SES1 at 101W: Gone? (1 Viewer)

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cyberham

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Jun 16, 2010
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I know it can't be gone. But today all transponders are dead to me: Pentagon, BVN, TRWAM. Pentagon is always about 25% quality but reliable. I've swung dish and nothing. Satellites to either side of 101W are normal for me. Anybody explain what's happened?

Added: SES1 is back. I guess near a footprint's edge, atmospherics can change reception conditions. I tweaked the motor also.
 
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oblio

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All are up on 101w, getting 72+ quality in medium rain (so maybe have a bit of rain fade).

How's the weather, maybe its your atmospherics? Wonder in anyone else in NS can give you a quality reading to compare to so you can isolate if its you or the way it is for your dish size.

Understanding you are in a more fringe reception area for 101, have you verified that your post is best possible vertical as this sounds like a skew issue? I found that I set up mine up without the weight of the dish on it and then it leaned forward. Had to readjust after the weight was on it and also then adjust the elevation. Have you also re-verified you true south...mine is 79 w but can't get that sat so had to guess, and then used my e 61.5 and and w 125 limit sats to fine tune by optimizing both ends of the arc. NBC Mux on 72W and RTA on 83w have been my best mid arc references. I've also done a lot of diseq bumping to get all my sats just right.
 

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Yeah at 25% quality it won't take much to lose it.
 

brex2001

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Jul 14, 2009
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From some of your other posts I believe you're exploring going up to a 1.2M or larger dish & that your cable run is quite long(200ft?). A line amplifier may help with the long run loss(item # 170710868666 on fleabay, make an offer, what can they do, say no?). If the quality of signal is low because your on the fringe of reception a larger dish is the next indicated step.
Which of the 2 LNBs listed in your signature are for reception of the 101 sat? Are your coax connections clean & corrosion free at the dish?
 
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cyberham

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... have you verified that your post is best possible vertical as this sounds like a skew issue?

NBC Mux on 72W and RTA on 83w have been my best mid arc references. I've also done a lot of diseq bumping to get all my sats just right.

Visually checked everything today. Easier to do when the snow is gone. I don't have a pole; I have a mini-tower with mast as shown in avatar. The bad is that it is a little difficult to get the mast perfectly vertical. The good is that I am able to adjust, if necessary, to make the mast more vertical. The motor makes it simple to bump a little at any time to help. Most of SES1 is back. I think atmospherics play a role too. 72W is not receivable here; outside that footprint for my 39-inch dish. Also I have no DVB-S2 receiver. RTV on 83W and Patient on 87W are my best regular broadcasters to my south. There is a strong transponder with steady carrier active almost all the time on H2 at 74W (11812 H 13226) that is great for dish alignment.
 

whatchel1

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I hit it very strong bird yesterday while looking for 103. It also has Pentagon ch listed as being on it but mostly only NBC on the rest of the bird.
 

cyberham

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...A line amplifier may help with the long run loss(item # 170710868666 on fleabay, make an offer, what can they do, say no?). If the quality of signal is low because your on the fringe of reception a larger dish is the next indicated step.
Which of the 2 LNBs listed in your signature are for reception of the 101 sat? Are your coax connections clean & corrosion free at the dish?
Will only go to 1.2m if I can "come across one", no plans to buy. 1.2m would help, but most satellites I can receive are good enough quality now with 1m. Similar strategy for a C-band dish. I have a small line amplifier rated to 1GHz from a former cable TV installation. Not sure if it would be suitable for satellite work. It has 3 ports: RF in, RF out, Voltage in. Unfortunately I can't find the associated voltage transformer that plugged into AC power.

Now using the universal LNB with 0.3dB spec. The other standard LNB is 0.6dB, so I figured I'd stick with the universal. Connections are fine; cables are almost new and have been indoors mostly.

FYI, Pentagon is now solid 29% again. TRWAM and BVN nice at 28% now. This improvement may be partly due to a little work I did on making the mast closer to perfectly vertical today.

No History today. Life on the edge.
 
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brex2001

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Any line amp you choose would have to operate in the L band, from 950 to 1450 Mhz at the least.

What is the stability of the universal lnb? +/_ xxx kHz?
 

cyberham

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Any line amp you choose would have to operate in the L band, from 950 to 1450 Mhz at the least.

What is the stability of the universal lnb? +/_ xxx kHz?
I don't think my line amp is suitable due to its upper cutoff; it was designed for cable applications.

