Totally new event regarding RTN feeds on 83W AMC 9

Status
Please reply by conversation.

AcWxRadar

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Apr 26, 2006
4,575
4
40 miles NW of Omaha. Omaha?
It is 10:00 a.m. CT on Friday 5/1/2009

I tuned into the RTN feeds (both) and detected a carrier with the same levels as I normally receive, but "No Audio/Video" on my Coolsat 5000.

I performed a Blind Scan with FREQ = 10.700 - 12.200, SR = DETAIL, POL = ALL and MODE set to FREE. Nothing was picked up except the NBC NEWS CHANNEL AMC9/3F with color bars and test tone @ 88% quality.

The TP ID now shows LEO - 1 The signal level is 81% and the Quality is 69%.

I manually scanned this TP and and picked up one channel - Video 1 (which is new for me). It has the same SL and SQ readings that I had from RTN. It displays color bars and test tone only at this time.

TP 11.735 GHz, SR 4.444 MS/s, pol H.

Did I miss something since yesterday?

Thank you

RADAR
 
I know nothing and it's driving me nuts!

If you missed something, I missed it too.
And I was online most of the evening. :D

Not that it makes much difference, but try scanning in All Mode instead of Free.
Helps when debugging, IMHO. Except on Echo/Nimiq birds! :p

I wonder if our mystery feed uplinker finally upped his power and drowned RTN right out. :confused: :mad:
 
I have had a mystery signal interfering with RTN for a while now.

It has been at either TP 11.730 GHz, SR 4.342 MS/s, pol H or TP 11.733 GHz, SR 4.342 MS/s, pol H. It has been weak though, about 60-63 on my Coolsat 5000, and I haven't been able to lock it. When this signal appears my RTN signal quality goes way down. When the signal disappears, RTN quality comes back up.
 
Last edited:
It is 10:00 a.m. CT on Friday 5/1/2009

I tuned into the RTN feeds (both) and detected a carrier with the same levels as I normally receive, but "No Audio/Video" on my Coolsat 5000.

I performed a Blind Scan with FREQ = 10.700 - 12.200, SR = DETAIL, POL = ALL and MODE set to FREE. Nothing was picked up except the NBC NEWS CHANNEL AMC9/3F with color bars and test tone @ 88% quality.

The TP ID now shows LEO - 1 The signal level is 81% and the Quality is 69%.

I manually scanned this TP and and picked up one channel - Video 1 (which is new for me). It has the same SL and SQ readings that I had from RTN. It displays color bars and test tone only at this time.

TP 11.735 GHz, SR 4.444 MS/s, pol H.

Did I miss something since yesterday?

Thank you

RADAR

It's coming in fine here in Maine, as of 2:30 PM EDT.
Signal isn't super strong, but quality is fairly good.
I can't remember how S/Q compares to last time I checked out the channel. Am not seeing anything related to the "LEO-1" mentioned, although that rings a bell with respect to some transponder I've seen before, but I can't remember... perhaps it's the Law Enforcement channel or something (I can't remember where that was). But in any event, sounds like you're picking up some other sat that's interfering. Am checking the spectrum as I type, but it will be a few minutes.
 
SETI

Well, I think I will put a call into SETI come Monday morning after reading this article....


OUSE VALLEY OBSERVATORY
FRIDAY, MAY 1, 2009
Leo 1 (just)


Leo - 1 is a dwarf spheroidal galaxy in Leo. At about 820,000 light years distant, it is a member of the Local Group of galaxies and is thought to be one of the most distant satellites of the MilkyWay. It was discovered in 1950 on plates from the Palomar 48" schmidt camera. It is only 12' N of Regulus which makes it easy to find, impossible (for most) to see and very difficult to image.
I know this is a rough image but I'm just happy to capture it. 4x300s. It can be located at true south heading of 277.0 degrees and has been discovered to emit radio wave radiation in the 10 to 15 GHz range.

