Shaw Signal Quality Question (1 Viewer)

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LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
Good evening!

I had Shaw in Iowa where it worked fine. I recently moved to Maryland and have been experiencing some "interesting" things. I am 90% sure that elevation, AZ and skew are correct for my area. However I am getting limited signal. I adjusted all of the settings and this is the best it gets. There aren't any obstructions within 50 or 60 yards and even that is no more obtrusive than what I had in Iowa. On the HDs the most I have received is about 50% and 23% on the SD signals. At one time I did receive an 80+ signal, but that was when it was directly pointed at F1 (the one with all the HD) and I received 0 on the SD side. When I go into the diagnostic screen it says I have a signal strength of 80% on 299, but with a quality of 1. (the signal bar still shows a 23)

Questions:

- is this because the units were unplugged for a couple of weeks and they need to be rehit?

- am I simply "off" on the skew, etc and need to play with it?

- because I am approximately 150 miles further south do I need to go with the 90 reflector instead of the 75?

- anything else?

Thanks in advance. I know just enough to be dangerous. :)
 
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joshuals

SatelliteGuys Pro
when it was directly pointed at F1 (the one with all the HD)

I don't believe this is correct; according to the Lyngsat database, there are only 8 HD channels coming from F1R, while there are over 50 coming from F2.

Also, I belive you should have the dish boresite on F2 and skew the dish for F1R. If you have them reversed, could that be the source of your problem?

If you want to check the pointing data, there are numerous websites to do this; if you google up Global Communications and click on "The Canadian Solution" you will find pointing data for all locations in the US. I've found their data to be reliable.

I would also say that the 75e dish would be more than adequate for your latitude. To my knowledge Shaw does not make a larger dish than the 75e. They do make a smaller one (the 60e) that might not work well at your location, but the 75e should do it for you.
 
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LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
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Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't remember if I had been on F1 or F2. That's why I said that it was the one with all the HD. :) When I was getting the 80+ (but no picture) I wasn't getting anything on the free SD that I used to use to point the dish such as 299. That is one reason I thought I might need rehits, but I shouldn't on 299 or 711...or should I?

I have a 315 and 505.

Does the fact that I have those poor signal quality on the bars, yet the diagnosis screen shows strong signal with 1 quality have anything to do with anything?

Final silly question: I used to also use DISH to help me eyeball where the Aniks were. I'm still bouncing off 110 and 199 just fine. Realizing that the skew and elevation is different beween Marland and Iowa can I still try to aim just east off DISH? (I know it sounds dumb, but I'm more "visual")

Thanks again!
 

joshuals

SatelliteGuys Pro
I'm still bouncing off 110 and 199 just fine

I'm going to presume you meant 110 and 119 (not 199). I may be getting in over my head here, but, yeah, I guess you could use the alignment of your DISH dish to approximate the pointing direction toward the Aniks. Since I do not know which (110 or 119) your DISH dish is aimed at, I can't say whether you should be slightly east or slightly west. But it sounds as if you should be close enough with this approximation to intercept the signal from the Anik birds PROVIDED THAT (1) your SD dish's mast is plumb, (2) your have set the SD elevation correctly, and (3) you have set the SD skew correctly.

Does the fact that I have those poor signal quality on the bars, yet the diagnosis screen shows strong signal with 1 quality have anything to do with anything?

You must be using your 505 to do the pointing; I'm not familiar with this unit, so I can't help you there. Maybe someone else will help us out with this.

I have a 315. On this unit, the procedure for pointing is as follows:

Tune to 299, then Options 6 3 1 which brings up the strength meter. If the Provider ID window is blank, enter 4128; the meter may read 30 or less even if the dish is totally mispointed. Rotate the dish SLOWLY in an effort to maximize the signal level. It may take the meter several seconds to react, so go slowly in small increments. Once the reading rises above 30, the Satellite ID should show A4 on the screen, indicating that you are, in fact, pointed at the Aniks. Once you have the meter at its best level (say 80's or so), you can call for a rehit if you don't receive anything on 299, 300 or 701, or 712. Then you can optimize the signal by selecting a channel in your package and doing the following:

Options 6 0 5 and press the right arrow to go to Diagnostics C screen. In the right column, second row, is the ebno which should be a number such as +8.0. Try to get this number to increase (while tuned to a channel in your package) by forcing the dish against the tightened clamp SLIGHTLY up/down and left/right. If doing so increases the ebno, loosen the dish and tweak it in the proper direction. You may be able to get this number as high as +10.0 or even higher at your latitude. When this number is at its highest, you are getting the best signal quality possible. The ebno is a better indicator of signal quality than the strength meter.

Just a side note.....I'm not sure what kind of luck you will have calling for a rehit from the south side of the Canadian Border.....I presume you have this detail worked out somehow......
 
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bradleys

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 10, 2003
237
0
Seattle / Blaine / Port McNeill
I would definitely recommend a rehit. I've had cases where I don't get any TV including 299, if the receiver has been unplugged for weeks.

