Using existing rg59

[twodose]

I have read through allot of the threads concerning rg59/u verses the rg6/u.

I have an apartment that was built in 1994 that has rg59/u cable installed, there are 2 runs feeding 3 outlets, none of the runs are over 40’.

The apartment has never been lived in until now so everything is in like new condition.

The tenant wants to install Dish Network, the way it is now a nice job could be done installing a dish using the existing cable and would be able to feed all 3 outlets.

If I can’t use the existing cable, the cable from the dish will have to be run up the outside wall and through the vinyl siding and into the apartment, it is not going to look as good as if it were done the way I would like to do it using the rg59, there is no way to run new cable from box to box since the attic is a crawl space and would be very complicated, so any feeds to other outlets would be in plain sight.

Opinion’s seem to differ on the fact that the existing rg59 be kept in place and rg6 run to it from the satellite dish.

The installer says it can’t be done because of the signal loss.
My question is, can it be done?

 

[Andrewwski]

Yes, and it'll probably work fine. Although I'll get pounced on for saying this by somebody claiming something about magical "burn-out" or something.

Try it - if it works, it works. I'm using it on a 40 or 50 foot run without issue.

 

[dishcomm]

I have read through allot of the threads concerning rg59/u verses the rg6/u.

I have an apartment that was built in 1994 that has rg59/u cable installed, there are 2 runs feeding 3 outlets, none of the runs are over 40’.

The apartment has never been lived in until now so everything is in like new condition.

The tenant wants to install Dish Network, the way it is now a nice job could be done installing a dish using the existing cable and would be able to feed all 3 outlets.

If I can’t use the existing cable, the cable from the dish will have to be run up the outside wall and through the vinyl siding and into the apartment, it is not going to look as good as if it were done the way I would like to do it using the rg59, there is no way to run new cable from box to box since the attic is a crawl space and would be very complicated, so any feeds to other outlets would be in plain sight.

Opinion’s seem to differ on the fact that the existing rg59 be kept in place and rg6 run to it from the satellite dish.

The installer says it can’t be done because of the signal loss.
My question is, can it be done?

use of rg-59 is NOT recomended. Also, this is a violation of Dish specs and will result in an auto fail for the tech than installed the system
Now, if this is a retailer using his own installer there's a very good chance the job would not be inspected by Dish.
Please keep in mind ..only the cabling feeding the actual satellite receiver must be 3ghz rated rg-6.
TV 2 backfeeds on rg-59 are fine.

 

[Andrewwski]

Rated means exactly that, rated. Not capable or possible.

That's all I'll say about that as I don't want to get into an argument.

 

[twodose]

Please keep in mind ..only the cabling feeding the actual satellite receiver must be 3ghz rated rg-6.
TV 2 backfeeds on rg-59 are fine.

So you are saying that the cable from the Satellite Dish to the Receiver must be rg-6?

And by tv2 backfeeds, do you mean the tv2 output out of the receiver to the 2nd tv?

 

[BuddyBoy]

Your chances for success are much higher with legacy LNBFs compared to DishPro LNBFs. Legacy (non-stacking) LNBFs only use the range 950-1450MHz. At my vacation home I've got a 50 foot or so piece of RG59 in the walls along with another 50 feet or so of RG6 from the Dish to the house entry point, and it works fine with legacy LNBFs. I worried more about whether the RG59 could pass the DC voltages to switch between the two polarizations than whether it could pass the satellite signal.

DishPro LNBFs use 1650-2150MHz in addition to 950-1450MHz. Hard to say whether it will work or not. RG59 will attenuate high frequencies more than RG6; whether this attenuation is sufficient to make reception impossible is hard to say. Some typical numbers for 3GHz swept RG6 are 9.35db down at 2250MHz per 100 feet (CommScope 5781), for RG59 it might be 15.5db down (some random cable I picked out of the Belden catalog). That means one foot of the RG59 loses as much of the signal as four feet of RG6, NOT that the RG59 can't pass the signal at all, as some (very) poorly informed posters might have you believe. It just has 4x as much loss per unit length compared to the RG6.

 

[DishSubLA]

I have been using RG59 installed by the cable co. under the house back in the late 1990's, so I can't see what type of RG59 it is, just that at the time it was considered far superior to the old cable under the house as was supposed to support the then very new digital cable, but did improve the poor analog signal we were getting. When I ditched cable and changed to Dish, the first installer was lazy and used the existing RG59 cable to connect between the then SW64 and the STB's using, obviously, legacy LNBF's. No problems.

Over time, the old SW64 was changed out for the DP34, then the DPP44, along with using the Dish Pro LNBF's. I've been using the DPP44 since it came out some years ago. My LNBF's are the latest Dish technology and include the dual LNBF for 119 & 118.7. It has been nearly 10 years using the RG59 installed by the cable co. under the house for Dish, and I have had NO PROBLEMS in the least in all that time. Several good installers have told me that they know that the better quality RG59 will work fine, and don't have a problem with it, although I would certainly prefer RG6, as Dish recommends and understand the reasons. The real concern regarding particular cables is its ability to carry the voltage over the distance of the install without it leaking out. Now, we are talking about RG59 between an external switch and the STB, not from the LNBF's.

