So sick of these illogical (and seemingly arbitrary) hockey blackouts...

[ftaisawesome]

I can understand your local Fox channel not cutting away from your game. I just feel like if you have Sunday Ticket, you should be able to watch every second of every game. I could have sworn that was the day the Viking game got over but, then they went to the Tampa, Miami finish which then pushed it over the Cowboy game. I was upset because I'm not in the home market of Tampa or Miami.

Given that I don't have Sunday ticket, I couldn't be too upset. I'm at the mercy of my local Fox station.

So it's not like the other guys were saying where you can turn to the ST channel and get the start of all late games til your local Fox channel joins the game?

 

[cfb]

Never tried that, since if its on the local you're usually at the mercy of the local channels whims.

I do know that if the local station cuts away from a game, that it ends up getting turned on on the ST channel. Never timed it to see if its instant, a few minutes later or whenever someone notices and pushes a button. But dont know about lack of local coverage on the front end. I always watch sports time delayed to avoid the commercials.

 

[WhoRay85]

The thing I don't understand is this: I'm watching Sabres - Caps on 772 (CI) (Sabres feed), also have the telecast on MSG (638) (std def). Tonight it's not being offered on 638-1 (MSG-HD), however, when it is, the HD channel usually says the game is blacked out in my area, yet it's still coming in on 638. Makes no sense to me.

 

[ftaisawesome]

And no one at Dtv seems to give a crap or can even give a good explanation.

Whenever the Flyers play on NHLN, I'm blacked out. Last night the most recent instance. Game on NHLN and the Sharks' RSN. Both channels blacked out despite my local teams (according to the zip code checker on Dtv's website) are those based in Pittsburgh, Baltimore & DC.

I called in last night for the first time this season to try and get an explanation...the initial CSR really had no answer but claimed that someone unknown network (she said ESPN or Versus....blaming everything on Versus seems to be the CSR's go-to move these days) must have exclusive rights to show the game. She acknowledged that DirecTV was showing the game on NHLN and the Sharks' RSN but couldn't say why I was being blacked out other than the mysterious network with exclusive rights was the probable cause. She also said that just because it shows up in the guide, it doesn't mean they're actually showing the game. Huh? Really?

She did pass me on to a tech support guy and he really didn't have an explanation either. I was hoping that this guy might have been more logical in that you sorta need that ability to troubleshoot problems. Even after I explained that I am never blacked out when the Flyers are NOT on NHLN, yet am when they ARE, he still didn't have a decent explanation. He blamed it on the teams involved as well as the NHL for setting the blackout area. Somehow I didn't have this problem last season.

Fast forward to tonight....the Capitals (one of my local teams as determined by the zip code checker) are on NHLN. It's blacked out as you would expect....I flip over to the Caps' RSN and bingo, there's the game plain as day. Tonight the Flyers are playing the Coyotes in Phoenix. No local RSN in Phoenix is showing the game so guess what, the Flyers own Comcast Philly broadcast is being shown on a CI channel.

Now...the only thing I can figure out (and it still doesn't seem right) is that somehow Comcast Philly has the local rights for Flyers games in my area (even though that doesn't jive with the zip code checker), BUT since Dtv doesn't have Comcast Philly among their RSNs, I'm being blacked out on both the national provider (NHLN) and the opponent's provider (Sharks' RSN). This sorta makes sense but is not in any way fair to the subscriber, if for no other reason than my zip code does not put me in the Flyers' blackout area.

No one at DirecTV cares, that's the bottom line....they just want to pass the buck to the NHL, the teams and their favorite new boogeyman Comcast. If DirecTV didn't have Sunday Ticket, I would drop them in a heartbeat.

I just happened upon thisl

DirecTV + NHL Center Ice + ComcastSportsNet = No Hockey Games For You To Watch - The Consumerist

 

[shinner]

The thing I don't understand is this: I'm watching Sabres - Caps on 772 (CI) (Sabres feed), also have the telecast on MSG (638) (std def). Tonight it's not being offered on 638-1 (MSG-HD), however, when it is, the HD channel usually says the game is blacked out in my area, yet it's still coming in on 638. Makes no sense to me.

