a receiver. Use another one in the house in client mode. You would have control of the box on the hill over Ethernet. But the indoor experience would be just like the receiver had coax connected to it.

My concern was sending the pixies up the hill over coax and getting enough voltage/current to run it all.
The math didn't work out. At that distance we start out a 12.3 vdc and end up with 7 point-something at the end point at less than the 2 amps you need. Over fat RG 11. Of course the receiver is only going to send 13/18 vdc out over coax.
Options? An lnbf for V and another for H with voltage injection (bias-tee) to run them over a separate cable and a 22 kHz switch to select lnbf's?
At that point wondering if ku sat. is really worth it. You never know. Big dish time?

 

[cyberham]

Thanks for all the suggestions. This morning I relocated my eero which is newer technology that spreads wifi across my property. eero create a mesh network that operates more efficiently than range extenders, I'm told. I raised the eero up higher. My wifi is reported as high as 1.2 Gb/s at times.

Now my wifi streaming from my Edision Mio+ is smooth. Using webif I can move the dish as well as stream. Now I can focus on getting the pole a little more plumb which is responsible I think for my losing some channels at the eastern end of the arc.

 

[cyberham]

I fiddled and adjusted today. I now have 87W, much of 97W and I've lost some at the western end of the arc. For practical purposes, this could be fine.

But if we were practical, we wouldn't play with FTA. I know what this dish can do from the past, and this configuration ain't doing it! I may start from scratch meaning re-position the tripod in a less rocky location, then nail it down securely so it's 100% plumb. Doing the rest is a piece of cake.

 

[cyberham]

Sometimes, it pays to stop, sit down and think. I realized the dish was behaving just as though I was changing the dish declination. The centre satellites were strong but those on the west and east ends were suffering. But I definitely didn't want to do that since the declination was set perfectly at my last nearby installation. All I needed to do was perhaps tweak the dish elevation slightly.

I now realize I was mistakenly adjusting the dish declination instead of the dish elevation after I re-read the motor manual. In my mind, I had reversed the two angle settings. Stupid. I guess I'm too old. I'm now making the same mistake a second time. I did this mistake when I installed my first motor.

To repair what I've done, and since I never changed the elevation setting at all, I should be able to go back and try to reset the declination correctly by peaking the satellites on either end of the arc and only tweaking azimuth for my due south satellite. This is easier said than done alone with a heavy 1-metre dish that has rusty adjustments. But at least I now know what I need to do.

 

[FTA4PA]

Sometimes, it pays to stop, sit down and think. I realized the dish was behaving just as though I was changing the dish declination. The centre satellites were strong but those on the west and east ends were suffering. But I definitely didn't want to do that since the declination was set perfectly at my last nearby installation. All I needed to do was perhaps tweak the dish elevation slightly.

I now realize I was mistakenly adjusting the dish declination instead of the dish elevation after I re-read the motor manual. In my mind, I had reversed the two angle settings. Stupid. I guess I'm too old. I'm now making the same mistake a second time. I did this mistake when I installed my first motor.

View attachment 164858

To repair what I've done, and since I never changed the elevation setting at all, I should be able to go back and try to reset the declination correctly by peaking the satellites on either end of the arc and only tweaking azimuth for my due south satellite. This is easier said than done alone with a heavy 1-metre dish that has rusty adjustments. But at least I now know what I need to do.

Don't kick yourself about it. I'd bet there is not one of us here that hasn't made a similar error then caught it later. Important thing is you figured out the issue.

 

[cyberham]

It's a shame since last time I had the declination set so well that every visible satellite on the arc had high SQ. I hope I can achieve this again. Today I was too focused on the tripod being plumb. This is important, but once you achieve plus or minus 1/2 degree from vertical, it's good enough. Minor motor adjustments allow you to then tweak the satellites in provided azimuth, elevation and declination are about correct.

