Surely Not Good - And Somewhat a Surprise

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charper1

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May 18, 2004
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Associated Press

8 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Russian government collected intelligence from sources inside the American military command as the U.S. mounted the invasion of Iraq, and the Russians fed information to Saddam Hussein on troop movements and plans, according to Iraqi documents cited in a report released Friday.
The Russians relayed information to Saddam during the opening days of the war in late March and early April 2003, including a crucial time before the ground assault on Baghdad, according to the documents.

The unclassified report does not assess the value of the information or provide details beyond citing two captured Iraqi documents that say the Russians collected information from sources "inside the American Central Command" and that battlefield intelligence was provided to Saddam through the Russian ambassador in Baghdad.

A classified version of the Pentagon report, titled "Iraqi Perspectives Project," is not being made public.

In Moscow, a duty officer with Russia's Foreign Ministry declined to comment on the report late Friday. No one answered the phones at the Defense Ministry.

A Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Barry Venable, referred inquiries seeking comment to Central Command. At Central Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., officials did not immediately respond to a request.

State Department spokesman Adam Ereli declined to comment.

In addition to citing the Iraqi documents on the matter of Russian intelligence, the report also directly asserted that an intelligence link existed.

"Significantly, the regime was also receiving intelligence from the Russians that fed suspicions that the attack out of Kuwait was merely a diversion," the report's authors wrote. They cited as an example a document that was sent to Saddam on March 24, 2003, and captured by the U.S. military after Baghdad fell.

The report said the Iraqi document was titled, "Letter from Russian official to presidential secretary concerning American intentions in Iraq." The Iraqi document said, "The information that the Russians have collected from their sources inside the American Central Command in Doha is that the United States is convinced that occupying Iraqi cities are impossible," and that as a result the U.S. military would avoid urban combat.

"The strategy is to isolate Iraq from its western borders," the document added.

Central Command's war-fighting headquarters is at an encampment in the desert just outside Doha, Qatar.

The lead author of the Pentagon report, Kevin Woods, told reporters at a briefing that he was surprised to learn that the Russians had passed intelligence to Saddam, and he said he had no reason to doubt the authenticity of the Iraqi documents.

"But I don't have any other knowledge of that topic," Woods added, referring to the Russian link.

Brig. Gen. Anthony Cucolo, who appeared with Woods and also was closely involved in the project, said he believed such a link reflected a long-standing close economic relationship between Moscow and Baghdad.

"I don't see it as an aberration," Cucolo said. "I see it as a follow-on to economic engagement and economic interests."

In the end, one piece of Russian intelligence actually contributed to an important U.S. military deception effort. By telling Saddam that the main attack on Baghdad would not begin until the Army's 4th Infantry Division arrived around April 15, the Russians reinforced an impression that U.S. commanders were trying to catch the Iraqis by surprise.

The attack on Baghdad began well before the 4th Infantry arrived, and the government collapsed quickly.

As originally planned by Gen. Tommy Franks, the Central Command chief who ran the war, the 4th Infantry was to attack into northern Iraq from Turkey, but the Turkish government refused to go along. Meanwhile the 4th Infantry's tanks and other equipment remained on ships in the eastern Mediterranean for weeks — a problem that Franks sought to turn into an advantage by attacking Baghdad without them.

Based on a captured Iraqi document — a memo to Saddam from his Ministry of Foreign Affairs, dated April 2 — Russian intelligence reported through its ambassador that the American forces were moving to cut off Baghdad from the south, east and north, with the heaviest concentration of troops in the Karbala area. It said the Americans had 12,000 troops in the area, along with 1,000 vehicles.

Indeed, Karbala was a major step on the U.S. invasion route along the Euphrates River to Baghdad. A key bridge over the Euphrates, near Karbala, was seized on April 2, permitting U.S. forces to approach Baghdad from the southwest before Iraq could move sufficient forces from the north.

The Pentagon report also said the Russians told the Iraqis that the Americans planned to concentrate on bombing in and around Baghdad, cutting the road to Syria and Jordan and creating enough confusion to force residents to flee.

The Pentagon report, designed to help U.S. officials understand in hindsight how Saddam and his military commanders prepared for and fought the war, paints a picture of an Iraqi government blind to the threat it faced, hampered by Saddam's inept military leadership and deceived by its own propaganda.

"The largest contributing factor to the complete defeat of Iraq's military forces was the continued interference by Saddam," the report said.
 
Just more proof that as time goes by, more and more countries are becoming enemies of the U.S. There is constant 'rumblings' that even Canada and England are no longer as friendly as they used to be. I find it troubling that we seem to have very little intelligence capacities in countries where we need it most, while our countries 'secrets' are well-known to them.