The universal LNB is designed for operation from 10.7 to 12.75GHz. It seems to work fine. I got it since it was available (local pickup), inexpensive, and I thought I might use it for Telstar 12 at 15W. But the lower frequency transponders on that satellite have a footprint only over Europe.
 

brex2001

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Just throwing some things out there to consider: the loss in the long cable run you're already aware of; the gain of the dish antenna you're already aware of; you're satisfied with the frequency stability of the LNB(F).
I mentioned the frequency stability of the LNB because there has been discussion in the past about being able to lock onto weak signals with a better quality, more stable LNB.
But then you'd need all the rest to make it work:feedhorn, waveguide for 2 LNBs & the 2 LNBs for H & V polarities. And switches. ad nauseum. Ha ha.

Happy hunting for your bigger dish(es).
 
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whatchel1

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Will only go to 1.2m if I can "come across one", no plans to buy. 1.2m would help, but most satellites I can receive are good enough quality now with 1m. Similar strategy for a C-band dish. I have a small line amplifier rated to 1GHz from a former cable TV installation. Not sure if it would be suitable for satellite work. It has 3 ports: RF in, RF out, Voltage in. Unfortunately I can't find the associated voltage transformer that plugged into AC power.

Now using the universal LNB with 0.3dB spec. The other standard LNB is 0.6dB, so I figured I'd stick with the universal. Connections are fine; cables are almost new and have been indoors mostly.

FYI, Pentagon is now solid 29% again. TRWAM and BVN nice at 28% now. This improvement may be partly due to a little work I did on making the mast closer to perfectly vertical today.

No History today. Life on the edge.
28 to 29 % just isn't gonna cut it. You need a much better SQ than that.
 

whatchel1

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:) What do you mean? I should have a better SQ with this setup...or I need a better setup?
I mean that that level of SQ is way too low. I was picking up 101 yesterday w/a 1 m dish at 90% level and in the 60's on SQ. I'm use a .02 db LNB which is not expense at all. I got 2 for $18. So something isn't right. You aren't on the bird or the LNBF you have isn't worth a damn.
 

cyberham

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... I was picking up 101 yesterday w/a 1 m dish at 90% level and in the 60's on SQ. I'm use a .02 db LNB which is not expense at all. I got 2 for $18. So something isn't right. You aren't on the bird or the LNBF you have isn't worth a damn.

Where are you? I am on the 44dBW line of the footprint. My reference chart indicates a 1.2m dish with a 0.6dB LNB is needed to receive 44dBW. My LNB is 0.3dB, so I figured that's why I am receiving 101W even with a 1m dish.
 

SatelliteAV

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Visually checked everything today. Easier to do when the snow is gone.

You are on the edge of SES1 footprint and not much can be done except to increase your dish size. We recommended all of our SES1 broadcaster partners to move off of SES1 if they required full coverage of North America. SES1 has very poor coverage in the NE US, Atlantic Provinces, Caribbean and Central America. The maps are suggestions of estimated dish size to receive a fully saturated transponder. Some transponders have anomalies that are not accounted for in generalized dish size recommendations.

Don't be fooled with the .1 or .2 printed on a LNBF. This is pure marketing BS! We know the factories where these LNBFs are manufactured and have tested most models in the market. I can assure you that they do not perform to the printed specs. Most are OEM units that the factory will print whatever is requested. You will not notice a difference with a new LNBF if yours is performing well on other satellites.

Have you performed a string test to determine if the dish is warped? A warped dish is almost impossible to see, but will be very obvious when a string is stretched vertical and horizontal edge to edge. The strings should lightly touch in the center. If the strings do not lightly touch, the dish parabola is warped and the reflector is not focusing the captured signal into the LNBF.
 

SatelliteAV

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It is doubtful that your LNBF is anywhere near a 0.3dB NR. The NR of an LNBF has much less effect on the reception of standard DVBS QPSK signals than the dish size. A LNBF can not make-up for lack of signal that is not captured or reflected. Dish size and surface accuracy are much more important factors.

LNBF specs are often embellished to decrease the noise ratio and increase the gain, but there are many other variables in an LNBF performance that are never hyped in marketing. Bottom line is that quality built .8 usually outperforms .1, .2, .3, .4dB NR labeled LNBFs. Wait until more signals go to 8/16psk. Then we will see how well these LNBFs perform!
 

whatchel1

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Sep 30, 2006
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It is doubtful that your LNBF is anywhere near a 0.3dB NR. The NR of an LNBF has much less effect on the reception of standard DVBS QPSK signals than the dish size. A LNBF can not make-up for lack of signal that is not captured or reflected. Dish size and surface accuracy are much more important factors.

LNBF specs are often embellished to decrease the noise ratio and increase the gain, but there are many other variables in an LNBF performance that are never hyped in marketing. Bottom line is that quality built .8 usually outperforms .1, .2, .3, .4dB NR labeled LNBFs. Wait until more signals go to 8/16psk. Then we will see how well these LNBFs perform!
I've heard that line for years that the noise figure is BS. Well if it is BS now it was just as much so years ago. BTW the brand that I have is a WSI. Don't you sell that brand and use their specs?
 
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