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Stackable switches

Discussion in 'Free To Air (FTA) Discussion' started by comfortably_numb, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
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    I see some switches being sold and advertised as "stackable." Does that mean I could use 2 of the 4-port switches to make an 8-port switch?
     
  2. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
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    Stackable indicates that they are designed to be used in series and pass-though signaling to establish the signal path.
     
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  3. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
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    Thanks. What would be a practicle application for stacking?
     
  4. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    well, you could consider having a 4-port switch near a dish, for example to switch between several LNBs on the same motorized dish (C, Ku, maybe Circular C), and then one cable, and then bring that cable to another switch which could also be fed by a few stationary dishes in another location (where it would not be so practical to have everything connected to just one switch).

    In theory you can cascade a Diseqc 1.0 and a 1.1. But I have tried without success. I'm not sure if the problem was a limitation of my switches (a Pansat 1.1 and several no-brand 1.0), or a limitation of my receiver (Amiko miniHDre). If someone knows the answer, i'm interested :)
     
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  5. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
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    In this scenario, how does the receiver know which switch is which?
     
  6. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    My understanding is that you could connect a Diseqc 1.1 to the receiver, and then several 1.0 switches to each input of the 1.1 switch. So in each combination, the path of the active LNB would go at most through one 1.0 switch and then the 1.1 switch. In the satellite configuration in the receiver, you typically have a selection for the 1.0 protocol and another line for the 1.1 protocol. (at least the Amiko does). But maybe i'm doing this wrong, since it did not work for me...
     
  7. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    On diseqc switches, does this help? Dish Expansion: What is Committed/Uncommitted?

    Every diseqc switch 'knows' exactly to what command(s) it will respond, and will not respond to other commands. So in your receiver you have to match the diseqc commands to the switch-ports at which your LNBs are connected.

    About the use of the word 'stackable', I have no idea to what qualities of the switch they refer. As written in the link: every diseqc switch can be used serially (and so be 'stacked' in a cascade), and they pass through power and signal only to the chosen port.

    With Ecoda 22kHz switches, that is different: power and 22kHz is passed on to both ports always, and only satellite signal is switched.

    So to what special quality the refer I don't know.
    But maybe they use 'stackable' for every switch, just as they advertise for 'HD-LNBs, suitable for 4K' (as if a normal LNB wouldn't suffice...)

    Greetz,
    A33
     
    #7 a33, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  8. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
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    Makes sense, as "Port A, B, C, D" would be the only option for a Diseqc 1.1 4x1 switch. But if you stack another 4x1 switch into the mix, there doesn't appear to be a way to distinguish between the two
     
  9. KE4EST

    KE4EST SatelliteGuys Is My Second Home
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    Have you read this thread? Switch setups simplified

    On the Amiko if you run into a 8X1 switch and then a 4X1...
    In the settings for the satellite you want. Under DiSEqC 1.1 choose which port of the 8X1, the 4X1 is attached to. Then in 1.0 choose which port of the 4X1 the LNBF is attached to. :)
     
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  10. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Have you read the link I gave? A diseqc 1.0 switch cannot react to a diseqc 1.1 command, and vice versa.

    A diseqc 1.1 command goes something like this:
    "Hey, to all switches, listen up! Is there a diseqc 1.1 switch there? If so, do you have a port 14 to switch to? Then do so. If not, ignore this command."

    So there is unique distinguishment for all the 64 switch ports that can be reached by a 16/1 diseqc 1.1 switch and 16 4/1 diseqc 1.0 switches; or the other way round: one 4/1 diseqc 1.0 switch and 4 16/1 diseqc 1.1 switches.

    A33
     
  11. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    yeah that's what I did... No luck switching the Diseqc 1.0 switch (located between the LNB and the Diseqc 1.1 switch)
     
  12. KE4EST

    KE4EST SatelliteGuys Is My Second Home
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    Interesting. But to be honest, I have not experimented with it in a long time.
     
  13. primestar31

    primestar31 SatelliteGuys Master

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    Have you checked the Diseqc 1.0 switch all alone, to make sure it didn't fry? NEVER hook/unhook POWERED coax from a Diseqc switch, otherwise you are taking a big chance you'll blow it out.
     
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  14. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    yep, it's definitely good

    I remember seeing a project about making a Diseqc "reader" using an arduino or similar microcontroller. Maybe I should try making one so that I can analyze the signals at each step.
     
  15. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Testing the switching functionality of diseqc switches can easily be done by testing the 'output voltage' on the input ports. There should be 13 or 18 volts on the reached port, the not-reached ports have 0 volt.

    Can be done with a multimeter, but also with a satbeeper (light is on only when voltages is there), or with a diode+resistor (see e.g. Diseqc switch testen voor ie het dak opgaat)

    Greetz,
    A33
     
  16. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    So, leaving the 1.1 switch out, the 1.0 switch works OK?
    And vice versa, leaving the 1.0 switch out, the 1.1 switch works OK?

    What 1.1 switch do you have? There was an EMP switch that repeated commands, that caused problems with 1.0 switches.

    What diseqc command setup do you have in your receiver?

    Greetz,
    A33
     
  17. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    exactly, all the switches work fine individually.

    so for example, if i have the LNB on port 2 of the 1.0 switch, with the output of the 1.0 connected to port 5 of the 1.1 switch, in the receiver I would select :
    Diseqc 1.0 : port 2/4
    Diseqc 1.1 : port 5/8

    The 1.1 switch is the Pansat from Casey's store: Hypermegasat.com, FTA Switch etc

    the 1.0 switches are "Premium XHD" and "ViewSat"
     
  18. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    I would expect 5/16, but if you have 5/8 in your menu, that is OK also. :)

    Do you have options like setting command order or diseqc repeat in your receiver? Have you tried those?

    Another thing that can happen, is that a newly reached 1.0 switch has a relatively high starting current, causing the 1.1 switch to 'reset' and go to port 1 again.
    That is because in the cheaper switches, they sometimes leave out a capacitor at the switching IC, it seems, that would normally equalize voltage fluctuations.
    This effect (the switching to port 1 again) should be detectable, I would say, but I've never come across this myself.

    If the problem lies in 22kHz commands not reaching the 1.0 switch, due to hardware insufficiencies, I wouldn't know how to test that further...

    greetz,
    A33
     
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  19. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    No I don't think the receiver has those options

    I could possibly try to plug in my oscilloscope at various points and try doing a recording and seeing if I can analyze the 22kHz data.

    I do know that the 22 kHz tone used to switch universal LNBFs is passing thru all the switches, since i'm able to use those LNBFs are working fine when using one switch at a time.
     
  20. DVB-S2

    DVB-S2 SatelliteGuys Family

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    Would you not have to ensure the Diseqc 1.1 command is sent first to 'open' port 5 before the Diseqc 1.0 command is sent, otherwise there's no way for the 1.0 command to reach its destination?

    I have successfully cascaded comitted and uncommited switches and vice-versa, using both a MicroHD receiver and a DVB card.
     

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