SETI (The foundation for the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) has recorded anomalies in this radiation emission which they deem “Highly interesting and worthy of investigation”.
POSTED BY JOHN X
LABELS: GALAXY LEO1

:cool::cool::cool::cool:


:hungry: Take us to your leader!

:eek:

RADAR

P.S. I am joking and I embelished on the original story, but I did find this on the net and it was so amusing to me that I had to play with it.
 
Last edited:
It's coming in fine here in Maine, as of 2:30 PM EDT.
Signal isn't super strong, but quality is fairly good.
I can't remember how S/Q compares to last time I checked out the channel. Am not seeing anything related to the "LEO-1" mentioned, although that rings a bell with respect to some transponder I've seen before, but I can't remember... perhaps it's the Law Enforcement channel or something (I can't remember where that was). But in any event, sounds like you're picking up some other sat that's interfering. Am checking the spectrum as I type, but it will be a few minutes.

At this time, my brother is down at the bottom of the hill, not more than a mile away and the RTN stations are coming in at 69-71% for him which is very low. His dish got moved offset in a windstorm and degraded his signal, it was 88-91% and after the wind it was 78-82%. Today it is approximately 10% lower than that! So his signal went down extremely as well as mine.

RADAR
 
Amateur Radio (Hams) uses the term LEO for Low Earth Orbit. But the Ham sats are in polar orbits, not geosynchronous.
 
I have had a mystery signal interfering with RTN for a while now.

It has been at either TP 11.730 GHz, SR 4.342 MS/s, pol H or TP 11.733 GHz, SR 4.342 MS/s, pol H. It has been weak though, about 60-63 on my Coolsat 5000, and I haven't been able to lock it. When this signal appears my RTN signal quality goes way down. When the signal disappears, RTN quality comes back up.

I just did a spectrum scan, and I can see the 11729H/4342 signal you mention, and it DOES have a Network name of LEO-1 , and a channel name of Video-1 .

It's strange to me though, that the RTN signal is a significantly stronger signal, and also gives me higher quality, and yet my Fortec Ultra will not scan in RTN via a blind scan, but will scan in the Video-1 channel. Also, if I do a manual scan using 11735, it will not scan in RTN either, but if I increase the freq to 11738, then it DOES scan it in, but it has a hard time playing the channel.
My Twinhan has no problem playing the RTN channel, but DOES have a problem with the weaker Video-1 channel. My Diamond 9000 has no problems with RTN, but is a bit weak on the Video-1 channel, but it does play it.

I get the impression that the frequency step in the Ultra makes it somehow tend to skip over the RTN frequency, and/or hone in on the Video-1 channel for some reason, but the Twinhan and the Diamond are better at staying on frequency.

EVEN STRANGER..... As I was typing this, I was watching the RTN signal from both Ultra and Diamond in split screen. Ultra was initially blank, then it suddenly locked in, good solid signal. I then tuned to the 11729 signal, and it would NOT lock!?!?! Still seeing both signals on the Twinhan and on the Diamond.
I did a 2nd spectrum scan, and see no noticeable difference between the 11729 and 11735 signals, although there is something different up around 11757, almost a negative peak or something. Anyway, it's strange.
 
Amateur Radio (Hams) uses the term LEO for Low Earth Orbit. But the Ham sats are in polar orbits, not geosynchronous.

I agree that LEO is an acronym for Low Earth Orbit, and agree that many (not all by any means) ham sats are in near polar (none are perfectly polar) orbits, and no ham sats are geosynchronous. However the above statement is a bit misleading. Ie polar orbit refers to the inclination of an orbit, such as equatorial, and everything in between. LEO orbits can be virtually any inclination, and in theory, geosynchronous orbits can be at a wide variety of inclinations too. Generally when old sats go bad and out of control, they generally drift into orbits with higher inclinations than the zero inclinations that the geostationary orbits that most of our TV satellites have. Some of the old dead sats have inclinations up in the 20-30 deg range, but are still essentially geosynchronous (but not geostationary).
Anyway, the polar orbit and geosynchronous orbit terms are really apples and oranges, ie not really particularly related.

