WBC shocker.....The Netherlands eliminates the Dominicans!

[cosmo_kramer]

And btw, I don't know a lot about this World Baseball Classic as it's only in it's 2nd year of existence, but how is this different than the Olympics?

Isn't that the point of the Olympics? To assemble teams from around the world to compete for their countries? Why another separate tourney? Because it's annual, not every 4 years?

Baseball will not be included in the 2012 London games and the WBC has been promoted as a way to advertise the sport's popularity throughout the world and to try to get it reinstated as an Olympic sport.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I've wondered about the timing of it, why isn't it played after MLB's World Series instead of during Spring Training, when many more players would be allowed to participate?

Yankees pitcher CC Sabathia and Phillies slugger Ryan Howard stayed in spring training rather than join Team USA. Canada will be without former 17-game winner Ryan Dempster. Japan won't have Hideki Matsui or Hiroki Kuroda. The Dominican is without Manny Ramirez, Vladimir Guerrero and Ervin Santana in addition to Pujols. And in the unlikely event Panama ever has a ninth-inning lead to protect, its closer won't be Mariano Rivera.

World Baseball Classic is a mixed bag - Los Angeles Times

 

[salsadancer7]

Here is more form CNN/SI's Tom Verducci:

The World Baseball Classic arrived Tuesday night. Baseball became a truly global game when the Netherlands, the international baseball version of Buster Douglas, the 1980 U.S. hockey team and the Milan Indians rolled into one, put the tournament on the map by upsetting the heavily favored, star-studded Dominican Republic team, 2-1. Talk about shocking the world. Go crazy, Rotterdam, go crazy.

The Netherlands is a country that may be the best baseball Europe has to offer, but is a country that has never finished higher than fourth in the history of IBAF World Cup competition. Its WBC roster included just one major leaguer. A 29-year-old third baseman named Yurendell DeCaster, with the grand sum of zero major league hits, became their Lorenzo Charles with a two-out infield grounder to first base -- it was scored an error by Willy Aybar -- to cap a two-run, bottom of the 11th rally for the historic 2-1 victory. The winning run was scored by Eugene Kingsale, a 32-year-old outfielder who had washed out of the major leagues and had escorted home the go-ahead run in the top of the inning for the Dominicans with a misplay in right field. It was a single by the redemptive Kingsale that had tied the game.

Major League Baseball can work all of its machinations to pump up interest in the tournament, such as marketing and broadcasting. But there is nothing more powerful to sell the tournament than the unscripted magnificence of the game itself, never more so than when what we regard as the meek overtake the mighty. The Dominicans, because of the country's abiding love for baseball, will bear grief and shame for the defeat.

But for the Dutch, and for those who saw the WBC as a means to grow the game, victory is eternal. Van Gogh. Escher. DeKooning. And now make way for a new Dutch master: DeCaster.

I am betting that EVERY single newpaper in D.R. is signaling the lynch of Felipe Alou and BEGGING that the VERY BEST of ALL Dominican players play in the next one 'to avenge this embarassment!'

...LOL!

 

[salsadancer7]

I've wondered about the timing of it, why isn't it played after MLB's World Series instead of during Spring Training, when many more players would be allowed to participate?



World Baseball Classic is a mixed bag - Los Angeles Times

Don't go TOO MUCH by that article because Vlad DID participcate in the 1st one and Manny has NEVER played in anything representing his country. And if I am not mistaken, Howard and Ryan Dempster DID play the 1st time around.

I think because there is no baseball in the Olympics, this tourney will become even MORE popular as the years go by.

 

[salsadancer7]

I've wondered about the timing of it, why isn't it played after MLB's World Series instead of during Spring Training, when many more players would be allowed to participate?



World Baseball Classic is a mixed bag - Los Angeles Times

Also, I think that LESS would participate because after that long as hell baseball season, you would have to assume these guys would be exausted.

 

[HD MM]

Don't go TOO MUCH by that article because Vlad DID participcate in the 1st one and Manny has NEVER played in anything representing his country. And if I am not mistaken, Howard and Ryan Dempster DID play the 1st time around.

I think because there is no baseball in the Olympics, this tourney will become even MORE popular as the years go by.

If Baseball is in fact not in the Olymics any more, that's ridiculous!

I just think this WBC needs to tweak a few things. The timing, as Cosmo's said is awful. All the owners and managers are nervous that their star player will be injured for the looming MLB season. Not everyone plays because of that.

If it was after the WS, I think more players would participate.

Oh btw, Go Dutch!

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Don't go TOO MUCH by that article because Vlad DID participcate in the 1st one and Manny has NEVER played in anything representing his country. And if I am not mistaken, Howard and Ryan Dempster DID play the 1st time around.

I think because there is no baseball in the Olympics, this tourney will become even MORE popular as the years go by.

But, that's the point, the trend is that more name players are declining to play again (for various reasons, but most probably not allowed to by their MLB teams) instead of an increase in name players joining from last time.

