OTA Program Guide on Dish Receiver

[Yes616]

Recently, I hooked up an OTA antenna to both a ViP722 and ViP211. I love the way the OTA channels are integrated right into the mix of satellite programs.

There's just one thing. Some of the digital subs are totally wrong.

Example: WVIA is the PBS channel from Scranton, PA that used to be analog 44. They seem to now state in their station breaks that they are 41. Now 44.1 (the main HD channel, shows correct program info. 44.2 shows exactly the same thing as 44.1 but this is clearly not the case. This channel is a mix of other PBS programs and some local stuff as well in SD but again different from main channel. 44.3 is PBS Create and that one is correct.

I contacted the station manager about all of this and he didn't know what to tell me but was investigating. He is going on vacation for a week so I won't know more till he comes back. I did tell him I think it has something to do with the company that provides Dish's channel guide. Tribune Media Services. I hope thats a start in the right direction.

There is another station with the same kind of problem. WRNN in Kingston, NY shows correctly at 48.1 but 48.2 is wrong and 48.3 doesn't even exist. That is just a black screen but the guide shows programming. Now before anyone tries to correct me about WRNN being on 62, it is mapped there via Dish LiL for the NYC DMA. 48 has been the digital OTA signal for some time and it stayed there. 62 was the old analog spot.

Anyone else using their Dish receivers for OTA have issues like this? Should Dish tech support be contacted about this? Anyone getting WVIA or WRNN using a traditional (or non-Dish) receiver having issues like this as well?

 

[Hall]

If the sub-channel guide data is wrong, Dish is the one who isn't mapping it properly. It's possible that the station changed their TSID, for example, and Dish is "looking" for the old ID. Did a station change that and not notify Dish ? That's certainly possible.

Don't bother contacting Dish's tech support. They'll simply blame the TV station. What you really need to happen is explain it clearly to the engineering department at the station(s) and they need to contact Dish. They obviously don't call the same number we do.... Does that work ? Good luck.... I've been in contact with the local PBS asst chief engineer about a similar issue. They moved some channels around when they shut off analog and Dish didn't update their end. The CE has called Dish and given them the proper information to no avail.

 

[DishSubLA]

I have to say that I do believe this is in some way Dish's fault. I have both ViP DVR's and a Tivo Series 3. Tivo uses the same service, Tribune, for its data guide with the very same guide data on both Dish and Tivo, except on many of the OTA sub-channels.

For example, on LA OTA 5.2 Dish still has "Digital Service" on its gude, while Tivo (eventually) many months ago provided the correct guide data for 5.2 as a This TV channel and all accurate listings with descriptions. In fact, this is the case in just about every sub-channel that the Dish EPG displays as "Digital Service" while Tivo has the full and correct guide data for that sub-channel. There also many examples on the Dish EPG where the data is WRONG, as reported by the OP. Sometimes the wrong data doesn't reflect a change made by the station a long time ago or is it that Dish just fills in the same data from the main channel in its sub-channel EPG display.

Keep in mind that Dish does have correct guide data or at least a channel ID instead of "Digital Service" on many sub channels, but this is not the case in far too many of the sub-channels that appear in the Dish EPG. So, there is something going on here, and I have to conclude that it has to do more with Dish than Tribune.

Hey, OP, I feel your pain with the local PBS's. For LA 28: 28.1 is correct; 28.2 shows the same data as main channel, but in fact it is the KCET Orange County channel with completely different programs at different times; 28.3 is correct V-Me EPG data; 28.4 is correct PBS World EPG data. This mixture of correct and incorrect EPG data on a single station and its sub-channels occurs on just about EVERY OTA station the Dish displays. I'm sorry, but my position is a call for DISH TO FIX THIS, NOW PLEASE! I have to change to the Tivo to see accurate EPG data on the sub channels, and I can't use Dish's DVR's for the convenience of recording the shows because Dish guide data is wrong or non-existent.

If someone knows something concrete about this, please share it with us.

 

[whatchel1]

Yes but not one needed

If the sub-channel guide data is wrong, Dish is the one who isn't mapping it properly. It's possible that the station changed their TSID, for example, and Dish is "looking" for the old ID. Did a station change that and not notify Dish ? That's certainly possible.

Don't bother contacting Dish's tech support. They'll simply blame the TV station. What you really need to happen is explain it clearly to the engineering department at the station(s) and they need to contact Dish. They obviously don't call the same number we do.... Does that work ? Good luck.... I've been in contact with the local PBS asst chief engineer about a similar issue. They moved some channels around when they shut off analog and Dish didn't update their end. The CE has called Dish and given them the proper information to no avail.

