Setting up with USALS

[cliffhanger31]

Captive Works CW-700S
Digiwav SG-2100 Motor
Fortec 33" Dish

I am trying to set up a motorized system using USALS. I have watched a Ytube video which said step one is to enter your latitude and longitude, which I did after searching around in the menus. After aiming the dish due south at 110 W satellite ( I am in Tucson, AZ), I reset the Digiwav motor, thinking I would need a starting point for the system. Then I searched for satellites and once found ran a scan for channels. What I discovered is that everything is 2 degrees off. The 97w channels are showing up on a receiver channel listing called 95w and the 93.1 stations are showing up in 91w etc. The instructions for the manual motor settings for the Digiwav motor say twice that your receiver must be turned off to move the motor but when I turn off the receiver, there is no power going to the motor and therefore cannot move. I don't get it. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[cliffhanger31]

One more question, under the motorized system setup screen, I have the following four choices:
Save Position
Go to Position
Go to reference
Go to X.11.0)

and each one has an "ok" button to click on. What do these do?

 

[Jim S.]

I don't have a Captiveworks receiver, but I wouldn't expect to see those options with a USALS setup, but rather with diseqc 1.2. I've never setup diseqc 1.2, so I can't recommend a method to do that. The way to set up USALS is to set your motor to its zero position, then have the receiver move the motor to a satellite (it doesn't have to be your due south satellite, although it can help to try that one first if your elevation setting isn't exact), then manually rotate the motor on the pole, NOT adjust the motor position, to get the highest signal on that satellite. (You should start with the motor manually aimed in the approximate direction, whether it's due south or not, of course. And again, having your elevation correct will be a big help. Some dishes' elevation scales aren't right.)

 

[AcWxRadar]

Cliffhanger,

What is your site longitude coordinate for Tuscon, 110.9°W roughly? That means that 111.1°W ANIK F2 is your truest due south satellite.

111.1.0°W, TP 11769 Vertical SR 3269 is the only TP that I can get FTA channels from in Nebraska, and they are not very strong. But, maybe you can test for this TP on this sat. If you can pull it's signal in, that would be your best satellite to align your dish and motor with. According to the EIRP charts, I am in the same power level coverage area as you are, but I am closer to a stronger signal border and I have a 1.2M dish as well. You are out in the middle of the reception area according to the map. I don't know how weak the real world signal is going to be around Tuscon. You will just have to try it.

You also might try for SatMex 6 @ 113.0°W. That is a few degrees off from your truest south direction, but not too far that you cannot work with it.

Since you say you are 2° off on your alignment, you probably are not getting very good reception from more than a handful of satellites (I expect) and probably only one satellite is exceptional if even that.

You should manually drive your motor until the motor tube (there is a marker of arrow pointer on the tube) aligns with the zero degree mark onthe motor housing (there is a degree scale embossed on the housing on the belly of the motor) and then rest your motor.

Select any satellite of your choice and in the setup menu for that satellite, tell it to use USALS motor control. Then you will have access to enter your latitude and longitude coordinates.

Once you enter these coordinates for any one satellite, the information will be recorded for all satellites that you set up to use USALS with, so this is a one time entry.

Set up your menu to access satellite ANIK F2 @ 111.1°W and enter the TP 11769 Vertical with symbol rate 3269. You may have to enter this data manually if it is not already pre-listed.

If you can, take a small, portable TV and your sat receiver outside to the dish so that you can monitor what you are doing with the dish and motor adjustments first hand. Don't rely on the husband-wife or friend-buddy system to relay signal levels from inside the house out to the person adjusting the dish/motor. It doesn't work! You are best off doing this all yourself, trust me! Not only is the relay thing too difficult, but you really want to see the changes in real time right in front of your own eyes. Some receivers are slow to update the signal and quality strength readings, so this really needs close monitoring.

Now that you have your equipment out in the yard or on the roof and you have it set for the sat and TP I mentioned previously, you can start aligning your dish.

First thing is to set your dish motor's latitude (if you are using a motor) to your site's latitude. Be careful. There are motors with two scales, one reads latitude and one reads elevation. Use the scale marked latitude. Set your dish angle according to the instructions in the dish manual and with assistance from the motor manual. You may need information from both.

