Restoring 10ft dish

Andyboy90

Andyboy90

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Aug 14, 2018
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Here are some pictures of my project. The pole is anchored down with a ratchet tie down rope hammered into the ground onto tent pegs. The pole stands perfectly 90 degrees plumb all around. Will be moving to pouring concrete on my next day off (Sunday) :)

AD9-E2-B5-F-F75-A-4-FAE-BB47-8-D7-A127-FE787.jpg

F101-F634-0326-4-AE3-86-CC-11-A81-C4-ABCD1.jpg
 
Andyboy90

Andyboy90

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Aug 14, 2018
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Edmonton, Canada
one of the way to avoid that is to do how I said in post #14.
Another way, perhaps, is to permanently use straps like those you have now.
I wish I could go the post #14 route but I cannot spend anymore money on this project as I have already spent more than I anticipated. The other reason is that winter is approaching really fast here and having a full-time job doesn’t leave me with a lot of free time to work on this. Perhaps I will give more thought to the strap ideas. I can drill some holes on the pole and install 3 or 4 guy wires holding the pole in place. Why do you think the pole will move though? Does it happen to everyone. I see on this forum that majority of folks here do it with installing the pole in the ground same way I did and i dont see them complaining
 
ftageekyyc

ftageekyyc

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Just my opinion from having lived in this area for 60 years. Dug many post holes, dealt with frozen water/waste pipes here at the cabin, and done some environmental well drilling throughout the province during my last career.

For a 12 foot pole, a 4 foot depth is a reasonable decision in the Edmonton area. Depending on exactly where you are, lots of cobble and clay to deal with to get any deeper. If the soil conditions allow you to get deeper and still have enough height above the ground for the dish to move properly, give it a shot.

To get below the frost line in the coldest years the base of the pole would have to be 7 to 8 feet down.
 
RimaNTSS

RimaNTSS

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Aug 9, 2013
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Does it happen to everyone. I see on this forum that majority of folks here do it with installing the pole in the ground same way I did and i dont see them complaining
That, for sure happens to everyone, I mean pole becoming not plumb but it is not about degrees, just a fraction of degree. Fpr C-band reception that will not be so important. But keep in mind that if pole is not plumb you will never be able to adjust polar-mount perfectly, especially if pole not plumb in E-W direction.
 
JFOK

JFOK

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Aug 12, 2012
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Andyboy90,

I don't profess to have all the knowledge others here have.
However, I've never had a pole issue since I got into this hobby in 1991.
As long as you attached something akin to a small metal bar or bolt close to the bottom of the pole to keep it from spinning within the cement, you should be fine. I also threw in the hole prior to adding the cement, some small-medium sized rocks for added weight.
Personally I've always attached my satellite pole to a tripod, that way if there is any minor ground shifting you can loosen a few bolts and make adjustments accordingly. I've never had to adjust to this day.
Good Luck.

John
 
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FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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I wish I could go the post #14 route but I cannot spend anymore money on this project as I have already spent more than I anticipated. The other reason is that winter is approaching really fast here and having a full-time job doesn’t leave me with a lot of free time to work on this. Perhaps I will give more thought to the strap ideas. I can drill some holes on the pole and install 3 or 4 guy wires holding the pole in place. Why do you think the pole will move though? Does it happen to everyone. I see on this forum that majority of folks here do it with installing the pole in the ground same way I did and i dont see them complaining
I'm no expert either but I do have three c band dishes and two ku dishes installed. The largest is a 10' motorized SAMI that I put in a few years ago. Four of the five poles, including the one for the SAMI, were installed in a similar way to what you are planning. I used metal stakes driven into the ground with antenna guy wire and turnbuckles equally spaced in three spots to plumb everything before pouring. I left the guy wires on until I was sure it was cured. The post is filled with concrete as well. They are just as plumb today as when they were put in. Here are a couple of pics during/after an install (thumbnailed, click for larger).


10ft SAMI Pole 10ft SAMI Pole 2

Whatever you do I wish you good luck! :)
 
Andyboy90

Andyboy90

Thread Starter
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Aug 14, 2018
150
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Edmonton, Canada
Just my opinion from having lived in this area for 60 years. Dug many post holes, dealt with frozen water/waste pipes here at the cabin, and done some environmental well drilling throughout the province during my last career.

