TIVO Edge + Remote TIVO Mini Vox connection FAQ

[TheForce]

Local Fox 30 has been off the air most of the afternoon. I went to their internet site and saw it was up but intermittent. They rand a popup from time to time announcing they are experiencing transmission problems on the feed. Please be patient as we will return to air shortly.

The TIVO Edge responded with it's popup assuming all the channels were down and to check signal. Well if I get one channel I should get them all. They are also running a text crawl explaining they are having a dispute with Dish Network but have decided to keep the channel on the air for the weekend as a show of good faith to get Dish Network to agree to negotiate. I didn't get my locals from Dish so the outage wouldn't have affected me. So they keep the channel up for Dish Network and then it goes down for everybody. Kind of funny. With Fubo TV, I have options of OTA or IPTV for locals at no extra charge.

 

[harshness]

Doesn't explain why it's been on the Bolt for quite a while.

That the Bolt was released a little over eleven months four years prior to the Edge may have something to do with it.

 

[TheForce]

I rescanned my OTA channels and discovered our local Fox30 now has two digital channels for the main FOX plus sub channels in SD. One is dark and the other is showing up in HD and is now active. The guide lists them as WFOXDT and WFOX30. WFOXDT is dark and WFOX30 is back on the air this evening. Clearly Friday 17th there are changes in this local station's transmission. I just can't tell what is happening with the info on the TIVO EDGE. I still have the FOX app to access the local station's broadcast via the internet. I didn't notice any updated firmware for the TIVO Edge. But, according to Fox local station info the WFOXDT is a digital transmission for sports events and will light up Saturday the 18th and Sunday 26th. WFOX30 is the regular programming including the sports events but in regular HD.

 

[harshness]

rabbitears.info indicates that WFOX had three channels: FOX in 720p (30.1) and myNetworkTV, MeTV (sharing 30.2) and Heroes and Icons (30.3) in 480i. There is also a note that the station had a construction permit going on RF channel 14 that expired yesterday so it looks like they may have executed their repack.

If they upgraded their modulator they may be shooting for two 720p channels but I'm not sure they can change channel configurations on the fly if you're implying that they're going to do that on the weekends.

 

[TheForce]

Not implying anything. Just making observations. I don't know about that 720P because it is the best looking 720P60 x 1280 I have ever seen. The subchannels 30.2 and 30.3, I don't have active in the guide as I never watch them but I did check and they are still broadcasting different programming but they look really SD for sure. Probably 480P30.

 

[harshness]

I don't know about that 720P because it is the best looking 720P60 x 1280 I have ever seen.

The FOX mother ship is still sending out a 720p signal. That hasn't changed and likely won't change throughout the entire FOX stable of HD channels. I will say that some affiliates have been known to convert to 1080i but that seems unlikely to improve anything at the TV end. What they do with their ipcasts may ultimately be different but the HD stuff is currently 720p and as we know the UHD content is 1080p upconverted to 2160.

Your affiliate may be using a more efficient multiplexer (possibly even AVC compression) to deliver a less compromised product than before. That should remain the case until they start crowding DTV stations together (lighthousing) to deploy NEXTGEN TV.

Rest assured that the widespread deployment of NEXTGEN TV will not happen without everyone knowing about it as most stations are planning to use their post-repack RF frequencies for their NEXTGEN TV signal.

Probably 480P30.

The available documents say 480i wide screen. 480p (frame rates from 24 to 60) is in the standard (A/53, part 4) but I haven't run across anyone using it for broadcast thus far.

 

[TheForce]

The two FOX 30 DT and FOX 30 HD seem to be a TIVO pecularity. I decided to connect an antenna to a TV and scan for channels and it only receives the FOX 30 HD. I will rescan the TV during the next scheduled broadcast sports event hopefully when it is on. A rescan now with no signal on WFOXDT and that channel disappeared. Do you think our local FOX station is testing a new broadcast channel. The scan shows it is not 30 but on 19.

The TIVO remained dark on WFOXDT when it was supposed to be on today for a basketball game. When I did the scan to make it show up there was strong signal on WFOX DT. Now zero.

The TV is absent any upconversion devices so I was able to confirm that FOX30 HD is indeed 720P so nothing has changed for that channel. The TIVO Edge appears to be doing the upconversion to 4K on all programming. The 30.2 and 30.3 are 480i on the TV.

 

[harshness]

The two FOX 30 DT and FOX 30 HD seem to be a TIVO pecularity.

It could take TiVo a while to deal with an RF channel change as TiVo users have lamented in the past.

I decided to connect an antenna to a TV and scan for channels and it only receives the FOX 30 HD. I will rescan the TV during the next scheduled broadcast sports event hopefully when it is on. A rescan now with no signal on WFOXDT and that channel disappeared.

This is a good diagnostic plan and, as a bonus for me, it seems to substantially confirm my theories. I predict that you'll find no changes for sporting events.

Do you think our local FOX station is testing a new broadcast channel. The scan shows it is not 30 but on 19.

I'm theorizing that WFOX has made their repack move from RF32 to RF14 and TiVo hasn't caught up yet. I'm not sure where channel 19 comes from.

The TV is absent any upconversion devices so I was able to confirm that FOX30 HD is indeed 720P so nothing has changed for that channel. The TIVO Edge appears to be doing the upconversion to 4K on all programming. The 30.2 and 30.3 are 480i on the TV.

This speaks to the importance of not judging these things visually. Its great that it looks better than you remember (the reason A-B comparisons are important) but it isn't sound to attribute it to a fundamental change in the pixel format; especially when there's one or more conversions (sometimes both up and down) in play. If they've made changes to their modulation, the picture may really be better than it was but it is still 720p.

