TimeTrax Must Release Fixit Patch for Software Right Now

[ChuckNoblett]

TimeTrax's requirement that a computer be connected 24/7 to their home servers via the internet to address the company's own piracy paranoia is, and I think I'm being fair here, ridicuous. There is no other way to put it.

Should the smalliest problem occur -- home servers going down (tonight), ISP problems, home LAN problems, other internet connection issues -- the software completely shuts down and all chance to record is simply lost. Consequently, the reliability of recordings are shot and the product becomes practically useless since no one would rely on it to record.

The idea that this hugely looming problem is actually purposefully built into the software is baffling. Frankly, it erodes confidence in the company's comptence to release and support a workable product.

A small simple patch (just needs to a be few lines) should be released tonight to remove this crazy connection requirement code from the executable. We've all spent considerably sums of money on this product, and it should be fixed, and fixed now.

Moreover, a Beta was actually released that appeared to ignore this, by far, the biggest problem. It was largely cosmetic, with a few extra features, which might be neat, but its clearly like upgrading the upholstery on a car with an engine that's shutting down. I'm not sure what to say at this point.

Please address this problem immediately, and don't reply with something like "we're examining the problem and considering solutions." The solution is very easy. Release the patch to dump the connectivity requirement code.

 

[sflocco]

TimeTrax's requirement that a computer be connected 24/7 to their home servers via the internet to address the company's own piracy paranoia is, and I think I'm being fair here, ridicuous. There is no other way to put it.
Should the smalliest problem occur -- home servers going down (tonight), ISP problems, home LAN problems, other internet connection issues -- the software completely shuts down and all chance to record is simply lost. Consequently, the reliability of recordings are shot and the product becomes practically useless since no one would rely on it to record.
The idea that this hugely looming problem is actually purposefully built into the software is baffling. Frankly, it erodes confidence in the company's comptence to release and support a workable product.
A small simple patch (just needs to a be few lines) should be released tonight to remove this crazy connection requirement code from the executable. We've all spent considerably sums of money on this product, and it should be fixed, and fixed now.
Moreover, a Beta was actually released that appeared to ignore this, by far, the biggest problem. It was largely cosmetic, with a few extra features, which might be neat, but its clearly like upgrading the upholstery on a car with an engine that's shutting down. I'm not sure what to say at this point.
Please address this problem immediately, and don't reply with something like "we're examining the problem and considering solutions." The solution is very easy. Release the patch to dump the connectivity requirement code.

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. You're product is not reliable under the current way it constantly must update. I paid $169.00 + shipping. For this product and this is the second time in less than a month that it's been an issue. HOW ABOUT THINKING ABOUT SERVING THE HONEST PEOPLE THAT PAID FOR THE PRODUCT, RATHER THAN PUTTING ALL ENERGY INTO STOPPING PIRACY. DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

[dkieffer]

unfair basis for your comments

Your comments, attitude and presumptions couldn't be more incorrect and misdirected.

First and foremost, the requirement for internet access is not predicated, nor was included in the software for the primary purpose of security. That being said, it is, and will remain one part of our larger strategy to ensure an effective and
reasonable effort to prevent piracy.

A general accusation of "paranoia" about piracy is false. Paranoia is a "disorder characterized by delusions of persecution." In the 3 months ending 12/31, Time Trax logged 482 significant security events that required action. Those ranged from extensive continuing efforts to circumvent registration requiring payment as well as disabling and denial of service attacks aimed at preventing anyone from learning about, purchasing, downloading, contacting or using our products to work the way that they are designed. So many resources have had to be dedicated to protecting our rights to produce and sell our products and your rights to use them, that it will continue to be a challenge to fund those efforts. I would say that a huge effort to protect the company, software, employees and customers is warranted and far from paranoia.

Finally, as I've communicated, we have aknowledged and recognized that users have had issues with the dependency on being able to 'see' the Time Trax home servers. As always, we have taken those comments seriously. As a matter-of-fact, some major steps have indeed been taken in the most recent version of Recast to mitigate and hopefully minimize the problems that users are experiencing. Based on our tests, and working directly with a group of customers that reported related problems, the adjustments have seemed to completely solve the problems in 100% of these cases.

Please note, that the changes by no means eliminate the requirement for an internet connection. Larger and more involved changes are planned for the future that will provide users even more options and flexibility.

We need and want to know if there are still problems with normal operation of the software with the average home internet connection. Please report them here and open a support ticket if you are willing to help us troubleshoot and you want us to work with you to address any issue that you are having.