For a 12 foot pole, a 4 foot depth is a reasonable decision in the Edmonton area. Depending on exactly where you are, lots of cobble and clay to deal with to get any deeper. If the soil conditions allow you to get deeper and still have enough height above the ground for the dish to move properly, give it a shot.

To get below the frost line in the coldest years the base of the pole would have to be 7 to 8 feet down.
Its good to hear from someone who knows about the area. I cut the pole down to 10ft because the longer the pole above the ground the more force exerted by the wind. 6 ft above ground seemed reasonable and would also hide it better from neighbours. If the pole shifts I can always redo it next year. I am not the one to run away from labour intensive jobs.
 
Andyboy90

Andyboy90

Thread Starter
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Aug 14, 2018
150
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Edmonton, Canada
Andyboy90,

I don't profess to have all the knowledge others here have.
However, I've never had a pole issue since I got into this hobby in 1991.
As long as you attached something akin to a small metal bar or bolt close to the bottom of the pole to keep it from spinning within the cement, you should be fine. I also threw in the hole prior to adding the cement, some small-medium sized rocks for added weight.
Personally I've always attached my satellite pole to a tripod, that way if there is any minor ground shifting you can loosen a few bolts and make adjustments accordingly. I've never had to adjust to this day.
Good Luck.

John
I installed a heavy duty U- clamp close to the bottom of the pole to keep it from spinning
 
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Titanium

Titanium

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May 23, 2013
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Having installed thousands of dishes, I will share that there is a best practices method and a dozen other ways that will probably work fine for many years. I would mostly be concerned that the amount of the cement pour around the post is inadequate unless the soil is compacted or heavy clay.

As long as the hole has been enlarged at the bottom (in a teardrop shape), it is dug deep enough to be below the frost line, enough cement for the soil conditions / typical wind loading and a tab or through-bolt is encased to prevent the mast from rotating in the cement, your mast will likely remain plumb and true for many years. If the post begins to lean at some point, then worry about adding anchors and turnbuckles.
 
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Titanium

Titanium

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Soon I will be proceeding to installation of panels on the mount. What is the best way of doing this. Should I join the 4 panels first then install them on the mount all together or install one panel at a time on the mount.

Best to assemble the panels face down on a known perfectly level surface. Support the center of the dish with a 5 gallon bucket or similar object to a height matching the depth of the reflector. This will help form a perfect parabola as the panels are bolted together and attached to the polar mount ring. Once the panels are bolted together and attached to the polar mount ring, flip the dish over (turtle), then string test with at least 4 or more strings from panel edge to opposing panel edge. Confirm the strings are lightly touching each other as they cross in the center. If there is a gap between the strings, the panels are not bolted together correctly and not forming a perfect parabola.

It is very difficult to mount the panels on the polar mount ring and form a perfect parabola when the polar mount is already mounted on top of the post. It can be done, but it adds one more frustration.
 
ftageekyyc

ftageekyyc

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Pub Member / Supporter
I cut the pole down to 10ft

Looking at the picture of your yard, you probably have at least 3 1/2 feet of undisturbed clayey silt or silty clay. Pretty good ratio for a 10 foot pole. Usually the developers strip off the 18 to 24 inches of good topsoil, then put back 4 to 6 inches. If you follow the recommendations from the experienced folks who have installed poles to be sure your installation doesn't move within the new hole, I don't think you will have to worry about the ground around it shifting.
 
primestar31

primestar31

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Last year I put up a 7.5ft SAMI dish. I used an 11' pole, 4 feet in the ground, 18" hole at top of ground, oval cut on one side, and belled at the bottom. 1 bag of gravel leveled in the bottom for ground water drainage, and a heavy metal plate in the center that the pole sits on before pouring cement (so it can't sink) I used 980 POUNDS of cement. I mixed it, and did this all by hand, AND I had a broken rib at the time! Yeah, I'm addicted, (and a bit OCD) lol. I have softer sandy-loamy soil, and high average winds so went overboard. It hasn't budge a millimeter, nor do I expect it to ever do so.

You can read my thread (further in for C-band install as I wasn't sure if my new property could work for satellite reception) for ideas if you like. I installed my first C-band dish in 1984, and this one is my 6th C-band dish install from 1984 - 2018.

