Question about multi-switches

[Tech#344]

I am modfying a system that I have installed in a language school. I currently have a 1m dish pointing at G19 @ 97w and we are feeding 12 SatHawk recievers through a multi-switch.

The customer wants to add SES-1 @ 101w and be able to see all the channels from both satellites on all of the recievers plus about 5 or 6 additional ones to be added later.

I already have the second dish to go on the roof. I know that I will need to add/replace LNBs, cable and/or switches. I THINK that I know what I need, but I am posting this as an open question for recomendations for the LNBs, number of cables needed, and multi-switch(es).

Please be specific about, types, Make and Models, and Venders if possible. (Web links are appreciated.)

Kenn

 

[Anole]

Well, you didn't say what multiswitch you were currently using, but... it's probably some 2x12 or 2x16...?
I don't really have any use for so many outputs , so I am not familiar with the big ones.

Anyway, 16-output multiswitches -do- exist, and that might be what the doctor ordered.
And to handle two LNBs for two satellites, you need a 4-input switch (or 5-input, won't matter)
Your receivers would select between satellites by turning on or off the 22khz tone.
See multiswitch wiring info in the Switches Simplified FAQ thread.

As you already know, the LNBs need two outputs.


Alternately, you might find some four-output LNBs with a 10750 Local Oscillator frequency.
(I hope all the ones available aren't for European use, and give you dual LO, selecting between the two with 22khz)
With quad output Standard LNBs, you could feed TWO 4x8 multiswitches with each LNB, which might be a cheaper solution...

We'll have a discussion on the subject.
Looking forward to more ideas being presented -

 

[Mr Tony]

well Sadoun carries a 5x16 multiswitrch...so that would handle 16 receivers with both LNB's. As noted the LNB's have to be dual (which obviously you know) but this would be the "easiest" thing for right now.
Pico Macom Rack-Mount 5-Input Satellite Multiswitches TSMS-5/16RK

And honestly if you need more outputs I dont see why you couldn't "daisy chain" a 4x8 on 4 outputs of the 5x16. But you would need to use 4 lines. That would be the 1st drawing


2nd one would be a little more cumbersome but cheaper. Get 4 4 way satellite grade (up to 2200 Mhz or higher) splitters and a bunch of 4x8 or even the D* 6x8 multiswitches
On each output of the LNB put the 4 way splitter. From the splitter go to the SAME INPUT on each of the multiswitches
do that for each line

The 4x8's are usually powered but the 6x8 are not..and both can be had for dirt cheap compared to option 1..see 2nd pic

oh and a sidenote...all Sathawks? seriously? You could get by with Coolsat 5000's for those 2 satellites

 

[Anole]

Well, building on what Iceberg said, here's another inexpensive idea:
- 2 dual output LNBs, feeding four coax to a...
- 4x8 WNC multiswitch A. Use four outputs and go to:
- 4x8 WNC multiswitch B, which provides first 8 outputs.
- 4x8 WNC multiswitch C gets fed by four remaining outputs of multiswitch A, and gives you 8 more outputs.
So, that is 16 outputs, from inexpensive and powered multiswitches.
Takes a little cabling but pretty simple.
Mostly, plug 'n repeat.

 

[Cadsulfide]

Or, you could go with bandstacked lnb's and use 3 DP34's (low cost), that would leave you with one input port for a third satellite.

 

[Anole]

I wouldn't recommend bandstacked to an inexperienced FTAer. Too much extra complication.
Also, I think you'd need four DP34's; they have four outputs each, and you can't use the expansion outputs and select your LNB.
Then, there's the problem of powering all the switches; FTA receivers are a bad choice, and you'd have to guarantee all four switches had a live receiver * plugged into 'em.
I might build such a system, but I'd never help anyone else debug it.

edit:
* make that a power inserter.

 

[Mr Tony]

the DP34 switches can only be daisy chained 3 times last I checked...I think the max is 12 receivers

But will the SSO handle a bandstacked LNB properly?

 

[Anole]

I am modfying a system that I have installed in a language school.
I currently have a 1m dish pointing at G19 @ 97w and we are feeding 12 SatHawk recievers through a multi-switch.

The customer wants to add SES-1 @ 101w and be able to see all the channels from both satellites on all of the recievers plus about 5 or 6 additional ones to be added later.

I already have the second dish to go on the roof. I know that I will need to add/replace LNBs, cable and/or switches.
I THINK that I know what I need, but I am posting this as an open question for recomendations for the LNBs, number of cables needed, and multi-switch(es).

Please be specific about, types, Make and Models, and Venders if possible. (Web links are appreciated.)

Well, with the professional nature of your situation, Iceberg's suggestion with the commercial 5x16 switch makes the most sense.
Here, we mostly build our own systems, and saving money is a major goal.
Still, I did find you an Eagle Aspen 4x16 for about $150,.

I was doing a search for 4x24 or 5x24 multiswitches.
You can find them on Amazon UK, but they're expensive.
If you search, you may find Hong Kong wholesalers; disregard them.

There are some 32 receiver switches for DirecTV, but I don't think they'll work (and were very expensive)
So, if you find a switch you like, post a link to it here and let us review it for you.

You already know you'll need four coaxes from the roof to the multiswitch.
Compression connectors, not the crimp-on is what we all use, and are mandatory for a professional install.

As for dual output LNBs, I don't see anything particularly demanding or critical.
Two that come to mind are the GeoSatPro SL2, and the WSI 522.

What sort of switch, dish, and LNB are you currently using?