Internet access is disclosed as a requirement for the software, however if you are unable to use your Time Trax purchase the way you want - for any reason - within the first 30 days, I will arrange for a full refund of the price you paid for the product.

TimeTrax Recast is no longer a niche product that a couple hundred people count on. Hundreds of thousands of customers use Recast, and we hope to provide a great product, great customer service and ultimately a product that our customers are completely satisified with. Your constructive assistance will help us get that done.

David K.
Time Trax

 

[PhuckNut]

Your comments, attitude and presumptions couldn't be more incorrect and misdirected.
First and foremost, the requirement for internet access is not predicated, nor was included in the software for the primary purpose of security. That being said, it is, and will remain one part of our larger strategy to ensure an effective and
reasonable effort to prevent piracy.
A general accusation of "paranoia" about piracy is false. Paranoia is a "disorder characterized by delusions of persecution." In the 3 months ending 12/31, Time Trax logged 482 significant security events that required action. Those ranged from extensive continuing efforts to circumvent registration requiring payment as well as disabling and denial of service attacks aimed at preventing anyone from learning about, purchasing, downloading, contacting or using our products to work the way that they are designed. So many resources have had to be dedicated to protecting our rights to produce and sell our products and your rights to use them, that it will continue to be a challenge to fund those efforts. I would say that a huge effort to protect the company, software, employees and customers is warranted and far from paranoia.
Finally, as I've communicated, we have aknowledged and recognized that users have had issues with the dependency on being able to 'see' the Time Trax home servers. As always, we have taken those comments seriously. As a matter-of-fact, some major steps have indeed been taken in the most recent version of Recast to mitigate and hopefully minimize the problems that users are experiencing. Based on our tests, and working directly with a group of customers that reported related problems, the adjustments have seemed to completely solve the problems in 100% of these cases.
Please note, that the changes by no means eliminate the requirement for an internet connection. Larger and more involved changes are planned for the future that will provide users even more options and flexibility.
We need and want to know if there are still problems with normal operation of the software with the average home internet connection. Please report them here and open a support ticket if you are willing to help us troubleshoot and you want us to work with you to address any issue that you are having.
Internet access is disclosed as a requirement for the software, however if you are unable to use your Time Trax purchase the way you want - for any reason - within the first 30 days, I will arrange for a full refund of the price you paid for the product.
TimeTrax Recast is no longer a niche product that a couple hundred people count on. Hundreds of thousands of customers use Recast, and we hope to provide a great product, great customer service and ultimately a product that our customers are completely satisified with. Your constructive assistance will help us get that done.
David K.
Time Trax

I wasn't going to - but here I am anyways... I am sorry, you logged about 500 security events, but then tell us that Hundreds of Thousands are using your product.

So, you are saying that, 100,000 sold x 44.99 = 4.49 M $ in sales, vs. 500 users trying to possibly get it for free = 22, 495$ in possible LOSS.
(as I am unaware of the 500 security events actually are - I have to assume make an assumption)

Now - obviously, you are trying to PROTECT and keep that 4.49M $ in sales and grow it without losing the larger number of people to hacks and cracks.

I just needed to put this into a perspective for US customers as we are the ones feeling the PAIN of the required internet connection.

In all honesty, I feel that Paranoia fits, because with more than 100K units sold you are spending a lot of time and energy with the internet requirement which hurts us more than the hackers. When you could just be spending more time on a more secure registration process and not require the phone - homes to double check registration as you go.

You have your reasons, but as you can see, there is a need for you to implement that double redundancy data center solution with a round-robin approach with DNS and server names in order to over come this single data center/server failure.

I hope you have a plan for that soon. (please?)

 

[Dr.Woo]

I would like to add that there a lot of programs that cost a whole lot more to purchase that do not require 24/7 internet to continue valid operation.

Perhaps having a much less stringent time frame for re-validation would be adequate for those who wish to operate away from a network. This would widen the potential customer base to dial-up only access too...or is the internet connection used for more than keeping the program alive?

 

[dkieffer]

Like I said, as far as I can tell, some changes to the most recent version have addressed almost every open related issue that we are aware of.

Let us know what your experiences have been and if there have been any seemlingly associated problems.

PN, your suggestion about redundancy is dead-on. As we speak, there are two completely seperate data centers and networks with registration services availability now. There is both an infrastructure based system for load balancing and fail over, and there is also intelligence built into the application itself. We're hopeful that as we tweak the systems this will help in many situations but unfortunately there is probably a likelihood that we will still be vulnerable to ceratain types of attacks.