But in any event I just assumed that LEO-1 wouldn't refer to Low Earth Orbit, since the transponder wasn't on a LEO sat, but maybe the company renting the transponder also has a low earth orbit business too.? Anyway, I don't know what else it could refer to. I do seem to remember a channel with that name, but I can't remember what it was. It wasn't the Law Enforcement thing I mentioned though, as I just remembered that that was LETN, not LEO.
 
For the last week or so I entered multiple RTN channels on my STB. I put in the following horizontal frequencies: 11.733 (which is where I always had the highest signal), 11.735, 11.737, and 11.739 (all with SR = 04444).

Tonight, the "Video 1" signal completely took over the 11.733 and 11.735 frequencies with a signal quality of 64-65. 11.737 continues to show RTN with a fluctuating signal quality of 67-69, and 11.739 is coming in fairly strong with a signal quality of 69-70.

I'm confused. If the RTN signal is higher than the VIdeo 1 signal, then shouldn't RTN overpower it instead of the other way around?
 
When Video 1 (11729) is active, I never have any problem with it showing up on a blind scan, while RTN rarely shows up on a blind scan (whether Video 1 is active or not). Others have also noted that RTN sometimes doesn't show up on a blind scan. As well, it doesn't always pop right in when I first access the channel (similar to KUIL). I use to have RTN at 11735, but changed it to 11740 and have never had the problem of Video 1 taking over repeat itself (which did happen when it was at 11735). I think ACRadio is correct that AFC action of the receiver will determine the "winner", and as listed above, when I had RTN at 11735 and with RTN not popping in right away, the receiver hunted down to the much more "friendly" Video 1. With it at 11740, when the receiver hunts down it now finds RTN (even after a few seconds) and never tunes down low enough to get Video 1. (NOTE: I also tried 11736-11739, but 11740 always outperformed the others as to how fast it found the correct signal.)

On my Pansat right now, both show a similar strength of around 45 (which is the maximum I ever get on RTN).
 
When Video 1 (11729) is active, I never have any problem with it showing up on a blind scan, while RTN rarely shows up on a blind scan (whether Video 1 is active or not). Others have also noted that RTN sometimes doesn't show up on a blind scan. As well, it doesn't always pop right in when I first access the channel (similar to KUIL). I use to have RTN at 11735, but changed it to 11740 and have never had the problem of Video 1 taking over repeat itself (which did happen when it was at 11735). I think ACRadio is correct that AFC action of the receiver will determine the "winner", and as listed above, when I had RTN at 11735 and with RTN not popping in right away, the receiver hunted down to the much more "friendly" Video 1. With it at 11740, when the receiver hunts down it now finds RTN (even after a few seconds) and never tunes down low enough to get Video 1. (NOTE: I also tried 11736-11739, but 11740 always outperformed the others as to how fast it found the correct signal.)

On my Pansat right now, both show a similar strength of around 45 (which is the maximum I ever get on RTN).

I agree with the contention that some of these various receivers seem to have an AFC which will hone in on a specific signal. From what I've seen, the receivers with blind scan tend to look further out from the selected frequency. I used to have issues when looking at sats that had numeroud 3978 news feed transponders close together. Often, it would depend which direction I was coming from that would determine which transponder I would lock with my blind scan receiver. Also, if say (for example) I was watching a transponder at 11721, and there might be another transponder active at say 11728 or even 11735 (these are from memory from what used to be on IA6 CBS feeds). Well what I'd see was that if the 11721 feed went down, that the blind scan receivers would lose signal for a few seconds, then they would lock in on the nearest other signal in the area with a similar SR, and would search at least 15 MHz, perhaps more. Non-blind scan receivers wouldn't tend to do this, or at least wouldn't search so far, and my Twinhan, wouldn't go even 4 or 5 MHz off freq. My TT3200, will go at least 20MHz off freq. So different receivers are significantly different in this regard.