I don't have anything on my 530 called "signal quality". Which receiver are you aiming with?
 

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
291
39
Mankato, MN
the 530 and 505 to see the ebno # its options 6-4-7 line C

But a couple points already noted
AnikF2 (111.1) has the HD and is boresight on the LNB
If you are standing behind the dish looking up at the LNB the one on the left is 111.1 and right is 107.3
When working with multiple sats they look opposite how they are in the sky

Channels on F2 are 420, 559 and pretty much anything in the 700's for SD only. See what kind of ebno #'s you get for those channels
 

LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
Thanks for all the helpful responses! Here is where I'm at now:

- I'm getting "20" on the bar for both sats. I know that could be default, but when I adjust the dish it will go anywhere from zero to the twenty. I must be picking up "something" other than noise

- the skew, etc. I'm using is right from Mike Kohl's site for Baltimore

- I am not getting any messages about "a sub is needed" on any service

- the LNB is about 4 1/2 off the ground. My old pole had it about a foot higher. Does "height" matter even if the south is clear for 60 yards?

- the units still haven't received rehits from my provider

- looking in the EBNO I'm getting
420 = 17, line N = 69
559 = 17, line N = 71
700 = 16, line N = 65
285 = 39, line N = 66 (this was always the weakest in Iowa)
299 = 18, line N = 72

If I'm reading it correctly my best signal is ABC E HD on F2, BUT 420 also on that bird has a poor signal. I know that I'm about 200 miles south of my old location, but a 20 on F1 would still get me my SD services.

Any further help is greatly appreciated! :)
 

LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
As a follow up, those arewhat I'm seeing on the 505. The 315 that I'm using at the pole shows a signal level of 89 with a quality of 99 on all of those services (except 285 which it won't select). All the aforementioned info is the same.

Thanks again! :)
 

joshuals

SatelliteGuys Pro
looking in the EBNO I'm getting

I don't believe any of the numbers that you cite are ebno's.....the ebno should be a number in the range of +10.0 if the signal is good. Note that he ebno on the diagnostic screen always has a plus sign or a minus sign in front of it. I don't believe ebno's can exist in the range that you published in your last post (e.g. "69").

The 315 that I'm using at the pole shows a signal level of 89 with a quality of 99 on all of those services (except 285 which it won't select). All the aforementioned info is the same.

Using your 315 when you select Options 6 3 1 do you see:
Provider ID = 4128?
Satellite = A4?
If not, then something's amiss....

the LNB is about 4 1/2 off the ground. My old pole had it about a foot higher. Does "height" matter even if the south is clear for 60 yards?

I don't believe the height off the ground makes any difference as long as you have a clear line of sight between the dish and the satellite. It's sometimes difficult to estimate the line of sight, as the satellites are acutally higher in the sky than you would think by looking at a dish that is aimed correctly.


So with the way things are now, what to you see on your TV when you close all the Options Screens and tune to:

300?
701?
 

LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
I don't believe any of the numbers that you cite are ebno's.....the ebno should be a number in the range of +10.0 if the signal is good. Note that he ebno on the diagnostic screen always has a plus sign or a minus sign in front of it. I don't believe ebno's can exist in the range that you published in your last post (e.g. "69").
Those are the numbers for the lines that Iceberg wanted me to check. I'm not smart enough to knoe if thet are ebno or not. They represent the signal strength and quality on the 505 and 315

Using your 315 when you select Options 6 3 1 do you see:
Provider ID = 4128?
Satellite = A4?
If not, then something's amiss....
I only see the default provider ID in the 505 screen. Both say that it is A4.

So with the way things are now, what to you see on your TV when you close all the Options Screens and tune to:

300?
701?

Essentually the same as for the others.

Thanks for your help! :)
 

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
291
39
Mankato, MN
on the 505 if you go options 6-4-7

line C will show signal and an ebno which will be between 0.0 and +15.0
Most SD channels will be around +10.0 and HD around +7.0
 

LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
Ah! Those were virtually non-existant, if we are talking about the Db range indicator on line C of the 505.
 

LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
Any prognosis? Am I in the right spot, but not enough signal or something else?

Thanks!
 

joshuals

SatelliteGuys Pro
I'm confused....:confused:

In response to my question as to what you see on your TV screen when tuned to 300 or 701 you replied:

Essentually the same as for the others.
:confused:

So I went back through your posts but I couldn't find where you stated what you're actually seeing on your TV. When you tune to 300 or 701 with the 315 (and no menus open) do you see (1) a black TV screen? (2) a grey TV screen with text saying "please wait while we process your request"? (3) audio & video? (English on 300, French on 701) (4) snow? (5) something else ? if so, what? Please be specific :rant: ....each symptom above indicates a different problem situation.

Also, when tuned to 300 or 701 with the 315, is the little satellite icon on the front panel of the receiver (1) green or (2) red? Please check the color for both 300 & 701

********************

In response to my (our) question regarding the ebno's, you responded:

Ah! Those were virtually non-existant, if we are talking about the Db range indicator on line C of the 505
:confused::confused:

What do you mean by "non-existant"? (1) You don't see any numbers (such as Iceberg described) at all? (2) the numbers are there but they're very low, such as, say, less than +5.0?