Thought I remember some issue with MSG not allowing DTV to show games on their HD networks. The other night Philly played the Islanders. Was blacked out on MSG-HD but no problems on the SD channel.

I just happened upon thisl

DirecTV + NHL Center Ice + ComcastSportsNet = No Hockey Games For You To Watch - The Consumerist

From what I understand (this coming from a friend here who had relatives in Harrisburg), the cable company there has had Philly games via Comcast (and it's previous incarnations in Philly) going back at least 12-15 years (how long I've lived here and knew the guy who told me this). Could very well have been much longer than that. For this same time period, we could not get Philly sports on our local cable in my town. In all this time (most of which I've had DTV and subbed to NFL ST and NHL CI), I never had any blackout issues. Comcast buys our cableco four or five years ago...doesn't offer CSN8 initially, but now does either this year or last for the first time. My blackout issues start.

Now the question I have, is....as Comcast acquires cable companies in outlying areas that never before were in the Philly region, are they being allowed to expand the area that they can now claim as their region once they make CSN8 available? Looking at how things have changed in my case, I'm guessing they are....and that's a crock of sh*t.

 

[ETS]

Im not A NHL fan, but after watchin "3 Wide Life" on SportSouth 649 I left the TV on that channel and watched a show I taped ealier. After I watched the show, the Hurricanes/Thrashers game was on and it was not Blacked Out and im in NY. I dont have the hockey package or nothing. So was that a one time thing or a mistake on *D's part?

 

[shinner]

Another good example tonight.....no Atlanta network so DTV has the Comcast Philly feed for the Flyers game and I'm NOT blacked out. So...why doesn't DTV get the Comcast Philly feed to show when the Flyers play on NHLN?

Think I know why....when the Flyers are on NHLN, all out of area people can watch it on NHLN and don't need a RSN to show it...and us "locals" (whether we're local or not), are forced to see it on Comcast Philly (which DTV obviously doesn't carry). But DirecTV doesn't really give a crap about the so-called locals to the Philly area (I say, "so-called" because it's obvious I'm not in the Philly area even though I get blacked out when they play on NHLN). We're not that important....better to screw us, a relatively small amount of subs, instead of the rest of the country, iow, the majority of their subs.

 

[obxflyers]

Shinner, I can understand your frustration. When I first moved to York they had Suscom cable, they offered CSN Mid-Atlantic (because the Orioles were on then) & FSN Pitt. So I figured I'd get center ice through them to watch the Flyers, well turns out they were blacked out on center ice on cable because York (or at least some part of it) is considered Flyers & Penguins territory (unfortunately, the blackout rules don't go by what channels are actually available to you, just where you fall on the map). So I could see Penguins & Caps games on regular channels, but only the Penguins & Flyers were blacked out on Center Ice, not the Caps (makes alot of sense, huh?)

Thankfully after Comcast took over (can't believe I'm saying that) they added CSN Philly a couple years ago. So now we at least have the channel in SD (don't know if we'll ever see it offered in HD around here). The whole not available on satellite-terrestrial loophole thing just makes the situation that much worse. Belive me, if they ever offered it on satellite (and in HD) I'd be in heaven.

 

[shinner]

I hear ya but I can't afford to have local Comcast to get CSN-P (and presumably Extra Innings) and then keep Dtv for Sunday Ticket. What really boggles my mind is the way Comcast is turning their noses up at all the extra money they could be getting by allowing Dtv to carry CSN-P for those not local to Philly.

 

[Mr Tony]

What really boggles my mind is the way Comcast is turning their noses up at all the extra money they could be getting by allowing Dtv to carry CSN-P for those not local to Philly.

easy
M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y

Until the FCC steps in and forces the loophole shut you wont see CSN Philly on Satellite

 

[shinner]

But aren't they throwing money away considering that Dtv would still have to blackout areas local to Comcast? Just seems to me that they're missing out on a lot of money that Philly natives around the country would happily spend if they could keep up with the teams they grew up watching.

What's the downside to letting Dtv carry the network and provide it to those outside the Philly blackout area? They'd still maintain the monopoly they currently have in the Philly area and pick up a ton of subs outside of that.