Once the motor latitude and dish elevation angles are set as close to the instructions as you can get, then you can start panning the entire assembly on the mast from east to west and back, looking for the signal, this is your azimuth angle. Here, you are rotating the motor bracket on the mast so that you are moving the motor and dish all as one assembly.

Keep all the bolts and nuts and fasteners as tight as needed to prevent the dish and motor from moving except when under your direction and power. You do not want anything to be so loose that it is floppy, since when you tighten the bolts up, it will change your alignment. Just loosen the bolts that are necessary and only enough to move the dish or motor as you need to. Later, when you secure everything, don't tighten much more. Don't crank on everything too hard or you will damage and deform your brackets. Just use common sense and a light touch, you are not putting a tank together for the war!

Seek out the signal that you look for by panning the motor on the mast east and west while monitoring the signal on your system. Very small movements (1/16 of an inch at most) rotation on the mast at a time, then pause and wait. Give your reciever a chance to lock onto any signal that might be there.

Make your way across the field where you expect the satellite to be. No need to go across the entire horizon as you are only seeking one satellite at this time, your true south sat. That sat is only in one spot and you have a fair idea of where due south is from your home, so don't go off panning the rest of the sky as you know that it (that one sat) won't be found outside of that one arc in the sky.

You might pan 10 degrees west and 10 degrees east of a centerline where you perceive true south to be. Somewhere in there, you should hit your desired satellite target. If you don't after two passes, doublecheck your menu setup first. Ensure that you have everything matched up with your LNBF, etc (and don't use any switches while aligning). Then, if you are certain that all menu settings are accurate, raise or lower your dish elevation 1 or 2 degrees and pan the sky once again. Repeat this until you capture a signal.

If you have panned east and west more than +/- 10 degrees from due south (or where you think it should be) and adjusted the dish elevation more than +/-5 degrees from what the intructions told you to set it at and have not detected a signal, STOP! You have more problems besides not being able to locate the satellite. Start over from scratch because you missed somethig important along the way or your equipment is not operating or the signal that you are looking for is not available in your area (too weak or non existant). 99% of the time it is the human error that is the problem. Menu settings, equipment selection compatibility, poor cable connections, etc.

In your case, Cliffhanger, you already know that your equipment is operational. You are getting signals, but your alignment is just off. Remember, this is a mostly DIY thing, so step back and ponder, what would make my sats off 2 degrees or so?

You have all the information at your disposal right here on this site, and you have probably read or at least skimmed most of it... Start from the very beginning and check everything. Doublecheck yourself. Read the FAQ about setting up a motorized dish and see if you can identify your error. You are close to alignment, but just far enough off that even DiSEqC 1.2 won't assist you, so you should be able to pinpoint the error by analyzing your setup and reviewing the FAQ for setting up a KU band motorized dish. Start with the absolute #1 rule in setting up any dish... which is?.....

Fill in this blank please: ____________________

RADAR

 

[Larobpra]

If you have a circular LNB find the pizza pan services at 110, 119, 121, 91, 83 etc. Then switch back to the linear LNB and fine tune from there. Saved me a lot of time on my last motor change. YMMV.

 

[crackt]

move your motor to the zero position and reset it again. you probly reset the zero position to something other than zero. after you reset it then retweak it.

crackt out,.

 

[Phottoman]

Thank you Radar for that excellent reply. Now, if I can put my two cents in, here's what I did.

When I set up this dish I had a CNX DUO, and I was constantly 'adjusting' the aim of the dish from inside. I was getting terrific Q and S from all the sats I aimed at, but always had to use the remote inside to 'adjust' about 2 degrees. As I was reading the OP original I remembered all I went through, and I was given THIS advice, maybe it'll work for the OP.

Go back to where you put in your co-ordinates for the location on your dish. Try resetting the co-ordinates minus two degrees and save. For me, that meant resetting from 114.4 to 112.4.

Try it, it MIGHT save you a lot of hassle. I found for some odd reason that where I live (just outside Kingman, almost due north of you) subtracting that two degrees has worked on the DUO, on the Coolsat 5000, and now on the Openbox HD S9.

Photto

 

[AcWxRadar]

Thank you Radar for that excellent reply. Now, if I can put my two cents in, here's what I did.