This is probably what killed baseball in the Olympics. MLB can't take a month off every four years to allow their players to play there.

And though the sport can point to a crowded international schedule that includes a World Cup, world championships and regional competitions such as the Pan American Games, those events rarely draw the top players from participating countries -- something IOC President Jacques Rogge said is essential if baseball is to rejoin the Olympics.

"It's important for baseball to develop a truly international event like the World Baseball Classic," said Paul Seiler, executive director and CEO of Major League Baseball.

World Baseball Classic is a mixed bag - Los Angeles Times

 

[HD MM]

Also, I think that LESS would participate because after that long as hell baseball season, you would have to assume these guys would be exausted.

Ok, how about take a few months off and have the WBC at the end of January until the beginning of February? There is a null in the sports world during this time. A lot of players are playing "winter ball" during this time anyways. Plus, players don't officially report to their MLB clubs until March. This wouldn't cut into their Spring Training time at all.

 

[salsadancer7]

If Baseball is in fact not in the Olymics any more, that's ridiculous!

I just think this WBC needs to tweak a few things. The timing, as Cosmo's said is awful. All the owners and managers are nervous that their star player will be injured for the looming MLB season. Not everyone plays because of that.

If it was after the WS, I think more players would participate.

Oh btw, Go Dutch!

I think more teams would ALLOW IT, but I thing less players would play. LOL!!

Typical, players think about their health and rest...owners thinking about their investment.....LOL!

 

[HD MM]

I think more teams would ALLOW IT, but I thing less players would play. LOL!!

Typical, players think about their health and rest...owners thinking about their investment.....LOL!

Maybe the WBC could allow PED's, so they could "recover quicker", then they could use the entire offseason to get it out of their system before the next MLB season.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Also, I think that LESS would participate because after that long as hell baseball season, you would have to assume these guys would be exausted.

I disagree, after all only a few teams make it far into MLB's postseason. I would bet you would get better participation after the season than before....

 

[salsadancer7]

But, that's the point, the trend is that more name players are declining to play again (for various reasons, but most probably not allowed to by their MLB teams) instead of an increase in name players joining from last time.

This is probably what killed baseball in the Olympics. MLB can't take a month off every four years to allow their players to play there.



World Baseball Classic is a mixed bag - Los Angeles Times

That is why I think the best time would be now instead of after the season. NOW, the only real reason the player don't come is because their teams won't allow them. I bet that if the team did not pressure ANY PLAYER not to play, most if not ALL of the best player from OTHER COUNTRIES would play in a heart beat. The issue is US players just don't think it is as important as a World Series...while players from the Dominican, Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Mexico....almost cry when they get invited to represent their country in THE main sport of their country. These player in Latin American have no and got no monetary gain from playing...they just do it because they love their sport and they are playing their sport representing their country. ALL you have to look at is how JUBILANT the latin players get in a tight game like last nights game...TODAY, Puerto Rico has a chance to go undefeated in the Pool...watch that game and watch the atmosphere in Hiram Bithorn Stadium....it will be bedlam!

 

[salsadancer7]

I disagree, after all only a few teams make it far into MLB's postseason. I would bet you would get better participation after the season than before....

I can give you a PERFECT example of why I disagree. Winter Leagues. ALL those player have a chance to play in their countries professional leagues and almost ALL don't because it starts right around when the World Series ends. There is no pressure from the major clubs NOT to participate and very little play. When the Caribbean World Series starts...teams that win the respective leagues championship are allow 're-enforcements'...also known as 'ringers' , to play....and suddenly, the D.R., Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Mexico rosters are loaded with professionals....WHY?! The Caribbean World Series starts when? You ready? Late January, early February....3 months after ALL of MLB is completed.

...rested....

 

[salsadancer7]

Ok, how about take a few months off and have the WBC at the end of January until the beginning of February? There is a null in the sports world during this time. A lot of players are playing "winter ball" during this time anyways. Plus, players don't officially report to their MLB clubs until March. This wouldn't cut into their Spring Training time at all.

LOL!! I was making the same point at the same time. This year, because of the WBC, ALOT of the pros did not participate in the Caribbean World Series...that time of the year would be perfect.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

That is why I think the best time would be now instead of after the season. NOW, the only real reason the player don't come is because their teams won't allow them. I bet that if the team did not pressure ANY PLAYER not to play, most if not ALL of the best player from OTHER COUNTRIES would play in a heart beat. The issue is US players just don't think it is as important as a World Series...while players from the Dominican, Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Mexico....almost cry when they get invited to represent their country in THE main sport of their country. These player in Latin American have no and got no monetary gain from playing...they just do it because they love their sport and they are playing their sport representing their country. ALL you have to look at is how JUBILANT the latin players get in a tight game like last nights game...TODAY, Puerto Rico has a chance to go undefeated in the Pool...watch that game and watch the atmosphere in Hiram Bithorn Stadium....it will be bedlam!

