New Avenger PLL321S-2 LNB Installed

[cyberham]

Well, that was disappointing. I replaced my current universal LNB with the new Avenger LNB I've been waiting for to arrive in the mail. It finally arrived. I have a good idea of what each satellite's signal should be (even based on time of day / type of weather) and my first impressions of the Avenger were positive. Stable signals, signal quality as high or higher than I expected on each satellite as I swung the motor across the arc.

Suddenly, without warning, I had no signals from any satellite. It was as though somebody had disconnected the cable from the LNB. I went to check the LNB and noticed, probably due to the motor moving, the RG-6 connector had come a little loose. I tightened the connector and put away my tools/ladder so confident I had found the problem. Still no signals.

After monkeying for a while, I ran out of light and had to give up for today. End result is no signals from the Avenger. I did connect my Shaw Direct dish to my FTA receiver and have verified the receiver is fine.

Tomorrow, I will swap my old LNB back in to see if all is OK with that one. I have no switches; my RG-6 runs from my receiver to my motor, and from the motor directly to the LNB.

What happened? Is this Chinese quality control? Did the loosened connector connect/disconnect the voltage several times causing a failure? It was all looking so promising at first try. I had even scanned in MICROHD on 103W which I haven't seen in months since my tree leaves started growing.

 

[jorgek]

Sorry to hear about the failure. I have 2 Avengers one on my Stab motor and the other on the fixed dish for 30w. Been in service since April without problems. The one on the motor had many connects and disconnects before I finally put it on the motor yesterday. Hope it turns out to be something simple like a short in the jumper between motor and LNB.
Good luck.....

 

[cyberham]

I have a feeling I may resolve the issue tomorrow. I think it is too unlikely the LNB would have worked fine and then failed. Out-of-the-box failure is much more likely. I may swap the cable between my motor and LNB even before I change back to my original LNB. I like doing the easiest stuff first.

 

[jorgek]

Get out the torch (flashlight) and get out there!

 

[cyberham]

Ha! I may never be heard from again if I went now. It's far from the house near the river where the raccoons and who-knows-what-else forages in the dark among the tall grass. Besides, I'm going to do it right tomorrow: I'll take my PC out so I can monitor the received signal in real time as I monkey.

 

[jorgek]

Our backyard also has critters that come out at night. Raccoons I don't mind, its the skunks that you don't want to surprise!

 

[Kraven]

Ah...how can you be scared of raccoons? theyre so cute and harmless..

Cheers, K

 

[pacificrim]

My Avenger PLL died very soon after I installed it and I also had the same problem with the first GeosatPro SL1PLL I installed. The replacement SL1PLL that Brian sent has been working great ever since. I have since decided that I'll buy inexpensive (I didn't say cheap) LNBs in pairs in case I get a dud. Having a spare is always handy for playing satellite. On a related side note, today I booked my whole day to install 4 security cameras for a client. They were good and fairly expensive cameras, but right out of the box 2 of them were duds. Quality control is important but so is buying stuff from a reputable dealer who will deal with exchanges. That's the only quality I can control.

 

[Tron]

Good luck... I'm sure it will be something simple like a fitting or cable.

The only critters likely to harm me at night working in my dish farm are Louisiana mosquitoes. Oh, and my outdoor cats (2) who will bug me until I feed them.

 

[turbosat]

Kraven's been watching that video of the guy tossing the raccoon down the steps, lol!! I love that video, I haven't laughed at an internet video that hard since I saw that stupid cat playing the piano a few years back.

 

[RT-Cat]

Cyber....Hope you get thing working. Bummer after waiting and the darn thing is junk.
.
Yesterday, RT was out on his porch and the growing up fawn was watching him and RT was looking back. Fawn got slowly closer and closer. About 20 feet apart mama showed up and told him to stop playing with that cat. Her other baby was with her and all three wandered off into the woods. Live entertainment for RT.
Today he was watching the chipmunk pick up the corn I left out for him. About 15 feet apart.
.
T.

 

[cyberham]

Watching nature is fun. Lately, I'm specializing in watching birds that will do almost anything for a few nibbles of bird food. I even have a one-legged, one-eyed bird that knows a bird feeder is the place to hang out.

I would say the Avenger is innocent. I believe I am having a problem that is not the fault of the Avenger. The reason I lost signal is due to the dish not pointing where it should.

Question: Does a PLL LNB pull more current from a receiver than a non-PLL LNB?

I'm developing a theory that the voltage drop along my 150 feet of RG-6 to the motor may be larger than the motor likes. Perhaps the voltage drop is larger than it used to be due to the PLL LNB pulling higher current than my previous LNB so the motor is stopping during long traverses such as going from 15W to 83W. If the motor stops but the receiver doesn't know it has stopped, then the receiver and motor might get out of sync. I think the diseqc commands are just one-way with no feedback.