David K.

 

[PhuckNut]

Like I said, as far as I can tell, some changes to the most recent version have addressed almost every open related issue that we are aware of.
Let us know what your experiences have been and if there have been any seemlingly associated problems.
PN, your suggestion about redundancy is dead-on. As we speak, there are two completely seperate data centers and networks with registration services availability now. There is both an infrastructure based system for load balancing and fail over, and there is also intelligence built into the application itself. We're hopeful that as we tweak the systems this will help in many situations but unfortunately there is probably a likelihood that we will still be vulnerable to ceratain types of attacks.
David K.

Load Balancers - Load Balancers - Load Balancers.

If you are this serious in undertaking such an insane approach to internet connectivity, the I have to suggest you create multiple data centers with multiple load balancers. Creating logic based upon your 500 attack information you should be able to defeat DoS attacks.

 

[coorsleftfield]

David,

First of all, thanks for taking time to be active in this support thead, it's a great resource.

Here are my thoughts, I'm a new, paying, timetrax customer. I understand your need for copy protection, but I have one big worry about your current scheme.
The way Timetrax has enabled copy protection has given the RIAA one nice convient "off" switch, should they win any kind of court injunction against you. Then the software which I legally paid for will cease to function.

No one can say if this will ever happen, but I think with all of the on-going court action they have been doing, Timetrax would have to admit that it's possible.
It would be much better to do some kind of one time Internet activation, and then it just works after that, so if you do get any kind of court order to cease, your loyal paying customers won't get screwed.

 

[ChuckNoblett]

Your comments, attitude and presumptions couldn't be more incorrect and misdirected.

OK. To clarify, I'm a paying customer that actually likes the core of what the product can accomplish that merely said a 24/7 internet connection policy to combat piracy was irrational, especially given the massive reliability recording concerns it would cause. Beyong paying for the product, I even stretch 50 feet of ethernet wire accross two rooms of my house just to get this to work, because wireless connectivity (B, G and A) is so spotty with many users in my area.

Just to let you know from a paying customer's perspective (and this is echo'd on the board), there is virtually no way to come even marginally close to reliable recordings with 24/7 internet connection to TT's home servers required. A wide vareity of things can interrupt that for long periods of time. Such as TT's home servers having issues (which just happened again last night), ISP technical issues (or an ISP just going down for upgrades), problems with a home router or NIC card, software issues with other applications re internet access, other computers on a home LAN using up the bandwidth for other activities, etc. And forget wireless if many others closeby have wireless routers (constant cut outs).

With the 24/7 connectivity requirement, an otherwise very reliabile product becomes extremely unreliable, such that it cannot be trusted to consistently record. The product goes from one where people can expect that recordings occurred consistentlly, to one where its a dicey proposition, and iits a "bonus" if everything worked out OK.

First and foremost, the requirement for internet access is not predicated, nor was included in the software for the primary purpose of security.

I don't want to get into a tit-for-tar about this, but on this thread re the continuing registration requirements that need such connectivity, you said "The continuing registration verifications were implemented after the big security incident. It was part of a larger plan that involved lots of other changes to quickly regain control over unregistered versions that were out there."

It doesn't really matter whether its the "primary purpose" or not?

Again, to clarify, I'm not the enemy. I'm a paying customer that loves the product concept and many things it does, but am just baffled by a self-imposed restriction that essentially anhilate reliability implemented for reasons entierly unneeded to maximize product utility. That's all.

That being said, it is, and will remain one part of our larger strategy to ensure an effective and
reasonable effort to prevent piracy.

Yes. This is what I said above that was characterized as "incorrect" and "misdirected."

A general accusation of "paranoia" about piracy is false. Paranoia is a "disorder characterized by delusions of persecution." In the 3 months ending 12/31, Time Trax logged 482 significant security events that required action. Those ranged from extensive continuing efforts to circumvent registration requiring payment as well as disabling and denial of service attacks aimed at preventing anyone from learning about, purchasing, downloading, contacting or using our products to work the way that they are designed. So many resources have had to be dedicated to protecting our rights to produce and sell our products and your rights to use them, that it will continue to be a challenge to fund those efforts. I would say that a huge effort to protect the company, software, employees and customers is warranted and far from paranoia. . .

Hundreds of thousands of customers use Recast, and we hope to provide a great product, great customer service and ultimately a product that our customers are completely satisified with.

First of all, I don't want to sound like a insensitive, but I think you just reinforced the "paranoia" aspect yourself.