 

[shinner]

This is kinda maddening but makes me laugh a bit. Tonight, Flyers vs Penguinos on NHLN & Fox Sports Pitt (as well as CSN Philly which we know DTV doesn't carry). I'm getting the game on FSP with NHLN blacked out....presumably because FSP is one of my "local" RSNs.

Why is it maddening but make me laugh? FSP is hardly "local" to me since I'm a good 3.5hr drive from Pitt. The last time Philly was on NHLN was the Ottawa game on the 3rd. DTV carried it on NHLN and a RSN but I was blacked out presumably because my local cable company showed it on CNS Philly. I'm sure CSN Philly is also showing tonight's game vs the Pens, yet I can watch it on FSP.

Now what really is the difference between being able to watch tonight's game on what is essentially not a local network (FSP) but is designated as one and...not being able to watch the Senators game on a different RSN that isn't local but isn't designated as local either? Comcast Philly carried both games but were able to black me out on the Sens game but not on the Pens game. Doesn't really make sense. It's not like I'm seeing local commercials tonight on the Pens' network...no real difference had I been able to watch the Sens game on whatever RSN they used that night (think it was from out west, maybe Cali).

If I really was claimed by Philly, shouldn't I be blacked out for both games? And if I'm not claimed by Philly, then shouldn't I have been able to watch both? How can I belong to Philly on a "sometimes" basis? "That's just the way it is" really isn't an acceptable explanation.

All I really want is uniformity so I can depend on being able to watch what I'm paying for...and that's really what it comes down to. This isn't free. I'm paying for a product and not receiving it completely.

 

[jb14075]

This is kinda maddening but makes me laugh a bit. Tonight, Flyers vs Penguinos on NHLN & Fox Sports Pitt (as well as CSN Philly which we know DTV doesn't carry). I'm getting the game on FSP with NHLN blacked out....presumably because FSP is one of my "local" RSNs.

Why is it maddening but make me laugh? FSP is hardly "local" to me since I'm a good 3.5hr drive from Pitt. The last time Philly was on NHLN was the Ottawa game on the 3rd. DTV carried it on NHLN and a RSN but I was blacked out presumably because my local cable company showed it on CNS Philly. I'm sure CSN Philly is also showing tonight's game vs the Pens, yet I can watch it on FSP.

Now what really is the difference between being able to watch tonight's game on what is essentially not a local network (FSP) but is designated as one and...not being able to watch the Senators game on a different RSN that isn't local but isn't designated as local either? Comcast Philly carried both games but were able to black me out on the Sens game but not on the Pens game. Doesn't really make sense. It's not like I'm seeing local commercials tonight on the Pens' network...no real difference had I been able to watch the Sens game on whatever RSN they used that night (think it was from out west, maybe Cali).

If I really was claimed by Philly, shouldn't I be blacked out for both games? And if I'm not claimed by Philly, then shouldn't I have been able to watch both? How can I belong to Philly on a "sometimes" basis? "That's just the way it is" really isn't an acceptable explanation.

All I really want is uniformity so I can depend on being able to watch what I'm paying for...and that's really what it comes down to. This isn't free. I'm paying for a product and not receiving it completely.

That seems crazy but I know it is true, its almost as if Central & South Cenral PA are a no mans land (as far a D* is concerned). My parents live in Central PA, about the same distance from Philly & Baltimore yet their home teams are the Mets & Yankees? How can you be "local" to NYC for baseball when 4 other markets are a shorter distance away? Whats really strange is that they do not get MSG as a local, only SNY & YES. In fact they get no NHL or NBA local coverage at all with any package below Premier. Local for Mets & Yankess, not local for Nets, Knicks, Devils, Rangers or Islanders? With Premier they also get FSN - Pittsburgh (Pirates & Pens). The next town to the west of my parents (about 15 miles away) gets all Baltimore/DC teams as their locals (and FSN Pitt w/ Premier).

 

[Mr Tony]

But aren't they throwing money away considering that Dtv would still have to blackout areas local to Comcast? Just seems to me that they're missing out on a lot of money that Philly natives around the country would happily spend if they could keep up with the teams they grew up watching.

but they can't.....if you are outside of the Philly area that the teams claim the games are blacked out so its a moot point. You need NHL CI for those

What's the downside to letting Dtv carry the network and provide it to those outside the Philly blackout area? They'd still maintain the monopoly they currently have in the Philly area and pick up a ton of subs outside of that.

see above....All pro teams outside of the local "claimed" area are blacked out so why carry a channel that (in your scenario) 100% of the market is blacked out of games?

