rain fade has been terrible today! (1 Viewer)

GeneWildershair

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 28, 2004
521
0
Bay Area
I have been receiving great 96 quality signals, but as soon as it started raining today, it goes down to the low 70's, and the picture starts breaking uo bad!It's Worse on some channels, but still can't enjoy anything on any of them. Such a shame that VOOM signals are so sketchy when it rains. I am glad I still have my Directv, so the wife, and kids can still enjoy some tv in the rain. :(
 

BlackHitachi

Medford Oregon
Supporting Founder
Oct 17, 2003
4,791
0
Medford, Oregon
Same here in Oregon!! Light rains at that.. I just think its going to be like this for us west coasters?? I hope not but my signal was 85 then the light rains came droped to a 70 to 68 and i could not watch any thing but my two locols.. Turned on dish and working.. Hope this rain stops before my wife gets home i dont wanna here it.. :shocked
 

GeneWildershair

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 28, 2004
521
0
Bay Area
BlackHitachi said:
Same here in Oregon!! Light rains at that.. I just think its going to be like this for us west coasters?? I hope not but my signal was 85 then the light rains came droped to a 70 to 68 and i could not watch any thing but my two locols.. Turned on dish and working.. Hope this rain stops before my wife gets home i dont wanna here it.. :shocked

yeah, it's light rain here too. Jeez, this is terrible!
 

Gr8Reb8

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 8, 2004
204
0
So it looks like the current cut-off is at about 70. With the previous software the cut-off was at about 30. The new software simply changed the scale, not the actual quality users would get.
 

Mr. Biggles

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Mar 6, 2004
502
0
On the east coast here.

Rain early in the week (not heavy in the least) created intermittent break-up. Funny thing though is that last week we had a big snow storm and only during the heaviest snowfall did it break-up.

Go figure.

Bill
 

Taron1

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 12, 2003
60
0
Light rain in Northern California, signal went from 89 to 55, which means no satellite channels at all.

Voom please help, I'm almost at the end of the thirty days.
 

Ken F

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 8, 2004
717
0
If you want protection against rainfade, regardless of your satellite service, you are going to need a larger dish. As before, the apparent weather directly over your house isn't necessary the same as the weather in your line of sight.
 

compurocker

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 25, 2004
70
0
Aurora, IL
I hope it gets better. I just signed up for VOOM and my wife is going to kill me if the rain/snow/wind here in Chicago interferes too much. We're used to analog cable. Does the weather affect the OTA as well or just the Satellite?
 

GeneWildershair

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 28, 2004
521
0
Bay Area
Taron1 said:
Ken, Directv with the same size dish but you can still watch TV.

Yeah, I used to have an 18" dish with Directv for years,and never experienced any break ups during heavy rain, and I can remember signals getting down in the mid 60's sometimes, with no signs of trouble. VOOM needs to do something about this. I haven't installed the larger dish, as I'm still on the fence about it. Besides, we really shouldn't have to spend the extra money just to enjoy VOOM thru light rain. VOOM should be taking care of this problem! It's rediculous to just rescale the terrible signal quality to make it seem as if your getting as strong a signal as the other sat providers, but facts are that we're not! C'mon now, bad pixelation, and drops in the 70's??? That should be decent quality. at least it is with the other sat providers. :rolleyes:
 

Ken F

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 8, 2004
717
0
Taron and Gene,

I haven't had DirecTV in a long time, but when I had it, I would routinely lose my picture during rain storms. Not all the time, but probably a few dozen times over five years. For HDTV, DirecTV now uses a 20" dish and Dish uses a 21" dish, so that may get them a bit more head room for rain fade.

VOOM is probably a bit more susceptible to rain fade because they use 8PSK with a lower FEC rate. 8PSK, which Dish Network is also now using for its HDTV, and what DirecTV will likely use in the future, is more susceptible to rain fade at comparable levels of error correction.

VOOM has capacity for 39 HD channels specifically because they use a 5/6 FEC rate with turbo coding, which gives them ~50Mbps per transponder. This lets them fit three HD channels per each of their 13 transponders with stat mux. Dish Network uses a 2/3 FEC rate with turbo coding, which gives them 39Mbps and change, or space for two HD channels per transponder with a little left over, but with somewhat greater resistance to rain fade, even when accounting for the lower radiated power of their satellite.

VOOM's Rainbow1 satellite may deliver higher power levels on the ground, but this still may not be sufficient to compensate for the low level of error correction during bad weather. It's also possible that the satellite's footprint delivers a slightly better signal--with more resistance to rainfade--to some regions and a lower signal in others. The problem of rainfade is obviously exacerbated when many customers have installs that were not optimally peaked (i.e. at least 50-55 on old scale).