 

[Tron]

the DP34 switches can only be daisy chained 3 times last I checked...I think the max is 12 receivers

But will the SSO handle a bandstacked LNB properly?

I'm using the Eagle Aspen B1SAT stacked C-Band LNB for 87W. There's a L.O. setting for 5750. On Ku-Band, I'm using a Superdish FSS stacked LNB with the L.O. at 10750 on 125W. Of course, I have to delete the duplicate transponders and channels, since there's no way to select H or V only on a scan. Wouldn't recommend stacked on the SSO to someone just starting out in the hobby.

 

[Tech#344]

Thank you for the advice. I would like to know more about band stacked LNBs. The dish (soon to be dishes) is located on the roof ten floors up and I already have a dual cable running up there and it would be a pain to run a second pair up there. Cadsulfide you said I could use DP34s. As a dishnetwork Retailer, I have a fair amount of dish equipment just sitting around. Also, you can stack more than 3 DP34's, you are just not SUPPOSED to, it causes system reliability issues. I saw an installation one at a nursing home that had EIGHT DP34s trunked together. Could I use a dish network FSS lnb from a 121 superdish or is there a fta lnb that would work? Also will the SatHawk receivers read the band stacked signal?

EDIT: The equipment that is currently using is a 2x12 http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/JVI/JVI-35STV12MS.htmhttp://www.satelliteguys.us/member.php?u=120980 and a standard dual lnb http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/S/KUL2-Sadoun-Standard-Dual-LNBF.htm

P.S. the reason I used SatHawks is because that is what the costumer wanted.

 

[Anole]

I think all the bandstacked questions were answered above except one: Superdish LNB.
Yes. Should work fine.
But, you'll need to mate it to a proper feedhorn that matches the dish you use.
If ya have some old Primestars, either round or elliptical, the Dish FSS LNB fits right on.
For other common dishes, the round feed from a SuperDish 105 might work okay.

And I'd like to emphasize that if I were to go this way, I'd absolutely use power inserters on each DP-34, output #1.

edit:
Sounds like you have most all the equipment on hand to try the bandstacked idea.
Give it a try and see how it works.
If you have trouble, then the other ideas in this thread should work for ya.

 

[Mr Tony]

If you have a bunch of DP34's then I'd use the bandstacked idea

Also, you can stack more than 3 DP34's, you are just not SUPPOSED to, it causes system reliability issues.

so I was kinda right

 

[Cadsulfide]

The DN FSS lnb bolts up to a number of C120 feedhorns. I use a surplus 19V laptop power supply to heat up the switches. If you have a pile of Dish stuff, then DP34's with SW21's can give you 6 satellite inputs total with no trouble at all.

 

[Tech#344]

Do you have a suppler for the feedhorns? I can only find one feedhorn (Global Invacom - Product) repeated over and over again.

 

[pendragon]

Superdish feeds will work. The ones for 105W are much better than hacking off the 121W feed from the 119W. If you have a bunch of DN parts lying around, you can do even better by chopping off a DP dual feed from the LNB. I wrote a thread about this some time ago.

 

[Tech#344]

All I have are 121 arrays, 105 super dishes weren't in my area, but I wasn't planing to brake out the hack saw. The electronics are just held on by four screws so I was planing on just detaching it and reattaching a different feedhorn. I have a couple of junk LNBs I think I can borrow the feedhorns off of, but if I did not say this earlier I am doing this as a professional installation at a language school NOT as a hobby in my back yard, so I want a matching set of quality feedhorns.

P.S. Pendragon I could not find the thead you mentoined if you would post a link it would be much appreaciated.

 

[Anole]

I don't recall what dishes you were using.
If you had an elliptical Primestar (or later version of same), then the feedhorn on the left of this picture is what it would have.
Notice that it has a DN FSS LNB mounted to it.
To the upper right, is the original DN 105 feedhorn.
I'm sure if you shop around and search, you can scrounge up a couple of them.
Maybe even from someone here on the forum.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachments/61487d1296964060-lnb-placement-primestarhorndishfsslnb-jpg

 

[pendragon]

P.S. Pendragon I could not find the thead you mentoined if you would post a link it would be much appreaciated.

The link is:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...4-bandstacked-shootout-why-amps-good-bad.html

but it sounds like you don't want to go to the trouble. Reasonably priced and commercially available C120-compatible feeds are few and far between. The Sadoun bandstacked LNBF ($29) is a decent alternative to the approach you're taking, but the LOs are different from the Superdish LNBs.

 

[Tech#344]

Thank you every one for all the advice. I talked to the customer yesterday, he decided to go with the superdish LNBs and 4 DP34 switches. I feel most comfortable with this any ways, because I have had much more experience with DishNetwork equipment. The installation won't happen until the snow melts off the roof in a couple of weeks but when it does I'll make sure to post pictures


Pendragon there is one other thing I want to say about the Superdish LNBs. When Dish first started manufacturing them they had problems with quality control so much so that they issued recalls on lot numbers P310, P311, P312, P410, P411, and P412. Through Experience I have found that lots P30-P45 are also usually bad also. Lots P50+ and the Q lots are much better.

 

[Tech#344]

I've started working on the custom feed horns. I started by opening a bunch of old LNBs and got lucky I found a legacy quad where the feedhorn can be unscrewed from the LNB (pic#1). Because of this I've decided to take part of the Superdish feedhorn (pic#2) separate the round tube and thread it so that the piece from the legacy quad threads on. Before I get to carried away I want to ask if there is an optimal length for the feedhorn?