Also, because CSN Philly uses the old infrastructure of PRISM & Sportschannel Philly which is fibre and microwave its not on satellite right now....no not Dish or Directv satellite but C-Band satellite (for the other carriers to grab the feed). That is the loophole right now.....from wiki

Unlike most other cable networks, CSN Philadelphia is only distributed via microwave and fiber optics. The infrastructure Comcast uses for this was left over from the now defunct PRISM Network. Since CSN Philadelphia does not uplink its signal to any satellite, Comcast is able to avoid an FCC regulation that requires most television channels to be offered to direct broadcast satellite (DBS) companies. Lawyers for DirecTV and Dish Network have attempted to show that Comcast Corporation, who owns both CSN Philadelphia along with most of the cable systems in the Philadelphia market, is acting in restraint of trade because it does not uplink CSN Philadelphia to satellite. However, so far neither the FCC nor the federal courts have forced Comcast to make CSN Philadelphia available to the DBS services. Thus, DBS customers in the Philadelphia region do not get access to the network or any of the local teams' games. However, cable companies other than Comcast within the designated CSN Philadelphia market do have access to the channel. In December 2006, Comcast even made a deal to place CSN Philadelphia on Verizon's competing FiOS systems.

 

[shinner]

Also, because CSN Philly uses the old infrastructure of PRISM & Sportschannel Philly which is fibre and microwave its not on satellite right now....no not Dish or Directv satellite but C-Band satellite (for the other carriers to grab the feed). That is the loophole right now.....from wiki

How do they put their feed on Center Ice for some games and quite a few Sixers games from what I understand?

 

[Greg Bimson]

But [isn't Comcast] throwing money away considering that Dtv would still have to blackout areas local to Comcast? Just seems to me that they're missing out on a lot of money that Philly natives around the country would happily spend if they could keep up with the teams they grew up watching.

I've read a good chunk of this thread, so I'll try to make this simple:

The leagues have given each team a home territory. You must be within the Flyers, Pens and Caps home territories. You cannot get MSG and expect to see the Islanders and Sabres, as you are out of their territories.

If there are Philadelphia sports fans around the country, and they aren't in the respective leagues' Philadelphia home territory, fans of the Phillies, Sixers and Flyers can watch most of those teams' games on Extra Innings, League Pass or Center Ice respectively. Comcast Sports Net games can be made available in the out-of-market packages.

If Comcast allows DirecTV access to the channel CSN Philly, then Comcast would be forced to allow both DirecTV and Dish Network carriage of the channel back into the Philadelphia market. It is no coincidence that the lowest penetration rate for the satellite companies is Philadelphia, because Comcast can withhold CSN Philly from the satellite companies.

I can guarantee you that if DirecTV and Dish Network were allowed to have CSN Philly, the following 12 months would easily show major subscriber gains for the satellite companies.

Truthfully, I EXPECT that if the Comcast/NBC Universal deal goes through, one major concession is that all Comcast-owned programming is subject to open access; the same condition was given to Fox when they acquired a controlling stake in DirecTV. That would force Comcast to open up CSN Philly to the satellite companies.

How do they put their feed on Center Ice for some games and quite a few Sixers games from what I understand?

The respective leagues force Comcast to open up the broadcast for the out-of-market packages. "This telecast is copyrighted by the NHL, Comcast Sports Network and the Philadelphia Flyers".

 

[shinner]

If there are Philadelphia sports fans around the country, and they aren't in the respective leagues' Philadelphia home territory, fans of the Phillies, Sixers and Flyers can watch most of those teams' games on Extra Innings, League Pass or Center Ice respectively. Comcast Sports Net games can be made available in the out-of-market packages.

I understand this...I was not asking why I can't see Philly games without having to sub to CI, EI or LP. I sub to CI & EI...and even though I'm not claimed by Philly according to DTV, I'm still blacked out of Flyers games when they play on NHL Network....UNLESS they're playing Pitt or Wash (who I am claimed by). That was my original frustration. And now that I think about it, even though I sub to EI, I'm often blacked out of Phillies games. My wife & I aren't Phillies fans (we each like diff teams) but we've had some frustrations when our teams are playing the Phillies and we end up being blacked out despite subbing to EI. It's not logical and it's not consistent.