 

[dishcomm]

So you are saying that the cable from the Satellite Dish to the Receiver must be rg-6?

And by tv2 backfeeds, do you mean the tv2 output out of the receiver to the 2nd tv?

yes. that is correct.

 

[Van]

Ok, I installed dish for 6 years and during that time I had a sears catalog of service calls with far to many having to do with rg59 that had went bad and would not allow the system to work properly, some of the repair calls were for systems that had just been installed using brand new rg59 while others were with old rg59. I've had the same problem to an extremely smaller extent with rg-6 and usually it was due to either it being the first generation used back in the late 80's or early 90's or it was damaged whether at the home or factory defect or bad end prep. Now I have done service calls to upgrade a system that had been on rg59 for several years but those were very few and far in between and they are not the norm.

Dish network has a policy that they will not use rg59 in a system, hell they wont even use your existing rg-6 though most techs will to save time but in regards to the 59 the use of it will void the warranty and very few techs who care about having a job and eating will install a system with rg59 in it.

What can be done is dish can use flat cables to go through a window or doorway into the apartment which will save you having to have any holes drilled but theres not much that can be done about the cable going up the side of the building.

 

[kvnfl]

use of rg-59 is NOT recomended. Also, this is a violation of Dish specs and will result in an auto fail for the tech than installed the system
Now, if this is a retailer using his own installer there's a very good chance the job would not be inspected by Dish./QUOTE]

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink...click on a link at the top of this page or open up the phone book.

Do not go through dishnetwork dot com. Do call dishnetworks 800 number.

 

[Koilvr]

Ok, I installed dish for 6 years and during that time I had a sears catalog of service calls with far to many having to do with rg59 that had went bad and would not allow the system to work properly, some of the repair calls were for systems that had just been installed using brand new rg59 while others were with old rg59. I've had the same problem to an extremely smaller extent with rg-6 and usually it was due to either it being the first generation used back in the late 80's or early 90's or it was damaged whether at the home or factory defect or bad end prep. Now I have done service calls to upgrade a system that had been on rg59 for several years but those were very few and far in between and they are not the norm.

Dish network has a policy that they will not use rg59 in a system, hell they wont even use your existing rg-6 though most techs will to save time but in regards to the 59 the use of it will void the warranty and very few techs who care about having a job and eating will install a system with rg59 in it.

What can be done is dish can use flat cables to go through a window or doorway into the apartment which will save you having to have any holes drilled but theres not much that can be done about the cable going up the side of the building.

I hear flat cabes burn down houses, condos and apartments.....

 

[Van]

I hear flat cabes burn down houses, condos and apartments.....

I heard Elvis just died in a car accident last week to, just all depends on where you hear it from. Like any device that carries any level of electrical current through it if you don't install it properly then there will be a potential for failure and possible damage which is why Dish has specific guidelines for the installation of all parts of a dbs system to include flat coax as well as regular coax.

With flat coax you have to place the coax within the window and or door frame to where it will not face the risk of having its casing crimped and perforated allowing the center conductor to come into contact with metal such as in a patio door wall on the top and bottom grooved tracks which I have seen done in the past. With a patio door wall it is best to put the flat cable through the second panel between the panel and the frame or the side you don't open or if space allows between the two panels securing the coax on both sides with a little quality tape such as duct tape or gorilla tape.

With a window frame if its the type that slides horizontally then its pretty much the same way while with a normal window I would put it to one side and with a door you should put it towards the side to prevent tripping or below the first hinge.

As I said above I saw an apartment install where the customer used flat coax himself and ran it through a patio door wall laying it on the track, after a few times of opening the door and stepping on it the casing became perforated and arcing happened shorting out the system. I've also seen rg6 where the casing has been punctured by nails and staples and done the same thing though its not common for it to spark.

 

[DishSubLA]

Ok, I installed dish for 6 years and during that time I had a sears catalog of service calls with far to many having to do with rg59 that had went bad and would not allow the system to work properly, some of the repair calls were for systems that had just been installed using brand new rg59 while others were with old rg59. I've had the same problem to an extremely smaller extent with rg-6 and usually it was due to either it being the first generation used back in the late 80's or early 90's or it was damaged whether at the home or factory defect or bad end prep. Now I have done service calls to upgrade a system that had been on rg59 for several years but those were very few and far in between and they are not the norm.

Dish network has a policy that they will not use rg59 in a system, hell they wont even use your existing rg-6 though most techs will to save time but in regards to the 59 the use of it will void the warranty and very few techs who care about having a job and eating will install a system with rg59 in it.

What can be done is dish can use flat cables to go through a window or doorway into the apartment which will save you having to have any holes drilled but theres not much that can be done about the cable going up the side of the building.