Yeah, I used to have an 18" dish with Directv for years,and never experienced any break ups during heavy rain, and I can remember signals getting down in the mid 60's sometimes, with no signs of trouble. VOOM needs to do something about this. I haven't installed the larger dish, as I'm still on the fence about it. Besides, we really shouldn't have to spend the extra money just to enjoy VOOM thru light rain. VOOM should be taking care of this problem!

There's really nothing VOOM can do about it, because increasing the FEC rate to provide more resistance to rainfade would force them to drop anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 of their HDTV channels. The only solution that doesn't involve elimination of HD channels is a larger dish.

If enough people complain, VOOM will do one of two things. Either they'll develop and deploy a slightly larger dish for new customers, say 20-22", or they'll increase the bandwidth dedicated to error correction and begin dropping a lot of HD channels, or they'll drop a few HD channels and significantly increase the compression (and degrade the picture) on the rest.

For prospective VOOM customers that are worried about rainfade, I would recommend you buy your own compatible 24" or 30" in advance (cost is about $30 + shipping), and have the installer use it instead. VOOM may deploy a slightly larger dish at some point, but until then, customers are on their own.
 

Gr8Reb8

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 8, 2004
204
0
I guess I am just pragmatic about getting a larger (30”) dish. After reading thousands of posts on the Yahoo group, this forum and AVS, I was aware of the complaints and issues regarding programming (repeats) and the STB. I joined as soon as the 0 down deal was offered. I noticed almost immediately that even after re-peaking the dish, I would loose picture or have severe pixilation as soon as it started to snow or rain. For me, it was worth the $60-$70 to get the larger dish. The picture has not dropped due to weather affecting the signal quality. I now have one less thing to annoy me regarding the Voom service. I would like to use the DVI connection, but the Component will suffice until they get DVI fixed. After the latest software update, my box is more stable and channel changing is a little faster (I run at 720p fixed).

For me, the cost of the larger dish was a worth it. I had fun installing it (the techie likes to tinker) and I’m happy with the results.

BTW, as I type this, it is pouring rain outside. Signal quality is down to 96 from 99.
 

shelly

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 19, 2003
271
0
I had an original install signal level of mid 60's, recalibrated to high 90's with the software upgrade, and during VERY light rain last night, my signal dropped to 50's and low 60's and I lost all reception with Voom.

I need a 30" dish but need professional installation. Do I have to pay for this?

Shelly
 

Gr8Reb8

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 8, 2004
204
0
shelly said:
I had an original install signal level of mid 60's, recalibrated to high 90's with the software upgrade, and during VERY light rain last night, my signal dropped to 50's and low 60's and I lost all reception with Voom.

I need a 30" dish but need professional installation. Do I have to pay for this?

Shelly
I do not know. I paid for the dish and installed it myself. Perhaps if you called Voom and explained that you will not accept loosing all reception every time there is a little rain in the air. See what they say. Here where I live, there is cloud and rain about 50% of the year. Getting a good picture only 50% of the time was not an option.
 

Ken F

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 8, 2004
717
0
shelly,

A 24" or 30" dish runs about $30 without the LNB. Shipping cost will vary depending on your distance from the vendor.

VOOM (like Dish and DirecTV) doesn't guarantee service during bad weather, so I'm not sure they would pay for the installer. If the dish is easily accessible, it's not a difficult job. The 24" dish uses the same mast, so it's just a matter of sliding the old dish off and the new one on, and repointing with the elevation and azimuth for your zip code (available on the Internet). The real tedious part is running all the cables, which the installer already did for you. If you can't turn the volume up loud enough to hear the box's signal meter from the dish, you will need a second person inside (a cell phone helps here) watching the point dish screen.
 

Vince2

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 3, 2004
78
0
Portland, OR
I am in Oregon too (Portland) and have lost my signal the past couple days. While I never had a strong signal, I am now in the 70's and lose everything as it frequently dips into the 60's. I was up on the roof last night and this morning trying to manuever the dish (a 24"-er) to no avail. The best I could do was 75 (at peaks, 65 at valleys of fluctuation). I have no idea what the solution could be to this problem, but I have an installer coming out again tomorrow....I'll let you know if we find anything useful. Those past few weeks of exceptional weather were the only times I could watch Voom without breakup. We may be in real trouble here in the rain forest.
 

Vince2

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 3, 2004
78
0
Portland, OR
BTW: I purchased my own signal strength meter that connects in-line and correlates well with the readings at the box...it really helps in adjusting the dish while on the roof.
 

wbuffetta

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 18, 2004
305
0
I Live In Portland OR and Yesterday It Rained a Lot. I Watched VOOM Last Night
And My Clear Sky Signal Of 93 Never Went Below 80 to 81. The Picture Never Went Out. My Dish Has A Clear View Of The East So Maybe Thats Why I was Lucky. In Portland We Get Alot Of Rain But Not Real Thick Clouds. In Over 4 Years Of Having Directv I Have Only Lost Signal 4 Times (Twice By Snow & Twice By Heavy Rain)
 

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