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BillD1984

BillD1984

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And I think of Carson Wentz. People are selling the chicks already and the eggs haven't even been laid. This is the type of thinking that causes Browns fans to be disappointed they aren't in the Super Bowl this year.

I’m not selling anything. My only point is Mac Jones had a very good (not great) rookie season. I also think your analogy is way off base. I think Belichick has built enough equity credibility that he deserves the benefit of the doubt…….for now at the very least. What I see is a rookie QB have a very good rookie season-devoid of a lot of weapons. He’s also in a very solid program, so he SHOULD only get better. Is there any guarantee that this will happen? Of course not. But I personally like the direction the gauge is going with this kid. Now, what I DON’T LIKE is Patriots “fans” comparing Mac Jones to Tom Brady at every turn (not saying that YOU’RE doing that) . Comparing a rookie to the greatest that ever played the position?? Seriously?? This is Mac Jones. And personally I’m very happy that he’s the QB of the Patriots.
 
HipKat

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That is just silly. Tom Brady is obviously one of the most successful QBs ever and he has a great deal to do with that, however, as the Patriots aged, Belichick et al. developed game plans that put him less at risk of hits. And then they won a couple more Super Bowls. Belichick, Pioli, Brady, and Kraft all have a good deal of credit for the franchise's unprecedented success in the Cap era.

Brady's last season at New England wasn't for the scrap book either, based on the brilliance of other years. They lacked a number of things that season that they continue to struggle with. There was a good deal of improvement this year, but the Patriots shouldn't be expected to be in the AFC Championship every year.
The point is that BB is not the GOAT without Brady, and his record reflects and maybe Brady isn't the GOAT without BB.
 
BillD1984

BillD1984

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My own opinion is Mac's ceiling will put him in the same company as Stafford or a a Romo or Blesoe. Adequate, manages well, but not in the top echelon of QB's

I would totally embrace that!! I’m not one of these bandwagon Patriot fans ( I’ve realized the last couple of years that they’re very common) that expects Mac to be Brady incarnate.
 
meStevo

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I LOVE this!!! It’s about time there’s some accountability for these refs!!

There is a lot of accountability, but feel there should be more transparency around it. NFL could earn a lot of goodwill / credibility if they pulled back the curtain on ref operations the way some other leagues have (discussions during reviews, etc). My favorite piece I've ever read on this topic is here - Game 150: A Week in the Life of an Officiating Crew

As for the atrocity we just witnessed, relative to the historic games in this series, that playcall will live forever in infamy.

It's remarkable how many opportunities the 49ers were providing for the Cowboys to make it a game and they just couldn't execute.
 
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BillD1984

BillD1984

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The point is that BB is not the GOAT without Brady, and his record reflects and maybe Brady isn't the GOAT without BB.

While I agree that you can certainly argue that Belichick is not the GOAT (I happen to believe he is), IMO the Brady/GOAT debate left the barn a few years ago.
 
meStevo

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Steelers D looking good and not letting the Chiefs offense get away with any mistakes, while their offense doesn't look like it's practiced in a week or two.
 
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The point is that BB is not the GOAT without Brady, and his record reflects and maybe Brady isn't the GOAT without BB.
So Belichick hasn’t been able to take the Pats to the Super Bowl in two years, hence some level of failure?

Belichick is the among the best football coaches ever.
 
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While I agree that you can certainly argue that Belichick is not the GOAT (I happen to believe he is), IMO the Brady/GOAT debate left the barn a few years ago.
Bare statistics, Brady isn't the GOAT, just among the best of all time. But the stats get a bump seeing he didn't play in a dome like Manning. Montana, Marino, Graham, probably a couple others I'm not aware because I'm not old enough. You can argue that.

Most successful, when the chips were down? Brady is the best ever. Who can compete with his numbers, and in the Cap era?! Otto Graham? Any one else remotely close?

The Super Bowl win in Tampa cemented what was already cemented at Super Bowl Ring 6 (5?). And add to that, he won with Tampa in his 40s?! Almost no one has played with his level of success at his age. And the Super Bowl LI comeback against Atlanta? It isn't debatable. Only Graham comes close, but Brady played in the Cap era. So that edges that out.
 
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madmadworld

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Only Graham comes close, but Brady played in the Cap era. So that edges that out.
Paul Brown came and offered him a contract worth $7,500 per year ($107,814 in 2020 dollars) in 1945 to play for a professional team he was coaching in Cleveland.

Money not big factor in the 50s :biggrin
 
meStevo

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1642391796386
 
HipKat

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So Belichick hasn’t been able to take the Pats to the Super Bowl in two years, hence some level of failure?

Belichick is the among the best football coaches ever.
His record without Brady is not anywhere near best ever.

ill Belichick with Tom Brady (regular season)219-64 (.774)
Bill Belichick without Tom Brady (regular season)63-75 (.457)
Bill Belichick with Tom Brady (playoffs)30-11 (.732)
Bill Belichick without Tom Brady (playoffs)1-1 (.500)
 
HipKat

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Bare statistics, Brady isn't the GOAT, just among the best of all time. But the stats get a bump seeing he didn't play in a dome like Manning. Montana, Marino, Graham, probably a couple others I'm not aware because I'm not old enough. You can argue that.

Most successful, when the chips were down? Brady is the best ever. Who can compete with his numbers, and in the Cap era?! Otto Graham? Any one else remotely close?

The Super Bowl win in Tampa cemented what was already cemented at Super Bowl Ring 6 (5?). And add to that, he won with Tampa in his 40s?! Almost no one has played with his level of success at his age. And the Super Bowl LI comeback against Atlanta? It isn't debatable. Only Graham comes close, but Brady played in the Cap era. So that edges that out.
Graham, Montana and Marino didn't play in a Dome
 
meStevo

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Not super optimistic about playing a Bills team next week that's firing on all cylinders, but regardless of how that game goes it's been a productive season. Winner next week in KC will make it to the Super Bowl IMO.
 
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Jimbo

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Bare statistics, Brady isn't the GOAT, just among the best of all time. But the stats get a bump seeing he didn't play in a dome like Manning. Montana, Marino, Graham, probably a couple others I'm not aware because I'm not old enough. You can argue that.

Most successful, when the chips were down? Brady is the best ever. Who can compete with his numbers, and in the Cap era?! Otto Graham? Any one else remotely close?

The Super Bowl win in Tampa cemented what was already cemented at Super Bowl Ring 6 (5?). And add to that, he won with Tampa in his 40s?! Almost no one has played with his level of success at his age. And the Super Bowl LI comeback against Atlanta? It isn't debatable. Only Graham comes close, but Brady played in the Cap era. So that edges that out.
Montana and Marino did NOT play in Domes.

While I give Brady lots of credit .... when he went to Tampa, they IMMEDIATELY went out and BOUGHT players, Tampa was/is STACKED because Brady came there .... had Brady not gone there, Tampa would not have went out to buy players and they would not be as good as they are now.
Brady would Not have won in Tampa had they Not gone out and got the players they did.
Brady is the Top Dog, but he's had a ton of others help him be Elite.
 
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Jimbo

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Not super optimistic about playing a Bills team next week that's firing on all cylinders, but regardless of how that game goes it's been a productive season. Winner next week in KC will make it to the Super Bowl IMO.
Not much of a limb there ... :)
This is going to be a fun game .... Let see how the Bills D does against KC.
I don't think KC's D is good enough to beat Buffalo, Buffalo is rolling in all phases at the moment ....then again, teams performance change from week to week depending on who they are playing.

Should be fun.
 
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