I thought Dish officially will not install flat cable. In fact, I think I am certain of this. I think Dish is clear on flat cables: NO! NEVER! Fires! Dish doesn't want the liability. However, there are contractors who have installed flat cable, and several have caught fire. If you are a retailer, then please call Dish tech/engineering support and get the official word on flat cable and settle this once and for all of us mere peasants. I know what the answer will be.l

 

[DishSubLA]

I agree with you all about the preference and official support of RG6; there is good reason for this. However, in my case where the original installer was too LAZY to install RG6, if anything goes wrong, I assure you that if Dish determains that the RG59 is at fault, Dish WILL replace it for FREE of charge. Not just because of DHPP and long-time fat whale status, but I'll see to it the Executive Offices approve the free re-cabling, and they will because their attitude has changed for the better since they have lost subs. and they are giving away all kinds of %*#$ to others just to keep them. In my case it was Dish's LAZY contractor, and when they research it, they will KNOW it. There are few UP sides to the down economy and Dish losing subs: Dish is far more butt-kissing then ever before.

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

I have read through allot of the threads concerning rg59/u verses the rg6/u.

I have an apartment that was built in 1994 that has rg59/u cable installed, there are 2 runs feeding 3 outlets, none of the runs are over 40’.

The apartment has never been lived in until now so everything is in like new condition.

The tenant wants to install Dish Network, the way it is now a nice job could be done installing a dish using the existing cable and would be able to feed all 3 outlets.

If I can’t use the existing cable, the cable from the dish will have to be run up the outside wall and through the vinyl siding and into the apartment, it is not going to look as good as if it were done the way I would like to do it using the rg59, there is no way to run new cable from box to box since the attic is a crawl space and would be very complicated, so any feeds to other outlets would be in plain sight.

Opinion’s seem to differ on the fact that the existing rg59 be kept in place and rg6 run to it from the satellite dish.

The installer says it can’t be done because of the signal loss.
My question is, can it be done?

You have an apartment that was built in '94 and has never been lived in until now? Wow!!! LOL Talk about a bad investment.

 

[bebop]

You have an apartment that was built in '94 and has never been lived in until now? Wow!!! LOL Talk about a bad investment.

I was thinking the same thing, but we really need to see some pictures as it might not be all that we're thinking...

 

[twodose]

The apartment is above a 3 bay self-service carwash, I was reluctant till just recently to have someone live in the apartment.

Was just using for storage.

I always thought the noise from the wash would be enough to keep anyone from renting it, plus I didn't want to go through the bs of being a landlord, it is a bit noisy in the bedroom when all three bays are running.

But the way the economy is, I figured now would be a good time to clean it out, finish it up and rent it out.

I have another question, the type of cable that dish will be using is Vextra V266gw Dual RG6, 3ghz, 75ohm S700851 75c s/18awg gnd cmx etl.

Can this be buried? I want to bury a portion of it about 4-5" deep.

Thanks

 

[Van]

I thought Dish officially will not install flat cable. In fact, I think I am certain of this. I think Dish is clear on flat cables: NO! NEVER! Fires! Dish doesn't want the liability. However, there are contractors who have installed flat cable, and several have caught fire. If you are a retailer, then please call Dish tech/engineering support and get the official word on flat cable and settle this once and for all of us mere peasants. I know what the answer will be.l

Three years ago I was using the new upgraded heavy duty rg6 flat cable while working directly for dish inhouse and they were sending it to our office on a weekly basis so unless something changed from 06 till now then Chucky has his installers still using it though it may be his sub cons that are not allowed to use it.

The apartment is above a 3 bay self-service carwash, I was reluctant till just recently to have someone live in the apartment.

Was just using for storage.

I always thought the noise from the wash would be enough to keep anyone from renting it, plus I didn't want to go through the bs of being a landlord, it is a bit noisy in the bedroom when all three bays are running.

But the way the economy is, I figured now would be a good time to clean it out, finish it up and rent it out.

I have another question, the type of cable that dish will be using is Vextra V266gw Dual RG6, 3ghz, 75ohm S700851 75c s/18awg gnd cmx etl.

Can this be buried? I want to bury a portion of it about 4-5" deep.

Thanks

Yes

 

[twodose]

I have another question, the type of cable that dish will be using is Vextra V266gw Dual RG6, 3ghz, 75ohm S700851 75c s/18awg gnd cmx etl.

Thanks

Is this the Flat Cable?

 

[johnwadams]

I have DishPRO, RG6 from lnbs to distributuon center then 4 RG-59 runs through walls when house was built in 1994. Runs are 75' or longer. I you want to take a chance, add 5-6' stubs of RG-6 at each end of each run. If it works, installer happy and you are happy. If it doesn't, well, you can try to do new runs of RG6 and if in apartment or where you can't run new RG-6, just tell the installer to make it work or haul everything back. I think it will work ok for most users.