I fear the day of WWIII, for it may very well be fought on our soil.
 
WRONG!

Disagreeing about our policies or political ideologies is one thing, but consorting with and assisting the enemy about the planning of, the actions of, or assisting in the hiding or disposal of; IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE MATTER!!
 
sikma said:
Just more proof that as time goes by, more and more countries are becoming enemies of the U.S. There is constant 'rumblings' that even Canada and England are no longer as friendly as they used to be. I find it troubling that we seem to have very little intelligence capacities in countries where we need it most, while our countries 'secrets' are well-known to them.

I fear the day of WWIII, for it may very well be fought on our soil.

Maybe the fact that saddam was paying russia billions to keep a war from happening had something to do about it?

Canada has always disliked America, they are a socolist government. they only reson they play frieds is because they do not need any military with the US next door. If they pissed the US off freekin Jamacia could invade Canada and overthrow them. No one will attack Canada as long as they stay under the American militaries protection.

Plus it lets them spend all their tax money on the disaster that is their medical system. Look at their tax rate. why do people come to Ameirca if they need urgent medical care. How many people go to Canada for a operation?
 
charper1 said:
WRONG!

Disagreeing about our policies or political ideologies is one thing, but consorting with and assisting the enemy about the planning of, the actions of, or assisting in the hiding or disposal of; IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE MATTER!!

Right you are!

The problem with much of the world including Russia and Iraq is that they are so far behind us economically that will use any form of corruption available to them. Instead of blaming ourselves and feeling guilty about our success we need to export democracy/capitalism to as many places as we can so these places can stand on their own two feet. A tall order but it can be done.
 
Eric Goempel said:
Canada has always disliked America, they are a socolist government. they only reson they play frieds is because they do not need any military with the US next door. If they pissed the US off freekin Jamacia could invade Canada and overthrow them. No one will attack Canada as long as they stay under the American militaries protection.

Their proximity to America and the fact they need no real military is also the only reason they can afford national health care at all. You are right-left wingers rave about health care systems in Canada and Cuba but where does everyone come?

United States of course!
:flag:
 
W_Tracy_Parnell said:
Their proximity to America and the fact they need no real military is also the only reason they can afford national health care at all. You are right-left wingers rave about health care systems in Canada and Cuba but where does everyone come?

United States of course!
:flag:
And every Canadian I know is jealous of me because I can get in to see any doctor I want, whenever I want. When the government is paying for it, you see who they want you to see and when they want you to see them.
 
I know, lets pre-emptively strike Russia. Those F'ing bastards. While we're at it, lets send some drafted troops over to North Korea, I don't like how their eyes are slanty. In fact, I don't even like how those freeloaders in New Orleans live, lets drop a nuke down there too.

!sadroll


BTW I'm being sarcastic in case you couldn't tell.
 
HokieEngineer said:
I know, lets pre-emptively strike Russia. Those F'ing bastards. While we're at it, lets send some drafted troops over to North Korea, I don't like how their eyes are slanty. In fact, I don't even like how those freeloaders in New Orleans live, lets drop a nuke down there too.

!sadroll


BTW I'm being sarcastic in case you couldn't tell.


i do believe the good Lord took care of NO:eek:
 
dragon002 said:
i do believe the good Lord took care of NO:eek:

Whoa, you actually believe that? I guess all those innocent japanese had it coming in Hiroshima too, huh? Did God do that too? Or do you selectively apply God to events to fit your narrow bigoted view of the world?
 
I know, lets pre-emptively strike Russia. Those F'ing bastards. While we're at it, lets send some drafted troops over to North Korea, I don't like how their eyes are slanty. In fact, I don't even like how those freeloaders in New Orleans live, lets drop a nuke down there too.

you say it like those are bad things.
 
HokieEngineer said:
Whoa, you actually believe that? I guess all those innocent japanese had it coming in Hiroshima too, huh? Did God do that too? Or do you selectively apply God to events to fit your narrow bigoted view of the world?


innocent japs?????????

give me a break, and stop the kumbaya attitude!!


they (japan) attacked us, you win a war two ways, kill its military OR crush its peoples will to fight!

you libs hate us killing the insurgency in Iraq, you hated us winning so fast in BOTH gulf wars, so you are trying to defeat OUR troops HERE.
typical Jane Fonda moves!

bush is the pres for the next two years, we are in Iraq until we kill ALL the insurgents. we are not giving a time line, hell we didn't give Hitler or general lee one did we?

we are there until its over, end of story!!!
 