So, I know how to get the job done right, and every bit of info is useful to somebody.

I'll take "Name that satellite" for $500 please! HELP!
 
M

mikekohl

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Jun 4, 2004
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Brian (Titanium) has given some excellent advice, overlapping what I said and providing a lot of added details. Having grown up in North Dakota, being one of the first in Alaska to install large C-band dishes in the 80s, and working around the world in a great variety of climate conditions, I feel fairly qualified to make suggestions. Here's one that I learned the hard way in Seward, Alaska. I was fighting with a 12-foot Paraclipse and about 8 feet of pipe above ground, assuming I could dig a four foot hole. I hit solid rock everywhere at about 30 inches, and it was not particularly level, and I did not have a jackhammer to modify the hole. So I foolishly poured the cement, and added a little lip to the outer edge of the pour, hoping the added weight would increase the stability. To my surprise it ending up working like an inverted egg. You would shift the pole off plumb by at least 5 degrees or more every time that you motorized from 139 to 91 West (our view from there). The weight of the dish would mess up the pole, and it would literally shift like an egg out of balance. After a month of attempting solutions, my customer found a friend a few miles away that was interested in C-band (this was 1984), and took it off his hands at most of the cost. I donated my labor to align the new installation (new owner took the pole out and installed it in a more suitable location), and my reputation was salvaged. The thought of you attempting to correct things with solid rock jogged my memory, and while you will have better results four feet down, pay attention to everyone's advice and err on the side of caution.
Heavy guy wire cable with suitable turnbuckles (3 or 4) to balance the pipe would be a suggestion I would add, but make sure that if you need to go there, it is done before the ground freezes. Additional outriggers can be less than reliable if put in at the advent of freezeup. Good luck!
 
Andyboy90

Andyboy90

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Aug 14, 2018
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Edmonton, Canada
Having installed thousands of dishes, I will share that there is a best practices method and a dozen other ways that will probably work fine for many years. I would mostly be concerned that the amount of the cement pour around the post is inadequate unless the soil is compacted or heavy clay.

As long as the hole has been enlarged at the bottom (in a teardrop shape), it is dug deep enough to be below the frost line, enough cement for the soil conditions / typical wind loading and a tab or through-bolt is encased to prevent the mast from rotating in the cement, your mast will likely remain plumb and true for many years. If the post begins to lean at some point, then worry about adding anchors and turnbuckles.
I have widened the hole from the bottom. The frost line in my city can go upto 8ft in colder months as mentioned by ftaggeekyyc and there is no way I can dig even close to that. At this point I will go with 4 ft hole and wish for the best. If the pole moves I can always pull it out and do it RimaNTSS's way next summer.
 
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Andyboy90

Andyboy90

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Aug 14, 2018
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Edmonton, Canada
Heavy guy wire cable with suitable turnbuckles (3 or 4) to balance the pipe would be a suggestion I would add, but make sure that if you need to go there, it is done before the ground freezes.
I agree with yours and Brian's suggestions and see myself leaning more towards the guy wire solution.My only gripe is that I have a normal city sized backyard and adding guys wires would take more space but I'll do it if I have to. Once I am done with the dish installation I will start looking into this.
 
Andyboy90

Andyboy90

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Aug 14, 2018
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Edmonton, Canada
I finally poured the concrete. I had to move the pole a little bit to centre it perfectly in the hole. The digital angle gauge measures 89.9 to 90 degrees all around and at some places it goes down to 89.8 degrees but the pole surface is not 100% smooth. Is this good enough or should I try to make it perfect 90 degrees all around. The weather is forecasted as some light rain during the next 24 hours and the temperature will be staying on the colder side around 10C. I have duct taped tarp around the pole at bottom to avoid rain diluting the concrete. I will wait about 24 hours and install the dish around the same time tomorrow.
 
Andyboy90

Andyboy90

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Aug 14, 2018
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Edmonton, Canada
I looked up the quikrete 1101 spec page and it says “Curing should be started as soon as possible and should continue for a period of 5 days in warm weather at 70F (21C) or higher or 7 days in colder weather at 50 - 70F (10 - 21C)”. As I mentioned in my previous post temperature here will staying around 10C for next few days so maybe I’ll have to wait :(
 
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