Hundreds of thousands of these have been sold (understandable, as the core of the product is pretty cool), but only 482 total "significant security events" occurred in a quarter, and these even included non-piracy events, like denial of service attacks?

The 24./7 intrernet connectivity issue isn't going to help with Denial of Service attacks. And it sounds like the total number of attempts at piracy is, if you'll excuse me, not particularly overwhelming given that this occurs with all software.

And certainly not enough to warrant the introduction of a shaky unreliable 24/7 internet connectivity requirement to an otherwise reliable product.

Finally, as I've communicated, we have aknowledged and recognized that users have had issues with the dependency on being able to 'see' the Time Trax home servers. As always, we have taken those comments seriously. As a matter-of-fact, some major steps have indeed been taken in the most recent version of Recast to mitigate and hopefully minimize the problems that users are experiencing. Based on our tests, and working directly with a group of customers that reported related problems, the adjustments have seemed to completely solve the problems in 100% of these cases.
Please note, that the changes by no means eliminate the requirement for an internet connection. Larger and more involved changes are planned for the future that will provide users even more options and flexibility.

Now that sounds interesting. I'd really like to hear some more details.

What was done to mitigate the problems associated with the connectivity in the lastest version? What are the larger and more involved changes?

For example, from my perspective, reliability could be increased close to 100% again with, say, just requiring internet connectivity every time you start the Recast application (even though this still seems like overikill). That way, one could be around to personally shepherd startups with connections to the home servers. Later as the product operates and the user is not present , if internet connectivity lapses occurred during usage, recording would still continue reliabiy, until the next time the application was started and needed to connect again.

Finally, I would like to add that, while TT did miss some recordings this weekend becuase of the this 24/7 requirement (and also in the past), it did record the Stern show this mroning for me.

 

[mahogany]

Congrats. you got Howard, I did not. CRASH

 

[jgaetz]

whoah

100s of thousands use recast? As in more than 200,000 installations? And you guys are having hissy fits over 482 "security incidents" over 3 months? Anyone else realize that one good DOS attack on the TT authentication/validation server would make Recast not work for hundreds of thousands of people? And this is an acceptable mode of business operation because of 482 "security incidents" spread over 3 months?

I've gotta say, you got me once. I read the requirements and understood them to mean you'd need an internet connection to register the product. Given the internet at large is a fairly unreliable beast and the TTRecast software bails out if it ever can't talk to momma for 15 seconds, this software is at best a gimmick. You can put me down as going to demand my money back the first time TT doesn't record Howard Stern because of this insane internet connectivity requirement. In fact, given how stable the internet is, you might as well start processing my refund now.

 

[PhuckNut]

You can put me down as going to demand my money back the first time TT doesn't record Howard Stern because of this insane internet connectivity requirement. In fact, given how stable the internet is, you might as well start processing my refund now.

Just remember its gotta fail you in the first 30 days of ownership or else there is no refund. Good Luck Bro.

 

[Dr.Woo]

Well, I think we (your customers) have intelligently expressed our concerns, and some possible ways to change or modify the 24/7 Internet requirement. How do I know if the reason my recordings failed is due to Internet interruption, or just an occasional bug? All I know is that what I expected to happen, didn't, and maybe caused the program to lock-up. Even a VNC connection won't help re-start because the priority thread is so high, only a physically forced power off will reset the machine.

Of course, I agree the core product is very cool! Let's just concentrate on getting the reliability up and the bugs out... Thanks guys!

 

[dkieffer]

Everyone has spent a great deal of time continuing to attack the requirement for internet connectivity. The concerns have been noted and as far as we can tell, we have addressed the problems that it has caused.

If you have upgraded to 1.5 and have had any problems that you suspect are related to internet connectivity issues, let us know and we can work with you to determine if that is the source of your problems and address it if necessary.

An internet connection is still required, however the fault tolerance and timing of required connections have been increased dramatically - the application should try to contact the registration servers much less frequently, and one instance of a problem connecting should not cause the application to stop working.

This is the short term - quick fix. I am not going to talk about the bigger picture on how we plan to register and verify users.

I have avoided talking about what upcoming 'advanced features' will use internet connectivity, not because we're trying not to disclose them, but because in the past, when we discussed what specific plans were, people got rightfully frustrated if they were expecting a feature that then didn't make it into the release for one reason or another.