 

[a33]

I now realize I was mistakenly adjusting the dish declination instead of the dish elevation after I re-read the motor manual.

Good that you discovered this!

BTW Though the 'short' terms in motor setups are 'elevation' and 'declination' settings, the 'full' terms are 'motor(-axis) elevation angle' and 'dish declination offset angle'.
I often use the 'full' terms, so that it is absolutely clear which angle is meant, after I had been confused myself in the beginning of reading about motor setups.
That is because the motor elevation can also be indicated by a latitude angle (which is then a declination angle; elevation (or inclination) is 'looking up', declination is 'looking down'). And the dish declination offset angle can also be set by a 'total elevation angle' to the clarke belt, or a 'dish elevation scale' reading. When the proper name is not used, you might get mistaken....

Greetz,
A33

 

[jorgek]

Is that an offset dish, looks like it is. Didn't know that you had to set declination on an offset with USALS. Does declination in this case mean Latitude?
On my Stab 90 there is a LAT setting on the motor as well as an elevation dish setting. No mention of declination.

 

[a33]

Does declination in this case mean Latitude?

That is not what I meant to say.

When setting the motor elevation "to the latitude motor angle", as sometimes you read, the latitude angle would be 90 - elevation.

The indication of an angle to 90 - elevation means that you no longer have an increasing number for a higher elevation. As I wrote: elevation (or inclination) is 'looking up', declination is 'looking down'.
So for the setting to latitude angle, where a higher angle means looking further down, this would therefore be a declination angle.

This is not meant to create more confusion!
It is meant support the understanding that elevation (or inclination) is 'looking up', declination is 'looking down', relative to your reference line (usually the horizontal or the vertical).
The confusion can in reality easily happen when using an inclinometer: when you want to measure a certain elevation angle, you sometimes read the elevation angle on the scale, but sometimes the 90 - elevation angle on the scale. Didn't this ever happen to you?

greetz,
A33

 

[jorgek]

I find this a bit confusing. As I posted, in the Stab USALS setup there is no mention of "declination" or "inclnation" settings. I always assumed these settings had to do with polar mount dishes and not offset dishes.

 

[cyberham]

Is that an offset dish, looks like it is. Didn't know that you had to set declination on an offset with USALS. Does declination in this case mean Latitude?
On my Stab 90 there is a LAT setting on the motor as well as an elevation dish setting. No mention of declination.

What he said. Yes, mine is an offset dish. See the diagram I posted above. There are two adjustable angles when using a motor. If using a fixed dish, you only have the dish elevation angle to set.

 

[jorgek]

So if there is no motor on the dish then this is a no brainer installation?

 

[arlo]

Hey. If you're an astronomy buff with an equatorial telescope mount it becomes easy understanding dish aiming geometry.
First thing in setting up an equatorial mount is leveling the tripod.
The same as the pole in the dirt or on the side of your home must be plumb.
Then you seek the north star. And zero the mount on that. And that's your elevation angle.
The North star is so far out there that you could consider it as a line of sight, stabbing an axle straight through the center of the earth from the N to S pole. But we have magnetic errors using a compass trying to use one to find true North.
So the polar axis of the 'scope and the polar axis of your dish mount elevation setting is parallel with the spike through the earth's center.
Get that right and swinging the dish from the west to the east will shoot a laser beam perpendicular to the center of our rock we call home 90 degrees out into space if you use the center of the dish and dish rim for reference.
But wait a minute. Satellites are parked out in space over the equator some 22,000 miles. Right?
Your dish needs to dip. Keeping the true North axis of it stationary.
So it can "see" the satellites out there. So you add declination to get that dip.
If you don't add declination, then moving your dish on it's perfectly aligned mount will skim over the top of the satellites. North of the equator.

 

[jorgek]

Wow! That is impressive. Don't understand much of what you posted. However to receive one specific sat is not a big deal! I have set up single sat KU band dishs in minutes without any issues.