Additionally (though it's very much secondary), I'm interested in seeing CSN Philly, not just for the actual games but also the team's daily shows as well as their sportscenter type shows. Subbing to CI, EI or LP gets me none of this. This is a separate issue though and not part of my original post. In fact, the matter of DirecTV not being able to carry CSN Philly really doesn't have anything to do with it.

I understand why I can't see games carried by Versus. I don't understand why I can't see games carried by 2 of the 3 networks carrying a Flyers game (the national carrier & the local carrier for the opponent) when I'm not claimed by Philadelphia. If the game was only carried by the Sens carrier & the Flyers carrier, I'd be able to see it no problem on the Sens channel. That's the crux of my original post...nothing to do with why CSN Philly is/isn't on Dtv.

If Comcast allows DirecTV access to the channel CSN Philly, then Comcast would be forced to allow both DirecTV and Dish Network carriage of the channel back into the Philadelphia market.

This I didn't understand...I thought that if the sat companies did carry CSN Philly, they could still deny this channel to Philly locals. Now that I think about it though, I'm sure Boston locals can watch NESN via satellite, so this does make sense.

The respective leagues force Comcast to open up the broadcast for the out-of-market packages. "This telecast is copyrighted by the NHL, Comcast Sports Network and the Philadelphia Flyers".

This however doesn't back up the hardware claim that Comcast Philly doesn't have the capability to put their network on Dtv or Dish. They clearly do, so falling back on the "CSN Philly uses the old infrastructure of PRISM & Sportschannel Philly which is fibre and microwave" excuse is pretty hollow. They're clearly capable of providing it to Dtv & Dish.

And if the leagues CAN force Comcast to open up their broadcast, why am I still blacked out of some Philly games depending upon what network available on DirecTV is broadcasting the game? I've given enough examples. Is it really DirecTV sticking it to me?

Use the Ottawa game for instance. On NHLN, CSN Philly & some west coast FOX RSN I believe.

- NHL blacked out
- CNS Philly not available
- FOX blacked out.

Did DirecTV choose to put the game on the FOX affiliate (which obviously has no affiliation to the Senators) instead of using a Comcast Philly feed? I can't really say what Senators feed they used obviously...it could have been a Canadian feed and they just used the FOX channel for the game. According to your statement, the league can force Comcast to open up the broadcast. Did they not do this or did DirecTV choose not to use a Comcast feed (don't know why they wouldn't since they haven't had any problems using it as recently as the Tampa Bay game on Saturday)?

All I'd like is an answer that makes sense...I've tried to get that from DirecTV and only got a runaround. Different DirecTV reps blamed it on Versus (when they weren't even carrying the game), the NHL and even the Flyers themselves. It's obvious that they had no clue regarding the problem. Emailing the NHL offices was met with silence.

It really makes me think it's just another case of the consumer taking it up the rear chute but none of the companies involved will admit to it.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Considering this is the most successful and profitable sport in the US, I'm surprised that you're getting worse coverage with the sport thats most likely to commercially fail in the next 5 years. You'd think they'd be working harder to get the game in front of the fans as much as they could.

That's the million dollar question: how would the NHL get the game in front of the fans as much as they could? That's why the NHL hired Bettman; the problem isn't as much Bettman as it is that hockey is more of a regional sport with super-fanatic fans. It isn't a casual interest sport.

Spoken as a hard core NHL fan in the 60's and 70's who mostly gave up due to over expansion and diluted expertise in the 80's and completely gave up in the 90's.

I realize I am in the minority here and was born a couple years after the first expansion, but romanticizing the Original Six and the first wave of expansion forgets some of the more boneheaded business moves that were done throughout the post-war era. Those boneheaded moves continued on through today: lookup Nashville Predators, about one person so pigheaded not to allow a second person to buy and move the franchise, that person number three was given the right to buy it and it turns out he was a fraud. And not the first fraud in the NHL.

