1. Another Team Summit in the books!

    Thanks to the generosity of a number of our members SatelliteGuys will be covering DISH Networks Team Summit Event from Phoenix, Arizona!

    CLICK HERE for our Team Summit 2019 Coverage!

    CLICK HERE to see our 2019 DISH Team Summit Recap Video! Thanks for being part of SatelliteGuys!
    CLICK THE X IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THE BOX TO DISMISS THIS MESSAGE
    Dismiss Notice

Stackable switches

Discussion in 'Free To Air (FTA) Discussion' started by comfortably_numb, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    700
    Likes Received:
    635
    Location:
    Connecticut
    on the Rex:
    with diseqc 1.0=port1, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 1/8
    with diseqc 1.0=port2, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 5/12
    with diseqc 1.0=port3, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 9/16
    with diseqc 1.0=port4, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through ...command 13/16 then 1-4

    on the Amiko:
    with diseqc 1.0=port1, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 1/8
    with diseqc 1.0=port2, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 5/12
    with diseqc 1.0=port3, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 1/8
    with diseqc 1.0=port4, i can reach diseqc 1.1 port 1/8 through command 5/12

    i could see sometimes some hesitation on the 1.1, where it would go to the port matching the command at first and then fall back on the port mentioned above. It seems that it's having some problems with the bits marking the 4 and 8 in the last nibble of the 1.1 command.

    the repeat setting does not seem to have any impact. I did not inspect the actual commands on the Amiko so I don't know if there's any repeating

    as to how it would reach, well, keep in mind that the DiSEqc commands are actually repeated at regular intervals, like every second or half second, so if it's not getting it the first time, it will get it on the next round
     
    Keith Brannen likes this.
  2. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    Normally a receiver only sends a diseqc command when changing channels.
    And only when that doesn't give a lock on the wanted channel, a receiver tries the diseqc command again, and repeats.
    (BTW That is also important, because if 22kHz(continuous) is ON, a diseqc repeat would interfere with that.)

    So I guess the repetition you mention is the 'no-lock repeat'. The interval for that is quite different over various receivers, I noticed.

    greetz,
    A33
     
    Brct203 likes this.
  3. Keith Brannen

    Keith Brannen SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    Southwestern Ontario
    That is not my understanding when it comes to cascading switches. The commands are sent more than once. For an explanation, see the below Spaun document (Page 7 starts the "Combination OF DiSEqC Components) 9.2.1 Example explains it.

    http://www.spaun.com/files/8df79_en_DiSEqC_for_Technicians.pdf
     
  4. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    That depends entirely on how the receiver's manufacturer has made it.
    It can be once, or twice (or more), or settable by user.

    The 'once' gives problems e.g. when cascading a 4/1 1.0 switch with a monoblock LNB (both switching on 'position' command).

    And the lack of diseqc 1.1 repeat caused also a problem here, switching 20 LNBs in a rather special setup (sorry, in Dutch!): DISEqC, 20 lnb's schakelen

    Not everything on the internet about diseqc is right. Also the wikipedia page about diseqc I find partly mis-informing, alas! :(
    Even the eutelsat documents are not uptodate; some (motor)commands are missing.
    The spaun document is indeed better than wikipedia. That sometimes repeats are needed is clear, but that doesn't mean that they actually happen.

    Greetz,
    A33
     
    #64 a33, Feb 9, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  5. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    6,120
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    Also consider that many receivers are coded to reissue 22KHz/DiSEqC commands if no signal path is detected for a tuner lock.

    If signal lock is lost, many receivers attempt to reestablish the signal path. In your testing, it appears that no active transponder signal was available for tuner lock on each port. I would suspect that this would trigger command repeats by most STBs.
     
  6. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    :)

    That's about what I wrote in #62

    greetz,
    A33
    :)
     
  7. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Posts:
    6,642
    Likes Received:
    6,569
    Location:
    Missouri/Kansas
    Just to clarify, it would not be possible to stack two 4x1 switches, correct?
     
  8. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    When they switch on the same commands: NO, pretty useless.
    Only one port of the second switch would be reached; so the presence of the second switch would bring nothing.

    When they switch on different commands: YES.
    Can be done with a 4/1 diseqc 1.0 switch plus a 4/1 diseqc 1.1 switch.
    Or with 2 4/1 diseqc 1.1 switches, that can be setup to use different uncommitted commandlevels (e.g. Spaun SUR420).
    Or combined with a switch that switches on diseqc 1.2 commands.

    8/1 switches I find easier than stacking two 4/1 switches; however with two dishes at separate locations stacking multiple switches could be easier.

    greetz,
    A33
     
    comfortably_numb likes this.
  9. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Posts:
    6,642
    Likes Received:
    6,569
    Location:
    Missouri/Kansas
    I only see Diseqc 1.0 and 2.0 switches available that are of the 4x1 variety. Would one 1.0 and one 2.0 4x1 be stackable?
     
  10. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    700
    Likes Received:
    635
    Location:
    Connecticut
    no they would not as they use the same commands (a 2.0 switch is like a 1.0 that can give feedback to the receiver)
     
    comfortably_numb likes this.
  11. Keith Brannen

    Keith Brannen SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    Southwestern Ontario
    And my point was that a manufacturer (Spaun) of switches stated that when cascading switches the commands are required/need to be sent more than once for proper switching. Whether manufacturers of receivers follow those guidelines or not is at their peril as to whether they can properly control cascading switches if/when they don't follow those guidelines.

    EDIT: If not sending the commands more than once, I can also see where a "no lock, repeat" could fail to happen if the command sent only once happened by chance to lock on a same frequency signal as the required channel.
     
    #71 Keith Brannen, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019

Separate names with a comma.

More...