In response to my question about the 315 Options 6 3 1 screen you stated

I only see the default provider ID in the 505 screen. Both say that it is A4.

The fact that it says A4 is a good sign that you are receiving a signal from the Aniks. The fact that the Provider ID box is empty on the 315 is of no consquence AS LONG AS the Satellite box reads "A4". But just for a check, with the 315, tune to 299, punch Options 6 3 1, and enter 4128 in the empty Provider ID box. A message should come up in the box below the Provider ID saying "correct signal found". The Satellite box should say "A4". This will confirm that you are receiving something from the Aniks. If, as you stated, the Signal box at the bottom of this menu now says you are getting a strength of 88, you should be able to see audio/video on 299, 300, and 701. (Mine currently reads 69, so 88 is great :up) If not, then we need to know what you DO see on your screen, per my question above.
 
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LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
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Thanks for the reply!

When I turn on the 315 at the bird I see the grey screen where it tells me "please wait while we process your request". I do not get the message that I need a subscription to view what I am viewing as I did prior to when the box was authorized when I first got it. There is no audio or video. When I first go to a service the icon will briefly be green (a second maybe) and then go to red.

When I go to the services mentioned (299, 700, etc.) via the tuning the dish signal feature the most that I receive on the bar is a 21 on both of them. The 315 does show A4 but does not have a provider number. I had been instructed in the past to NEVER input a number in there as it could mess up the programming. I will do it this time on the 315 and see what happens. On the diagnostics on the 315, line C only shows signal strength and that is higher than what the bar says on the tuning option.

The 505 is not at the pole and is inside. I receive essentially the same signal strength on the bars as the 315. (In the past when everything was working well there would be many times the 315 would show a 70 on a service and the 505 would show an 85.) It also shows the A4 and it has the default provider number of 4128. Line C on the 505 does not show any decibels on the scale on any of those services. Line C and Line N are as previously noted. As an aside, I never have seen the message "correct provider found" when I would peak the dish in the past.

Remember on both units the "bar" says that I'm getting a 21 strength. It is only in the diagnostics area under lines C and N where it says anything about receiving stronger signals.

Thank you very much. I apologize for not being as specific as I should have been.
 

joshuals

SatelliteGuys Pro
I never have seen the message "correct signal found" when I would peak the dish in the past.

This message appears on the 315 Options 6 3 1 screen when you enter "4128" in the Provider ID. I have made this entry several times today to see what happens, with no problems. Upon pressing Options 6 3 1 the Provider ID box reads "0" and the large rectangle directly below it is grey with no message in it. As I begin to enter digits, the rectangle below the Provider ID turns red and says "searching for signal". Once I complete entering "4128", this rectangle turns green and says "correct signal found". The Satellite box reads "A4". At that moment the Signal box & bar jumps up to about 78 and a constant tone is heard. (This tone would degrade to an intermittent beep at lower signal levels. The slower the beep, the lower the signal level.)

If I exit this screen and then return to it again, the Provider ID shows "0" again and the rectangle is grey. The satellite box shows "A4" and the signal box/bar shows 78. This is evidently the "default" status of this screen.

If I understand you correctly, when you performed the procedure from Options 6 3 1 that I describe above, you did NOT get a green rectangle saying "correct signal found" and the signal box/bar indicated a level of only 21. This is too low and it tells me that you are not correctly pointed at the Anik Satellites. This is also supported by the fact that you cannot maintain a green satellite icon on the front of your receiver. That being said, if rotating your dish east or west a little bit does not improve the signal level SHOWN ON THE OPTIONS 6 3 1 SCREEN, then we need to back up a step and decide if your method of initially rough-pointing your dish is at fault. As I recall, you said you were eyeballing it based on the position of a second dish at your location. You may need to consider using a compass to initally set the azimuth.....are you checked out on how to do this? Remember that you must convert the "true" azimuth shown on Mike Kohl's site to "compass" azimuth

Another thing to think about: the antenna mast must be plumb. If not, then the settings you have made for elevation and for skew will be incorrect, even though they appear correct on the back of the dish.
 

joshuals

SatelliteGuys Pro
Correction to My Previous Posts in This Thread

In several of my posts in this thread I suggested that the OP check reception on channels 300 and 701.....this was incorrect.

In each instance it should have read "301" and "700". Those are the CBC and SRC channels, respectively, that are inluded in all "Essentials" packages.

Apologies....must be dyslexia setting in......:rolleyes:
 

LLodge2

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 31, 2003
18
0
I wanted to follow up and thank everybody for all of their help. It ended up being both a pointing problem and an authorization problem. I ended up dowloading a Droid satellite finder app and it worked great! The installer and later me were a little bit off using Mike's info. Not much, but you know how it is. I depend upon Mike a lot! :)

Once again, thanks to the forum members. There was a happy ending.
 
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