I agree that the WBC has the potential to be a great thing for baseball, but you have to recognize the responsibility that MLB front offices have here. Millions of dollars are at stake, both in direct player contracts and their teams' on-the-field and financial performance if they lose key players during their season.

Hell, even players who are playing are under restrictions. I saw part of the game last Saturday where they said Edinson Volquez was under a strict 60 pitch pitchcount for the game. That's why I feel there would be better participation after the WS.

As for the statement that Latin players care more about the WBC than US players, that's bull. The list of Latin players not participating is long too. Some for selfish reasons (see M. Ramirez), but most because their MLB teams don't want them to.

 

[salsadancer7]

If you get a chance, I posted before an good article about the WBC, check it out!

Netherlands' stunning upset of Dominican Republic puts WBC on map - Tom Verducci - SI.com

 

[salsadancer7]

I agree that the WBC has the potential to be a great thing for baseball, but you have to recognize the responsibility that MLB front offices have here. Millions of dollars are at stake, both in direct player contracts and their teams' on-the-field and financial performance if they lose key players during their season.

Hell, even players who are playing are under restrictions. I saw part of the game last Saturday where they said Edinson Volquez was under a strict 60 pitch pitchcount for the game. That's why I feel there would be better participation after the WS.

As for the statement that Latin players care more about the WBC than US players, that's bull. The list of Latin players not participating is long too. Some for selfish reasons (see M. Ramirez), but most because their MLB teams don't want them to.

I do not deny NOR blame ownership for not wanting their players to play. I, even as a fan of the Marlins and Reds, is a little nervous about seeing Hanley Ramirez, Volquez and Cueto play scares me.

And by the way, ALL pitchers are on pitching restrictions...not just Volquez. Now for the statement that latin players care more....I did not say they care more, it just seems like it means more to them. Remember, this is an American game..and though it may not mean much to American fans to beat a team from Venezuela..it sure as sh*t means alot to them...alot more than you think....

The USA-Venezuela game Wednesday really means almost nothing: just seeding for the next round, which begins Saturday in Miami. The winner gets the loser of the Puerto Rico-Netherlands game Wednesday. Nothing? Tell that to the Venezuelans.

"It's important because it's a challenge," Venezuela outfielder Endy Chavez said. "It doesn't matter that we've moved to the next level. I just want to beat the U.S. team. I think we have the talent to come through."

When asked if Venezuelans faced more pressure playing for their country in the WBC than in the MLB, Chavez replied, "I think so. The responsibility is big. We know what this means for our country. When we play the country comes to a stop."

And if Venezuela should win the WBC? "It's a party for like a month," Chavez said.

Think a US player would say the same if US beats Venezuela...?

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I can give you a PERFECT example of why I disagree. Winter Leagues. ALL those player have a chance to play in their countries professional leagues and almost ALL don't because it starts right around when the World Series ends. There is no pressure from the major clubs NOT to participate and very little play. When the Caribbean World Series starts...teams that win the respective leagues championship are allow 're-enforcements'...also known as 'ringers' , to play....and suddenly, the D.R., Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Mexico rosters are loaded with professionals....WHY?! The Caribbean World Series starts when? You ready? Late January, early February....3 months after ALL of MLB is completed.

...rested....

Seriously?? C'mon, out of all the top players invited and/or expected to participate in the WBC, how many actually participate in the Winter Leagues or Caribbean WS?? I looked, and I can tell you, not many....

Winter Leagues: Caribbean Series: Statistics | MLB.com: Events

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Think a US player would say the same if US beats Venezuela...?

What do you mean "if", they did beat them, and they did say the same:

Dunn was one of many U.S. players to rave about the chemistry and camaraderie that has quickly forged strong bonds among a team eager to make amends for a disappointing eighth-place finish at the 2006 tournament.

"It feels like we've been together for a long time," Dunn said. "I don't know if that's the way they designed it or what. It's a bunch of great guys and everyone gets along. It's amazing."

David Wright, who had three hits Sunday, said the Americans "clicked" from the first workout and have grown closer now that the competition is underway.

"It's not only a tremendous baseball experience, but also a personal experience to be around this group of guys and to have the fun we're having," Wright said. "On the field, in the clubhouse, it's just a blast to be a part of this."

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/baseball/wbbc/recap?gameId=290308116&league=wbbc"]United States vs. Venezuela - Recap - March 08, 2009 - ESPN[/ame]

 

[salsadancer7]

Seriously?? C'mon, out of all the top players invited and/or expected to participate in the WBC, how many actually participate in the Winter Leagues or Caribbean WS?? I looked, and I can tell you, not many....

Winter Leagues: Caribbean Series: Statistics | MLB.com: Events

...not many BECAUSE they wanted to play in the Classic...The Dominican team has ALWAYS been a powerhouse in the Caribbean World Series and is almost a lock to be in the Final..and they only won 2 games.