To use one example, right now, the grab and filter lists when activated will apply to whatever channel you are tuned to when you hit 'record.' This is because the data on what is playing on other channels is not quite exactly real time, wch would not get the channel changed quickly enough to get a full recording. (we can discuss the specifics of this issue, other solutions and the merits of this one of our ideas in another thread if desired). If I say have 'Britney Spears' on my grab list, anytime that Britney Spears plays on the channel I am tuned to record, Recast will save that track for me. We are planning to provide intelligent access to a database that will allow the system to make recommendations and even channel changes to the channel most likely to play as many of your 'grabs' as possible and as few of your 'filters' as possible.

This is one example of many. That is why in the past, I've said, a user can opt-out of features that will require the internet connection. If this feature is not of interest to you, then you don't have to have it turned on. There are numerous others built and being planned.

Finally, the concern about the ability to turn off our users is a great concern. We have a plan whereby someone not affiliated or connected to Time Trax has the ability to 'pull-the-plug' on the registration requirement. There are some other ideas that we are considering and I consider this personally to be an ongoing open issue always to stay on top of.

We are working hard here. Christmas, Stern, CES and TraxCatcher have kept us all going close to 20 hours a day for two months. Everyone is back from Vegas and we are ready to take a deep breath, get a nights sleep and code, package, design, ship and support everyone with 100% of our effort and attention.

If anyohas open tickets that have been sitting longer for 48 hours, PM me and I will get them looked at ASAP.

Hope all this info help.

David K.
Time Trax

 

[ChuckNoblett]

How about what I suggested?

That is, require internet connectivity everytime you start the application, but not require it 24/7.

That way, the user can shepherd the application during startup to make sure everything connects, and then it can safely be left on for the next day or however long the computer is left on (or, really, the application is up) without the current reliability nightmares.

That would also help people with wireless routers that have major issues on top of the rest of ours, because of the additional concerns with conflicting wireless routers. Just make sure everything connects during startup, and you can let it roll after that. Wireless router sales are really taking off, so this would be a huge issue going forward.

Also, isn't version 1.5 still Beta? If so, i don't want to risk further recording reliability using a non-final product.

 

[sflocco]

All's I know is that before I paid $169 for this product. I used Easy-HI Q recording software to record Stern from the radio and never had a problem with it starting and recording what it was supposed to record. I got my Sirius through this product and now today because of the channel changing issue my recording was from the previous channel I had on because it didn't change. This product has alot of issues. It sounds great advertised, but the promise of what it does and it actually doing what it's supposed to do are two different things. So now I realize I can't have the recorder change channels from one station to another and rely on it to record.

 

[ChuckNoblett]

I have avoided talking about what upcoming 'advanced features' will use internet connectivity, not because we're trying not to disclose them, but because in the past, when we discussed what specific plans were, people got rightfully frustrated if they were expecting a feature that then didn't make it into the release for one reason or another. . . .

This is one example of many. That is why in the past, I've said, a user can opt-out of features that will require the internet connection. If this feature is not of interest to you, then you don't have to have it turned on. There are numerous others built and being planned.

Any word on progress here?

The internet connectivity issue dumped yet more of my recordings yesterday.

 

[PhuckNut]

Considering the mess we just delt with for this whole official release. I am not sure I wanna rush them into anything. There was some mistake made with that last release that obviously wasn't something easy to fix considering they did not even re-release the 1.5 software.

Granted - they should fix it. But with the current track record, I would think we wait and see and deal with the crap...

Just my opinion.

 

[Dr.Woo]

I agree...a quick fix is what we want, but a reliable one is what is really needed! When it works, it is GREAT! When you go and check for the recordings...and find that the radio is on and working just fine, but the software dropped out of action...phooey!

I know I lost 1 major event due to my ISP (or router) dropping my connection at some point before it was to begin. Would it be too much to have it check the server when the software starts up, and then runs without it for at least a day? I I also have not been able to recover gently from lock-ups...no amount of "ending the process" through task manager, has been effective. I always have to kill the whole machine by holding in the power button to force it off. This is annoying to say the least...no way to cycle the machine remotely or even automatically if Windows cannot control itself.

 

[onapartyrock]

Wow, glad I read this.

I still am using my old version of the software that was pre-Sirius and required no Internet connection. I don't have broadband, can't get it and am away from home for months at a time.

Guess I'm stuck with using good-old Time Trax ver 3.2; last time I rebooted the computer it was on for 4 months and not one crash! Luckly I have Audible.com that gives me the Opie and Anthony show for $60 a year and use 3.2 as a backup incase there is another "Show we can never talk about" (You know the one where the police came to the studio) or another on air fight that gets cut from the replay.

The idea of verification at startup only makes great sense though.