 

[TheForce]

I'm not sure where channel 19 comes from.

That might be my error. I just saw it at a glance on the info popup but it could have been 32 and 14. I'll look more closely later today.
Yep! It is 14 for WFOXDT and has picture and 32 for WFOXHD.
Program is on 14 but the guide is on ch 32 Both list as 30-1. 14 is WFOXDT. The LG TV set does not detect WFOXDT. It detects WFOXHD. The Guide is only PSIP.

The TV I connected is a 27" LG 3D I bought from South Korea because you can't get 3D TV's in the US anymore. It's in English but the remote control labels are in Korean. Not fare to compare a 27" image with a 92" wide image.


other matter:
I read a report from a Sony Projector model VPL VW695ES owner with ATV 4K with Disney+ and he still has the same problem with black screen. So newer model doesn't fix the problem either.

 

[Derwin0]

I rescanned my OTA channels and discovered our local Fox30 now has two digital channels for the main FOX plus sub channels in SD. One is dark and the other is showing up in HD and is now active. The guide lists them as WFOXDT and WFOX30. WFOXDT is dark and WFOX30 is back on the air this evening. Clearly Friday 17th there are changes in this local station's transmission. I just can't tell what is happening with the info on the TIVO EDGE. I still have the FOX app to access the local station's broadcast via the internet. I didn't notice any updated firmware for the TIVO Edge. But, according to Fox local station info the WFOXDT is a digital transmission for sports events and will light up Saturday the 18th and Sunday 26th. WFOX30 is the regular programming including the sports events but in regular HD.

Did they do a repack in your market? When they did one in the Atlanta market, it messed up my channels similarly for a couple of them. Took a week or so for Tivo to figure it out and update their listings accordingly.

If there is an asterix beside the channel name, it means it found it via a scan, and that Tivo's database doesn't have it there for your market. As harshness mentioned, Tivo is slow on updating after a market repack.

 

[TheForce]

Did they do a repack in your market? When they did one in the Atlanta market, it messed up my channels similarly for a couple of them. Took a week or so for Tivo to figure it out and update their listings accordingly.

If there is an asterix beside the channel name, it means it found it via a scan, and that Tivo's database doesn't have it there for your market. As harshness mentioned, Tivo is slow on updating after a market repack.

I believe Harshness thinks that is what the problem is. Actually, I was not familiar with the term "repack" It seems the FCC has required over 1000 TV stations to change frequency to squeeze them into a smaller band in a market so they can sell the open band to other uses. So this is likely what the problem is by the two frequencies showing up but only one is now active. If I had FOX station high on my DVR priority list it would be more annoying but not impossible to watch. Not sure how it affects the DVR "To Do list but I have nothing on it for DVR anyway.
Current plan is just to wait out TIVO for them to update and I will do a rescan every couple days ( Not sure if that is necessary) . This all started last Friday, so not sure how long TIVO takes to update their guide.

 

[harshness]

The current repack is the third such effort to reduce the number of TV channels (so the spectrum could be used for other things). This one took the biggest swat with 24 channels taken away. The first whack lopped off channels 70-82. The repack after the DTV conversion brought the top channel down to 51 (where we're at today).

Phase 7 ended on January 17th.

We're currently at phase eight of ten of the current repack where phase 10 is mostly Canadian stations.

 

[TheForce]

harshness, you seem to be up on all these changes. Either you work in the Broadcast business engineering or you google alot. Do you know if the channel guide services have tiers that our subscribed services buy? When I had Dish Network the guide was good for 9 days. TIVO extends out to 2 weeks. PSIP (free) I thought was only 48 hours. I wonder what other services offer in the guide future.

 

[TheForce]

Got this response from an old BE friend here in town:

DTV Reception Maps

www.fcc.gov

 

[harshness]

Do you know if the channel guide services have tiers that our subscribed services buy?

I don't work in OTA broadcast. My productions have always gone out on cable. I'm just really good with building Google queries.

The MPVD's contract with the guide service uniquely determines what the provider has available to them. How many days is likely governed by how much RAM is available in their most lowly supported DVR model. There is surely a trade-off between days and detail (unless they hyperlink some of the data to the web).

PSIP data can accomodate 128 events (up to 16 days). Stations get to choose. 24 events is the minimum and ATSC best practices suggest three days worth.

 

[TheForce]

I kind of figured you worked in the business. We're pretty much the same background. I did pass my First class FCC license back in '69 and worked as a substitute transmitter engineer at an FM station. Couldn't work full time because of my military calls away. After a career in chemicals, I started TV production and most were local cable shows too, but I did a couple national TV shows as show's editor: Designer's Landscape on PBS, American Angler on ABC. My big one was TV Shopper which was on a cable channel airing from NY to Florida, I was associate producer and technical director. It was my first really big project as I did all the production and my partner was just on air talent and did the sales. Retired from the rat race in 2005 and a year later my former partner died of a heart attack. First me then him. Today I just have fun as a consumer hobbyist shooting video of my travels, nothing fancy.

 

[harshness]

My career is IT but one of my hobbies is live video production. It all started in college when someone at the campus TV station (KBVR) saw a 5-1/4" floppy disc from their new Quantafont character generator and thought of me and my Commodore 64. I enrolled in Journalism 351F (TV News Production) and the rest is history. Most of my activity these days is gubmint meetings and school concerts (including state championship competition) with an occasional athletic event. I even operated the home stretch camera for horse racing once.