When I set up this dish I had a CNX DUO, and I was constantly 'adjusting' the aim of the dish from inside. I was getting terrific Q and S from all the sats I aimed at, but always had to use the remote inside to 'adjust' about 2 degrees. As I was reading the OP original I remembered all I went through, and I was given THIS advice, maybe it'll work for the OP.

Go back to where you put in your co-ordinates for the location on your dish. Try resetting the co-ordinates minus two degrees and save. For me, that meant resetting from 114.4 to 112.4.

Try it, it MIGHT save you a lot of hassle. I found for some odd reason that where I live (just outside Kingman, almost due north of you) subtracting that two degrees has worked on the DUO, on the Coolsat 5000, and now on the Openbox HD S9.

Photto

Photto,

Altering or adjusting the site coordinate parameters in USALS (specifically the longitude) to correct for this offset is fine. But, a person has to be cautious about the circumstances which warrant and allow this correction or adjustment. There are three main sources that I can cite for such an error:

1] The motor is offset on the mast by X°.
2] The motor tube is not referenced to the proper zero position (what it thinks is HOME is actually X° off)
3] The dish's vertical axis is not parallel to the motor tube's vertical axis and is off by X°.

If you can identify the source of the error, you can correct it easily. I would start by checking all alignments from the mast first, as the first rule is always to have a plumb mast. Then work outwards to the dish, step by step and piece by piece. A person may find that none of the three main sources of error were offset by two degrees, but if all were slightly in error and compounded in the same direction, they could add up to this total error. It is therefore important to scrutinize each one highly.

Attempting to get an excellent tracking arc with any or all of these errors could be really messy and frustrating. I recommend being extremely critical from the very start.

RADAR

 

[crackt]

radar is right. software corrections are never a good fix for sloppy mechanics. from the front of the dish, the lnb / dish mount / motor / pipe or pole, should form a perfectly straight line at the zero position.

crackt out,.

 

[AcWxRadar]

One more question, under the motorized system setup screen, I have the following four choices:
Save Position

and each one has an "ok" button to click on. What do these do?

Cliff,

SAVE POSITION is normally associated with DiSEqC 1.2 motor control. There is memory storage in the motor itself. This is factory loaded (normally) for all satellite positions, but you can overwrite the factory positions to accomodate your own system setup. For instance, if you are trying to peak the signal from AMC 9 @ 83.0°W, you can use the DiSEqC 1.2 MOVE commands to step the motor a little to the east or a little to the west and search for the PEAK signal quality reading from a specific TP on 83.0°W. Once you are satisfied with the quality reading, highlight SAVE POSITION and press OK. This will overwrite the factory recorded position for AMC 9 / the satellite at 83.0°W and record your newly found position in its place.

If you ever perform the RESET on your H-H motor (according to your motor manual's instructions), it will erase the new position that you recorded above and reset it to what it was from the factory.

Here poses a question. Why does the factory create a predetermined satellite position list in the first place if you are going to normally overwrite it anyway? This is a very difficult question for me to answer. I simply do not know the answer. It may be rather simple, but not what we expect. I will do more research on this specific topic in the future, but for now you need not worry about it. It really is immaterial to what we are doing. Especially if you use USALS as that information (USALS) is stored within the receiver and overrides any stored satellite postion within the motor.

When using USALS, you only need three basic items.
1] Your site's latitude and longitude coordinates.
2] The satellite's orbital position.
3] Proper alignment of the dish and motor to your dead center, true south or HOME satellite position.

When using USALS, it is critically important to have your dish and motor aligned properly. USALS is a mathematical calculation which uses your site latitude and longitude and the satellite's orbital degre position to tell the motor how far and in which direction to move from the HOME position. Setting up your dish and motor with the proper HOME satellite makes your alignment process for all the other satellites a breeze as you don't need to anything for them at all (normally). The trick is getting your HOME satellite or truest due south satellite aligned perfectly. All other satellite positions are calculated based on that reference position.

Be advised, it is not an official requirement to utilize the HOME satellite (the satellite that is dead center or true south from your position) to get your dish aligned. You can use a satellite that is nearby if a good signal from the HOME satellite is not available or if you have no LOS for the HOME satellite. This will require you to take some additional steps to compensate for the slight error, but it works out the same in the end. It just means extra work at the very start. If you are within one degree, you are really well set.

