RV Park "cable" question

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nitelife222

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Original poster
Jun 8, 2011
7
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USA
Hello,

I am new to FTA. And I am looking into building an RV park. It will be in an area where cable is out of the question. And the "dish" companies are out of their mind as far as pricing for a commercial system goes. So in my research for an alternative. I ran across FTA.

My question is. Is it possible to use a few Ku and C band dishes. Hooked to receivers. (one for each channel needed) Then each receiver sent to a combiner. Then out to the customer.

I think my theory sounds good. Just dont know if its possible without one of the high dollar hospitality "cable" routing systems.

Thanks in advance!

Trey
 
So long as you pipe real FTA (not subscription) programming and don't charge for it, I suspect that'd be clean.
At least if you are a small operation.
If you become the biggest park in the state, making lots of money, I'm sure someone will try to tap your cashflow. :)

There are threads here on the forum where members have described their own or others setups.
I'm sure with the available info, you can put something together.
How professional it need be, I don't know.
But if you want rack-mount receivers et al, contact Brian at SatelliteAV or look at his web site (top of any page).
He/they are gold sponsors here (but this is a personal recommendation, 'cause he gets the job done) :up
 
I second all of Anole's post. Particularly about talking with Brian. He has rack mount equipment and agile modulators to send the signal out over cable. Some channels will not want you to use their feeds and I think he can direct you to those who will allow you to; and maybe will also encourage you in using their signal (TBN).
What part of the country are you considering setting up? ((If you do not want to respond to that? on forum, PM me.) POP)
 
From a PM I got, he is close to me here in Pistol Pete Territory. We do have more lakes than any other state and more shoreline than the Atlantic and Gulf Coast combined, so there are also lots of places for rv parks too. My brother in law has been wanting to put one in somewhere near our lake house at Ft Gibson for a couple of years, but finding the right spot and not getting swamped with permits or county restrictions has been tough. Not to mention trying to be close enough for convenience but not be on land under the control of the Corp of Engineers. Most of the RV'ers I see around the lakes usually have a tripod setup for Dish or Directv. My buddy leaves his 5th Wheel on a site year round at Longbay near Taylors Ferry on Ft Gibson and I set him up with a Directv Dish on a 3ft Mast in a bucket with concrete that he can pull out when he is there and push back under the rv when he is gone. I pounded a couple of stakes in the ground and then outlined them in marker on the bucket, so he knows exactly where to put it when he brings his receiver with him.
 
Yeah no hacking here. I was thinking History, Bio, Retro, Tuff, PBS HD, Ion, And few of the christian channels. And I have seen a few others that looked promising. I can see the system in my head. And I think it will work. Initial cost around $150 a channel maybe a bit more. Will have about 12 channels. Will grab the local stations from OTA. Since we have bad weather here on occasion. It would be good to have the locals for the weather.

The satellite av site has the combiner that gave me the last part of the idea. I knew it could be done. But thought I needed and expensive hospitality system.

OSU is right. It will most likely be in the pete state. As to where... I have some ideas. But nothing set in stone yet. I have been enjoying my first day here on the site. Its a breath of fresh air to be on a forum that isnt a bunch a a$$ clowns playing games!
 
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Depending on which OTA area you end up in, you could pull RTV, ThisTv, Ion, The Country Network and The Cool Tv, in with the OTA. Antenna Tv is in OKC but not Tulsa. I'm not sure what is in the Lawton area. Ada just has the normal networks.
 
I would think you would have to get a letter from each station you are going to use for their approval, as this is not just for your own personal use. Also if you charge for a RV site with the cable included, is that not paying for the service? Even if you do not charge for the service, how is it different from a cable provider?
 
I would not be charging for it. It would be free to them if they wanted to use it. As most rvers have their own satellite. Not a lot would use it. I just want to have the option for the ones that do. I am sure if I write to each channel most if not all would not have a problem with it. As it would not be much different than having multiple tv sets in one house.
 
I think just providing a good reliable OTA option would help many. Especially with all the subchannels available now. I know it gets harder to pull in OTA reliably without a good outdoor setup if you are at say Eufaula Lake or Tenkiller Lake instead of Lake Ft Gibson.
 
Yeah I agree OSU. Just looking into all my options. So I can serve my future customers! I have not even mentioned the sat internet for the wifi in the park. There goes an arm an a leg every month! LOL
 
To install a non encrypted analog commercial quality system using a free standing rack, MPEG2 DVBS rack mount receivers, a 1.2M dish, NTSC frequency agile modulators, a combiner and launch amplifier, plan on spending about $500 - $700 for the first channel and and $300 each additional channel. Local channel insertions would cost about the same if down converted to SD NTSC analog. You could even use a laptop with PowerPoint and a TV out card to create your own RV channel for your guests with local events calendar, weather forecast, etc. Maybe use a local Radio station as audio. This would guests a reason to connect your system even if they have other TV programming options.