Yes we have a different number than the average Joe does but it is for the uplinks. That won't correct the EPG info. Only trib can do this. Not sure correcting the TSID will do much for the EPG. PSIP is where the guide data is put out by the channel and I don't think that E8 displays what is in the PSIP data.

 

[whatchel1]

PSIP

I have to say that I do believe this is in some way Dish's fault. I have both ViP DVR's and a Tivo Series 3. Tivo uses the same service, Tribune, for its data guide with the very same guide data on both Dish and Tivo, except on many of the OTA sub-channels.

For example, on LA OTA 5.2 Dish still has "Digital Service" on its gude, while Tivo (eventually) many months ago provided the correct guide data for 5.2 as a This TV channel and all accurate listings with descriptions. In fact, this is the case in just about every sub-channel that the Dish EPG displays as "Digital Service" while Tivo has the full and correct guide data for that sub-channel. There also many examples on the Dish EPG where the data is WRONG, as reported by the OP. Sometimes the wrong data doesn't reflect a change made by the station a long time ago or is it that Dish just fills in the same data from the main channel in its sub-channel EPG display.

Keep in mind that Dish does have correct guide data or at least a channel ID instead of "Digital Service" on many sub channels, but this is not the case in far too many of the sub-channels that appear in the Dish EPG. So, there is something going on here, and I have to conclude that it has to do more with Dish than Tribune.

Hey, OP, I feel your pain with the local PBS's. For LA 28: 28.1 is correct; 28.2 shows the same data as main channel, but in fact it is the KCET Orange County channel with completely different programs at different times; 28.3 is correct V-Me EPG data; 28.4 is correct PBS World EPG data. This mixture of correct and incorrect EPG data on a single station and its sub-channels occurs on just about EVERY OTA station the Dish displays. I'm sorry, but my position is a call for DISH TO FIX THIS, NOW PLEASE! I have to change to the Tivo to see accurate EPG data on the sub channels, and I can't use Dish's DVR's for the convenience of recording the shows because Dish guide data is wrong or non-existent.

If someone knows something concrete about this, please share it with us.

Tivo is using the PSIP data for the OTA channels. As I said in the above post pretty sure E* doesn't use the PSIP data. It uses the TSID to identify the channel numbers only guide data isn't coming from that.

 

[garys]

WVIA used to not broadcast much in HD and had three subchannels with 44.1 and 44.2 showing the same programing at the time. After the digital transition, WVIA started showing more HD and dropped 44.4 and moved the programing from there to 44.2, Dish (Tribune Media) did not follow the switch and we have had the incorrect programing ever since.

 

[Hall]

That won't correct the EPG info. Only trib can do this. Not sure correcting the TSID will do much for the EPG. PSIP is where the guide data is put out by the channel and I don't think that E8 displays what is in the PSIP data.

Tribune likely knows nothing or cares nothing about "TSID" values. Tribune has the information given to them by the stations and maybe the include the TSID as part of it. In the end though, it's Dish who is receiving the PSIP data, extracting the TSID and re-mapping the information to display it in our guides. I guarantee you, Dish has the wrong TSID assigned or it's the old value.

 

[Max Wright]

I'll chime in with some good and bad experience in this area.

The good: The PBS station out of Kansas City, MO area was giving the wrong information. In fact, it was giving a station out of Florida. So, sometimes it would be correct, but most of the time it was wrong. They finally got this fixed back in August 2009.

The bad: It first went bad in November 2007! I contacted people on both ends to try to get this fixed but never got it.

You might also try getting them via twitter. For some reason, they like responding to people there (since it is an open forum etc.).

 

[kb7oeb]

Tivo is using the PSIP data for the OTA channels. As I said in the above post pretty sure E* doesn't use the PSIP data. It uses the TSID to identify the channel numbers only guide data isn't coming from that.

Tivo does not use the PSIP guide either. I picked up a Tivo years ago for OTA because of Dish's half ass OTA guide data. Tivo has guide data for all the full power stations including sub channels and most of the low power digitals that sprung up after the transition. Not to say they have been perfect either but so far I've been able to get guide errors corrected.

 

[Yes616]

Thanks to all for the great input.

I just got off the phone from someone at Tribune Media. She is going to check into all of this. She also has all of my contact info. I also told her all about this site so she may start lurking.

She asked me to relay the message to all of you to contact the programming department at any stations you may be having issues with. Tell them all about your Dish receivers and how this feature works. Then of course, tell them the problem(s). The stations will then contact Tribune to get all of this stuff worked out.

I promised I wouldn't give out her contact info so she wouldn't get bombarded with calls from here. Let's see how this all pans out now.

 

[kb7oeb]

Tribune runs http://tvlistings.com/ , you can use that site to find out what Tribune has for your area.