If the only satellite that you can obtain a signal from is more than one degree away from your HOME satellite, you will have to apply some alternate techniques. You have to pretend that the HOME satellite is where it should be and drive the dish to the nearest satellite to it that you can get a signal from. Adjust your dish and motor alignment to peak the signal as well as you can on this satellite and then try to trace the arc.

Here you must take for granted what the dish and motor installation manuals tell you regarding setting the angles for each. Then, do NOT align your dish and motor to the nearest satellite. Align it to the HOME satellite (even though it may actually be imaginary - or has no signal). Then, with the receiver, tell it to MOVE the motor to the next nearest satellite that offers a signal and then peak the alignment of your dish and motor.

This way, you are still using the HOME satellite position as the reference, but you are "pretending" that you actually received a signal from it to peak the alignment with, although you didn't actually confirm it. You are basically skipping one step and hoping that you set the angles appropriately as you move on to another satellite to the east or the west. You are going to confirm your alignment there instead.

Doing this requires you to be more savvy. Say that the nearest satellite to your HOME satellite is actually 3 degrees away. Don't make the mistake of aligning your dish azimuth and dish elevation as if this satellite was your HOME satellite. Your arc will be off if you do this. Align the dish and motor to what you "BELIEVE" to be the HOME satellite and then use your reciever to drive the dish to the alternate satellite position and ONLY adjust your azimuth angle (move the motor on the mast east to west). If your motor and dish manuals were correct with the dish elevation instructions (angle) and you have the latitude angle of the motor set properly, you should detect a signal. When you do, fine tune it with the azimuth the best you can, then adjust the dish elevation angle. Get the signal to come in strong, but don't worry about peaking it to 100%. You don't have to be too precise at this point, you will work on improving this later, as you test more satellites across the arc. This is when and where you make compensations as you go back and forth across the horizon. Peak the signal a little on one sat to the east then go back to the west side and recheck and peak a signal a little and then back to the east side and repeak a little. You may need to adjust the azimuth and the dish elevation, but DO NOT change your motor elevation or latitude angle. If you set it correctly at the beginning, that is all you need or want to do.

I hope that you understand and comprehend my instructions. It isn't easy to put this all into words to paint the proper picture. I hope they give bonus points for trying! LOL

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

One more question, under the motorized system setup screen, I have the following four choices:
Go to Position

and each one has an "ok" button to click on. What do these do?

Cliff,

GOTO POSITION is easy to explain, whatever satellite you have on the docket above or the one you have selected at the onset, the GOTO POSITION is supposed to drive the dish motor to that satellite.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

One more question, under the motorized system setup screen, I have the following four choices:

Go to reference

and each one has an "ok" button to click on. What do these do?

Cliff,

The GO TO REFERENCE is used to send the motor to it "HOME" position. If you click on OK for this option, it is supposed to drive your motor to the ZERO or HOME position. If you look at your motor tube, the pointer should then be aligned to the 0° mark on the motor houring scale. This is a sort of RESET feature. Basically, it is a command that tells the motor to go look for your HOME position. This is an alternate to resetting the entire motor as is does not erase all of your settings, it just tries to "RESET HOME". This feature commands the motor to go back to the ZERO or HOME postion and reset that position when it detects the flag signal from either a mechanical switch or a magnetic reed switch. Some sort of switch or sensor lets the motor know when it is at HOME and that is what it is looking for when you tell it to GO TO 0.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

One more question, under the motorized system setup screen, I have the following four choices:
Go to X.11.0)

and each one has an "ok" button to click on. What do these do?

Cliff,

This instruction elludes me. I am not sure what its function is. I have a gut feeling that it is an option to drive the dish motor to a DiSEqC recorded position, something like the GO TO POSITION command, but instead of telling it to go to a degree position, it is telling the motor to go to a stored motor postiion (like go to the satellite position that I stored as position #5).

I can only guess on this one, sorry. That instruction is something that is not available to my receivers, so I don't know how that works. Possibly I am wrong with the GO TO POSITION and the GO TO X, I may actually have the two reversed. Not knowing your receiver's operation first hand is my limitation. I have a Captive works 800S, but I don't use it. I am dabbling with the AZBox at present.

RADAR

 

[Copykat]

Go to X.11.0) means "go to the angle position calculated by USALS."