The cost per channel could be lowered by using set top boxes for the satellite and the terrestrial receivers, but STBs are designed to have the channels frequently changed. They are not designed to sit on one channel 24/7. A STB left on a single channel 24/7 will usually start having decoding or lip sync issues. Guess you could address that by putting a timer on the system to shut all STBs off every evening for 30 seconds, but no reliable solution. Fixed channel modulators will also lower your initial cost, but then you are committed to placing a channel on a predetermined channel number and may have to replace the fixed channel modulator with another channel modulator if there is interference, either from electrical devices or new TV channels, FM radio stations, etc.

It is always a good idea to use commercial quality frequency agile modulators when combining multiple modulators. Consumer grade modulators usually don't work well as the frequencies start to interfere (herringbone or zigzag lines) with each other and overlap if the channels are located on adjacent channels. Great for a few channels and short distances, but not recommended for what you are proposing. BTW. I would love to sell you frequency agile modulators, but they have been a dime a dozen for used units on eBay in past years as more cable head ends transition away from analog NTSC to QAM.

Local terrestrial digital TV channels could simply be reinserted into the distribution, but that would provide a mix of digital and analog channels and require the modulators to be run on UHF/VHF channels instead of CATV frequencies. This type of system would need to be well constructed due to the potential signal leakage in and out! You would want to avoid using specific channels that could cause interference to local aviation frequencies and TV / FM radio broadcasters.

It would be least expensive to down convert the terrestrial digital off air channels to analog CATV frequencies. It would be very expensive if upconverting all satellite and local digital channels to QAM for distribution. Last I checked, a QAM modulator cost is around $800 - $900 per channel! :eek:
 
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My dad is Mr. Gohl! I'm Brian... LOL! :D

Have not received your email, but as long as this thread is on topic and not business, how about we keep it in the public forum so others can benefit from the knowledge base and add their suggestions?
 
Sorry Brian! I always use Mr. or Mrs. until told otherwise. Guess it was just the way I was raised.

Yeah that is not a problem!
 
Wow Brian you were not kidding! I found a Blonder Tongue agile modulator on ebay for 30 bucks. I think it does 3 channels.
 
If you're not going to be providing cable channels that people actually want to watch (AKA PAY channels) I would start out with a master antenna distribution system so everyone can get the local OTA channels.

The easy way is to get a big antenna and lots of inline amps but would require everyone to have a ATSC tuner (which they "should" have) but if you want to cater to those who are still behind the times you'll need to get a ATSC tuner per channel send them out as analog with a distribution system.

$130 per 4 channels. Channel Plus 5445 Four-Channel Video Modulator (5445) - Channel Plus - 5445 - 782644004810
 
Very interesting project here. I'm curious, does anyone know what kind of man hours are required to keep this equipment all up and going? There may be a hidden cost here.
 
Once set, commercial receivers require little attention. Monitor channels daily to assure they are functioning. Possibly power cycle a receiver on an occasion to restore signal lock, etc. The GEOSATpro DSR-R100 series has a unique maintenance function that is used for remote or hands off installations so technicians do not have to be dispatched for the typical head end receiver reboots. Once a day at 2am the receiver automatically enters a maintenance mode for 10 seconds to reboot and reacquire signal.

Maintaining the drops would be the wild card. Type and quality of the coax, fittings, equipment quality and the method of installation will greatly affect the amount of maintenance. Will the distribution be installed by the op or will it be contracted to a local installer with CATV design and build out experience?

Would the main distribution lines be hardline? What distance and how many drops? Above ground or below? Powered for inline amplification? How would above/below ground distribution be protected against traffic and vandalism?

If the distribution is covering a large distance or have hundreds of drops, the op should consider investing in a good distribution meter if planning to self install and maintain. The meter is needed to balance the modulators, adjust the gains and slope in cascading amplifiers, troubleshoot and maintain the distribution.

There is a reason that you see many cable trucks and vans driving around town. They all aren't performing installs! LOL!!!
 
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I would not be charging for it. It would be free to them if they wanted to use it. As most rvers have their own satellite. Not a lot would use it. I just want to have the option for the ones that do. I am sure if I write to each channel most if not all would not have a problem with it. As it would not be much different than having multiple tv sets in one house.

One problem I see here, is that some of the channels that are FTA do not originate with the broadcaster (for example, History and Bio, which are re-broadcast by the Hotel Networks) and are technically "not for our eyes". Writing to them may cause them to become encrypted. When you get closer to setting up your system, Brian can tell you which ones are "safe" to contact, and which ones to avoid.
 
You said it better than I did, Keith. Thanks.
POP
One problem I see here, is that some of the channels that are FTA do not originate with the broadcaster (for example, History and Bio, which are re-broadcast by the Hotel Networks) and are technically "not for our eyes". Writing to them may cause them to become encrypted. When you get closer to setting up your system, Brian can tell you which ones are "safe" to contact, and which ones to avoid.
 
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