HokieEngineer said:
I know, lets pre-emptively strike Russia. Those F'ing bastards. While we're at it, lets send some drafted troops over to North Korea, I don't like how their eyes are slanty. In fact, I don't even like how those freeloaders in New Orleans live, lets drop a nuke down there too.

!sadroll


BTW I'm being sarcastic in case you couldn't tell.

Russia is selling nuke technology while America pays 100% of the bill to clean up and contain their nuks (because they wont do it).
I do not consider russia an ally.

And the people in NO that moved out ALL had an EQUAL chance to get jobs when they moved out to other places. Whyy is it that only the people that had jobs and homes in NO are the ones that got jobs elsewhere. The freeloaders kept right on being freeloaders.
 
If you want to nuke Russia, do it for the right reasons. If you think this is the right reason? (sounds good to me) You should also nuke Henry Kissinger. After all, he kept informing the U.N. (who in turn told the North Vietnamese) what every move General Westmoreland was up to. When he figured this out and stopped telling the Secretary of State his every move, Kissinger got tee-d off and tried to get Westmoreland fired. But hey, I wouldn't have a problem with you nuking Kissinger either. In fact, why don't we nuke Israel why we're at it. They attacked the USS Liberty (the most advanced intelligence ship of the time) in the 60's, with the pretense to blame the Egyptians and get the US into the war that Bush has finally managed to create for us. Don't you just love American Politicians. Personally, I think if we're going to nuke anybody, it should be those b'st'rds in Ten Square Mile.

Al
 
dragon002 said:
innocent japs?????????

give me a break, and stop the kumbaya attitude!!


they (japan) attacked us, you win a war two ways, kill its military OR crush its peoples will to fight!

you libs hate us killing the insurgency in Iraq, you hated us winning so fast in BOTH gulf wars, so you are trying to defeat OUR troops HERE.
typical Jane Fonda moves!

bush is the pres for the next two years, we are in Iraq until we kill ALL the insurgents. we are not giving a time line, hell we didn't give Hitler or general lee one did we?

we are there until its over, end of story!!!

Japanese military attacked us. We killed around 140,000 with one bomb. Most of those were civilians.

You make many false assertions. Why would liberals hate all the things you say? There would be no insurgents if we had not invaded Iraq in the first place. Now we are stuck occupying a country with multiple factions who all dislike each other. BILLIONS of dollars have been spent, with very little results. I would argue we could have improved our borders and domestic infrastructure with that money. Money that is being used to rebuild Iraqi streets and buildings.

War is not the answer, and an increasing percentage of Americans are finally realizing that.
 
HokieEngineer said:
Japanese military attacked us. We killed around 140,000 with one bomb. Most of those were civilians.

You make many false assertions. Why would liberals hate all the things you say? There would be no insurgents if we had not invaded Iraq in the first place. Now we are stuck occupying a country with multiple factions who all dislike each other. BILLIONS of dollars have been spent, with very little results. I would argue we could have improved our borders and domestic infrastructure with that money. Money that is being used to rebuild Iraqi streets and buildings.

War is not the answer, and an increasing percentage of Americans are finally realizing that.

So in WWII after VE day, and staring down a showdown with Japan, knowing that we were going to lose hundreds of thousands of lives, (I believe the predicted number was 1 million), because the Japanese were a more determined enemy, we should have pulled out, right? Because we had already defeated Germany with our allies, and lost 200,000 young hero's... right? Wrong, and its the same here with the insurgency in Iraq. We are fighting insurgency led by a man (Zarqawi) who is working with Bin Laden, who happens to be the man who planned numerous attacks on us in the the US, the last of which killed 3,000 men and women. So war is not the answer? What is the answer. For every person who is so critical about this war right now, they don't have a policy to keep the insurgents on the run the way they are now. You cannot leave now, and let them run that country. It will be in the same shape it was when Saddam was leading it. Don't you understand that?

And thank God that President Truman made the decision to protect all those projected number of dead American young men's lives before invading Japan by dropping the A Bomb. He was only carrying out orders that FDR was planning all along. I wish democrats today had the sack that FDR, Hoover, and JFK had when it came to securing and protecting our country. I do not agree with most of their policies, but they were right on when it came to protecting freedom. No democrat in office today has a sack like that.
 
HokieEngineer said:
Japanese military attacked us. We killed around 140,000 with one bomb. Most of those were civilians.

it saved thousands of American Lives and should be done again if the case is presented. I find the enemy very similar in Iraq. Both were brainwashed zombies that would follow their "leaders" to heaven. Very similar. I dont consider those populations as Civilian, I consider them unrecruited combatants and terrorists at the time.
 
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