Yesterday, I went through the motor setup process of moving to reference, resetting motor, and all was well (Avenger worked fine again as when first installed)....for a while. After motoring around for a while, now again no signals anywhere. In the daylight, I will use my remote PC control of the receiver and watch the dish move to see what it's doing, and to see if it has moved off reference again.

 

[Cham]

The PLL will take more power than the DRO. Notice when the PLL is running for a while it gets quite warm. You don't normally see this on regular LNBFs. Maybe with 150 of RG-11 you would be ok regarding voltage drop. The motor/feedline/lnb are likely engineered to handle 100' with a bit of headroom, maybe with the PLL you are at the limit. Check your connections in between maybe there is one with a bit of corrosion or sub-par barrel connector etc.
I have two Averngers here and have had no trouble with them. Also have the SP1PLLs and they have been good too.
Good luck!
-C.

 

[jorgek]

The Avenger does draw more current than other LNBs, its rated at 130 ma, and does get a bit warm to the touch as CHAM noted. However it is a tiny LNB so the heat generated is confined to a small area unlike larger LNBs where the heat build up may go unnoticed being spread over a larger surface.
For comparison here are 2 other LNBs.

The Invacom draws about 100 ma.
The GT-LST40C about 90 ma.

I run about 100 ft of quad RG6 to the Avenger PLL ,130 ma, and Stab 90 which draws 350ma at startup and 180 ma while running. The Dish is only 31" and well within the Stab specs. No problems at all with the S9 driving it either.

A larger heavier dish would draw more power.

Is there any way you can measure the the voltage drop at the motor while it is moving?

 

[northgeorgia]

I had a problem (read, thread on this) about two months ago (I'd link it, but sorry, I don't know how to search the archives! The forum posts only seem go back a month on the regular board). Exact same LNBF -- worked great with the Openbox s10, but very irregularly or not at all with the microHD. So I tend to agree that it is a voltage/power consumption issue. Replacing part of the cable run with higher quality stuff worked for me -- at least in my case. I know some will argue that wasn't my problem, but I can just give you my experience and results. I had used RG-6 except for a small 25 ft. run or so that went under the house (it was old Dish Network cabling from 10 years ago...worked fine with my DRO LNBF. I examined the wiring more closely, and although it wasn't labeled, the thickness was comparable to RG-59). After replacing this with brand new RG-6, the microHD worked (and continues to work) well with the PLL LNBF.

 

[jorgek]

I agree with northgeorgia. Not all RG6 is created equal. For long runs, 100ft, I really like the satellite rated quad cable. It is heavier and thicker than regular RG6. I too have run across RG6 which was no thicker than RG59.

 

[FaT Air]

I too have run across RG6 which was no thicker than RG59.

I've seen it also and believe it's Mislabeled 59. Purposely? Probably, as the typical homeowner doesn't know the difference. The center conductor gauge is the key.

 

[Kraven]

Got a 500ft roll of quad shielded.. IIRC, paid about 70$ for it.

 

[primestar31]

Yup, quad-shield RG-6, and Thomas & Betts "Purple" connectors for quad shield. It's the only way to go.

 

[cyberham]

Ok, lots of good suggestions particularly about the cable. I think I know what I need to do.

Interesting day here. I had almost concluded that all was well and then, bang, everything went dead coincidentally (again) with darkness, the arrival of the cool night and when I was at the far western end of the arc. Now I'm wondering if the PLL is coming unlocked based on the cool temperature and low voltage. Or if the voltage issue becomes a problem at the arc end due to the motor maybe drawing more current as it struggles with my reasonably heavy dish.

Data taken today:
1) Voltage with motor powered but stationary. Voltage measured at cable end while disconnected from LNB: 18.3 V
2) Voltage with motor moving. Again, voltage measured at cable end while disconnected from LNB: 16.6 V

These voltages don't seem too bad, but they are essentially without load except for the moving motor. I imagine when the LNB is powered, the voltage will drop further. What would be the specifications for low voltage at the PLL LNB?

There is another wrinkle. My former LNB, though sensitive, had a bad characteristic of scanning all frequencies at 3MHz too high. This new LNB scans the correct frequencies exactly. This means I need to delete all transponders and re-scan everything.

Today in the daylight I found the motor aiming at about 8W when I first went out to look at it. it was supposed to be at 0 reference at that time. It must have lost its mind last night probably while voltage starved as I tried motoring back and forth. So I re-aimed and reset the motor. While I had everything working this afternoon, I scanned most of the satellites I can normally receive. 101W for the first time in months scanned in BVN and TRWAM at SQ 70%! I have never seen any signal from that transponder at that high a quality and haven't seen it for months. I assumed the tree leaves were blocking it. Pentagon was also back. On 87W, LPBHD (DVB-S2) was peaking 60%. I've never seen a DVB-S2 signal here at that high a level. This LNB, when it's working, is the best of four LNBs I have tried. Though this is the first PLL type.