 

[DishSubLA]

Tivo is using the PSIP data for the OTA channels. As I said in the above post pretty sure E* doesn't use the PSIP data. It uses the TSID to identify the channel numbers only guide data isn't coming from that.

Sorry, but WRONG! Tivo is not using PSIP for local OTA. I've seen the PSIP data, and it isn't anywhere near as detailed as Dish and Tivo. In fact, Dish and Tivo have IDENTICAL info guide program descriptions for local OTA. I am unaware of ANY Tivo unit ever using PSIP for program descriptons. All Tivo guide program data is provided by Tribune.

Our concern is not the mapping and labeling of the OTA's which can involve the PSIP, but the accurate EPG data.

And we know for sure Dish sat STB's (beyond the old legacy HD boxes) do not use PSIP. Dish does use PSIP for its MyTV Pal DVR (did I get that long, stupid, name correct?)

 

[DishSubLA]

Thanks to all for the great input.

I just got off the phone from someone at Tribune Media. She is going to check into all of this. She also has all of my contact info. I also told her all about this site so she may start lurking.

She asked me to relay the message to all of you to contact the programming department at any stations you may be having issues with. Tell them all about your Dish receivers and how this feature works. Then of course, tell them the problem(s). The stations will then contact Tribune to get all of this stuff worked out.

I promised I wouldn't give out her contact info so she wouldn't get bombarded with calls from here. Let's see how this all pans out now.

Thanks for getting the word to Tribune on this; they might pressure Dish to get it right. But as we have discovered, it really isn't Tribune's fault because the vast majority of TiVo's guide program description for OTA's is correct. And since both Dish and TiVo use Tribune, it is Dish that has no data on the very same channels that TiVo has full and correct data.

 

[Hall]

FWIW, the Tribune site above, Zap2It, has the correct OTA data for my area. Was going to compare it to DISH Remote Access Login but they're once again showing guide data for Tucson AZ stations... The station IDs are correct, but the programs aren't. "Tucson Today at 5am" isn't a program for people in the Dayton OH area !

 

[Yes616]

We have some movement..

FWIW, the Tribune site above, Zap2It, has the correct OTA data for my area. Was going to compare it to DISH Remote Access Login but they're once again showing guide data for Tucson AZ stations... The station IDs are correct, but the programs aren't. "Tucson Today at 5am" isn't a program for people in the Dayton OH area !

Yes, I noticed if I enter a Scranton area zip code and check this out at the online site, it is correct there when the OTA option is checked.

I received a couple of e-mails from the Tribune folks today. Post your issues here and they will see them. Now we can finally get this all fixed.

I already see a change on the guide data for WVIA 44.2. The duplicate data for 44.1 is now gone. It just says "Digital Service". I suppose this is step one. I am told it will take a few days to get it all fixed.

Also, DO NOT ASK ME NOR TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CONTACT THEM DIRECTLY. THEY ARE NOW LOOKING HERE SO THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH.

 

[Hall]

If they're looking here, I guess it doesn't hurt to ask or check...

Dayton OH DMA .... WPTD (PBS affiliate)

When they shut off analog, they shuffled around their digital sub-channels, 16-1 through 16-5. As I recall, 16-5 was the HD sub-channel and 16-1 was the SD version of the same. Today, 16-1 is the HD feed and 16-5 is the SD feed.

On Dish's EPG, 16-1 reads "Digital Service", meaning they don't have a matching entry.

(Will have to edit this post later when I get home for add'l details)

 

[Yes616]

Best way to post your issues

1. Call letters
2. Channel number (also is this the channel they seem to want to be called by? You can see that in their station breaks).
3. Issues with programming guide.

Make it clear so everything is understood easily.

 

[levibluewa]

RE: vip211s

How do you get local programming info when you don't sub to the locals via DISH? The Directv receiver allows you to select via zip code a primary and secondary market and it displays all the channel and program info, but haven't been able to do the same with the 211s. Any help guys! Thanks.

 

[Hall]

Your Dish receiver does receive PSIP sent out by local stations. They then take part of that data, presumably the TSID, and look for matching entries with local stations that they do carry. This is the same reason that people who can get more than one market's stations via OTA will get the guide data for both markets.

 

[Hall]

Okay, here's what my Dish EPG is currently showing for WPTD:

16-01
16HD

16-02
16AG

16-03
16Cr

16-04
16 O

16-05
16DT

HD = High Def
Ag = Again
Cr = Create
O = Ohio
DT = (SD simulcast of HD channel)

16-01 has currently reads "Digital Service"

16-02 is showing the guide data for 16-01

16-03, -04, and -05 has correct data