The main boneheaded move IMO was the lack of expansion during the Original Six era. Check out Al Sutphin of the AHL's Cleveland Barons, and how the NHL jerked him around to the point he said forget it. Or even prior to that, when in the 1940's someone tried to resurrect the Montreal Maroons franchise in Philadelphia. Anytime there was interest, it was met with resistance, until the want of a national television contract was expected. And the only way to get that contract was...

The second boneheaded move was the 1967 expansion process. The main reason St. Louis received an NHL team is because the owners of the Blackhawks owned the St. Louis Arena, and they'd receive money either by rent or by sale of the arena. They added teams in LA and SF, yet there were a couple of teams from the Western Hockey League there already. They wouldn't award Buffalo or Vancouver teams (until three years after, upon threat of the WHA).

Other boneheaded moves include creating rules to limit the best players (see Rocket Richard and the red-line and the Gretzky rule removing 4-on-4 hockey during a minor penalty). These guys just can't seem to get out of their own way.

The league has always been reactive against those infringing upon their stewardship of the game. Unfortunately. It takes a leader with a vision...

 

[Greg Bimson]

I don't understand why I can't see games carried by 2 of the 3 networks carrying a Flyers game (the national carrier & the local carrier for the opponent) when I'm not claimed by Philadelphia.

You've mentioned that the local cableco has CSN. If the local cabler is showing Flyers games on CSN Philly, you most definitely are in the Flyers viewing area.

Use the Ottawa game for instance. On NHLN, CSN Philly & some west coast FOX RSN I believe.

- NHL blacked out
- CNS Philly not available
- FOX blacked out.

Let's try it this way...

The NHL has a national broadcast contract with both Versus and NBC. During those windows, there isn't any RSN coverage of the involved teams. So, you get to watch the Flyers on NBC and Versus (where either are available) and only on those channels. [On DirecTV, you'd only get the Flyers on NBC, as Versus is unavailable]

Next, the Flyers have a local broadcast contract with CSN Philly. So when a Flyers game is on CSN Philly, you can watch it provided your cabler/satco has the station. [On DirecTV, you do not have access to CSN Philly, so you do not get Flyers games]

The NHL Network and NHL Center Ice are out of market packages and will not get you more Flyers games.

On DirecTV, if you buy the Sports Pack, you will receive all games of any team that claims your area, so in the Harrisburg area your primary team is the Flyers, but you also get Penguins and Captials games. You will even get those teams when they play the Flyers.

So the only way on DirecTV to get the Flyers is to watch the Saturday NBC games, the Pens vs. Flyers on Fox Sports Pittsburgh or the Caps vs. Flyers on CSN Washington. And if that is exactly what is appearing to you, then my scenario is most likely correct.

This however doesn't back up the hardware claim that Comcast Philly doesn't have the capability to put their network on Dtv or Dish. They clearly do, so falling back on the "CSN Philly uses the old infrastructure of PRISM & Sportschannel Philly which is fibre and microwave" excuse is pretty hollow. They're clearly capable of providing it to Dtv & Dish.

And if the leagues CAN force Comcast to open up their broadcast, why am I still blacked out of some Philly games depending upon what network available on DirecTV is broadcasting the game?

First paragraph is solely a business decision by Comcast. In the Philadelphia area, Comcast doesn't want to lose subscribers to satellite, and one way to do that is withhold all local pro sports games from satellite.

Second paragraph is somewhat incorrect. The leagues cannot force Comcast to open up their broadcast within the local market that the league has given to that team. The league has the ability to repurpose the local broadcast for use in the out-of-market package, but since it appears you are in-market, that doesn't help you.

 

[Greg Bimson]

I may have "read a good chunk of this thread", but I think I missed this:

Comcast Philly shows virtually every Flyers game and when not on NHLN, I get the games on the opponents RSN, no problem. If I'm truly in the Flyers' "local market", shouldn't I also be blacked out when the Flyers aren't on NHLN? That's what I'm not understanding. It doesn't seem logical at all. How did it change from last year to this?

So you are a CI subscriber, and you are getting ALL Flyers games from the opposing teams' feed, except when they are on NHL Network.

Now I'm baffled.

I think a call to NHL Network is in order. They are blacking you out thinking you are in the Flyers market.