One other thing, yesterday, I posted that the 11735 was significantly stronger than the 11729 signal. When I did that scan, I was looking at the signal coming through the passthru of my diamond, and that Diamond amplifies the signal a bit, and I was noticing some issues with the higher end of the band, suggesting that the amplifier wasn't linear. Today, I did a re-scan, but this time used a splitter from the coax line, so the only thing between my scan receiver and the LNB is my SG2100 and my DiseqC switch (I may try eliminating those tomorrow). Anyway, I'm still getting a bit of non-linearity at the high end of the band, however today, the 11729 is equal strength, compared to the 11735 signal . I really don't think the amplifier is responsible for this, since the two signals are so close together, but it's possible. Anyway, today's scan:
amc9kh.jpg


"A" is 11735, "B" is 11729 .
The other two transponders with lines pointing to them are 11775 (NBC), and 11969 , which is some data channel that I can't seem to get a good lock on with my Twinhan, despite the fact that it is a very clean signal. These other two signals are the only other channels that my Ultra came up with on a blind scan (in narrow SR mode), despite the fact that there are lots of signals there. I think my Ultra is getting old. :-(

But anyway, today, I agree, the 11729 and 11735 signals are equal strength. However I really question whether the 11729 signal is ever NOT ACTIVE, but rather might just change in strength. That signal has an EIT, which seems to indicate that it's on 24/7 {program length each day is 24H}, although that doesn't mean much I guess.
 
It's raining here today, and the "Video 1" signal has completely taken over all my RTN channels 11.737H - 11.740H.

I manually entered new channel information until I was finally able to reacquire RTN at 11.741/04520, but this is a little unstable. My signal quality will run a few minutes at 69/70 and then suddenly drop to around 15.
 
Getting off work at 7 am central time this Saturday (5/02/2009) my brother called me to ask me to stop by his cabin.

We dialed up the RTN channels and his signal had dropped greatly and was now hitting 70-71% quality. Both RTN channels were still coming in, but RTN EAST had NO audio at all.

As we chatted, the signal began to drop slightly as the sun peeked over the bluff and it dropped a few points to 67-69%. We went about chatting other issues and all of a sudden, at about 8:10 am, the screen and audio went blank for both RTN channels, but the signal quality jumped up to 87-88%!

Very strange!

I came home to check my results and I had some glitchy video and audio for a few moments but then it went back to a blank screen and NO AUDIO/VIDEO.

Currently, I have 69% quality, but no audio or video. My Coolsat usually displays some video as long as the signal is above 66%. My brother is now seeing my dilemna first hand as what was happening to me has happened to him.

Is RTN messing with their equipment and screwing it up so badly or is this LEO-1 upping their signal and drowning out the RTN signals?

RADAR
 
Radar,

I was having the same problem. RTN was completely gone. See my post. This mystery signal had completely taken over my RTN signals.

You could try what I did and see if it works for you.

LoTech
 
It's raining here today, and the "Video 1" signal has completely taken over all my RTN channels 11.737H - 11.740H.

I manually entered new channel information until I was finally able to reacquire RTN at 11.741/04520, but this is a little unstable. My signal quality will run a few minutes at 69/70 and then suddenly drop to around 15.

Radar,

I was having the same problem. RTN was completely gone. See my post. This mystery signal had completely taken over my RTN signals.

You could try what I did and see if it works for you.

LoTech

LoTech,

Hey buddy! That worked! The RTNs popped in on the scan immediately and when I went to view the channels they popped in right away, too! No delays whatsover!

Your tip was awesome! Thank you very much!

Gordy (RADAR)
 
Last edited:
No problem. I don't have any idea why it works, but it sure seems to. I'm glad it fixed your problem too.

LoTech

LoTech,

Well, it lasted for a while, now LEO-1 took that TP over from me, too! Doggone it!

LEO-1 is on all the TPsm near the same as RTN and it is really wreaking havoc for me.

Leo has to go!

RADAR
 
LEO 1 took over mine today for a while too. It was during a rainstorm, and the signal was much much more powerful than it was yesterday (78 today as compared to 66 yesterday.) After a few minutes, the signal faded and disappeared and RTN came back. Is your's still out?
 
Status
Please reply by conversation.