Well, At Least Lloyd Carr Gets It Over With Right Away!!!

[salsadancer7]

Joe, the Big 2 and the little 8, ended with Schembeckler and Hayes. When you look past the overall numbers, you see where Carr has failed. 3 straight losses to Ohio State are unacceptable to a University whose main goals are 1. Beat Ohio State. 2. Beat Ohio State. 3. Win a national title. 4. Beat MSU. 5. Beat Ohio State. We attract alot of recruits just because we are Michigan. Carr's recent recruiting efforts have been found lacking, and his game preparation has been sad. We're getting tired of rolling over the patsies and losing in the big games. Now we've lost to a patsy. Totally unacceptable for Michigan. 109,000 people every Saturday want more. Being an also ran may be okay in East Lansing, but it doesn't fly in Ann Arbor. Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't sit well in East Lansing either. Why else would they have gone through so many coaches in the last 25 years?

How can anyone call a team that won back-to-back national championships a patsy? Alot of the athletes either could not afford a division I school or they didn't have the grades...so they had to settle for a division II school. I have to go through this EVERY YEAR with my kids trying to get into division I schools on a baseball scholarship.

 

[joedekock]

Carr has failed. 3 straight losses to Ohio State are unacceptable to a University whose main goals are 1. Beat Ohio State. 2. Beat Ohio State. 3. Win a national title. 4. Beat MSU. 5. Beat Ohio State.

And there in lies the problem. All of those that are disappointed with Carr have these same priorities. And they are not in line with the Athletic department, Carr or the University. No school puts pressure on a coach to beat one team as their number one priority.

The priority Carr, and the U of M athletic dept. have, (along with every other school in the nation), is to be champions of their conference, and win their bowl game. If the season progresses to allow the opportunity for a National Championship in their Bowl game, then the expectation is to win that. And I will give you the fact that Lloyd has failed there. His bowl game record is not good for as school o Michigan's caliber.

But for any person to rant on Lloyd for not beating Ohio State for the last three years, they need to accept that Ohio State has simply had more talent, and been one of the best teams in College football. even better than Michigan.

If people want to rip him for not being a good post conference coach, that is called for. But very few teams in the country have been able to beat Ohio State the last three years. And no other school is bitching about firing their coach because of it except for Michigan.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

If you settle for less, less is what you get. We don't have less talent, we have lesser coaching. Until this loss, Division IIA teams have always been viewed as tune-up patsies. Just check the record books for proof. Michigan is a larger school that attracts All-Americans and has 22 more scholarships. I don't care how many championships App State has won, we should have won this game. Carr did not have this team prepared, plain and simple. As for Ohio State, you being a MSU fan do not understand the intensity of this rivalry. Being a national champ requires beating Ohio State and winning the Big Ten. The two usually go hand in hand. Didn't think I needed to explain that. I noticed that MSU's coach has a countdown clock to the Michigan game in their locker room. "No school puts pressure on a coach to beat one team as their number one priority". Seems that MSU has put a bullseye on Michigan, as the path back to respectability.

 

[joedekock]

If you settle for less, less is what you get. We don't have less talent, we have lesser coaching. Until this loss, Division IIA teams have always been viewed as tune-up patsies. Just check the record books for proof. Michigan is a larger school that attracts All-Americans and has 22 more scholarships. I don't care how many championships App State has won, we should have won this game. Carr did not have this team prepared, plain and simple. As for Ohio State, you being a MSU fan do not understand the intensity of this rivalry. Being a national champ requires beating Ohio State and winning the Big Ten. The two usually go hand in hand. Didn't think I needed to explain that. I noticed that MSU's coach has a countdown clock to the Michigan game in their locker room. "No school puts pressure on a coach to beat one team as their number one priority". Seems that MSU has put a bullseye on Michigan, as the path back to respectability.

I have said before that "yes the loss to app state is on Carr." But no, the road to the championship does not go through Ohio State ever year... just the last three.

I understand rivalries. But up until the last three loss against Ohio State Carr was 6-4. He came out of the gate winning his first four against Ohio State. Do you put a guy on the chopping block for that? Michigan still shares the most Big Ten Championships with Ohio State since Carr started coaching.

As far as Dantonio having a countdown clock on his wall, you should read his exact quote on that...

There are two schools of thought here:

(A) Eat, sleep, and breathe your rivalry game.
(B) You've lost five straight to UM - don't make your season about one game.

"Personally, I don't like the "rivalry" focus, because I think it sends the wrong message to your team, especially long term. It's almost like saying 1-12 is okay as long as the one is your rival. I don't like that attitude, but I certainly understand there are a lot of fans out there that do feel that way. I can't even count the times I've heard people say "... as long as we beat Notre Dame" or "... as long as we beat USC" and so on."

Countdown to Michigan clock installed in training room : Fanblogs College Football Blog

I would say if Carr cannot beat Ohio State this year, and loses another Bowl Game... then the firing talk is in order.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

I think we have reached common ground my friend. Looking forward to what should be a good game between M and MSU. This was a fun discussion, but it's time to move on. New week, new opponents. Good luck to your Spartans. (I root for them every week but one. I'm also a huge fan of their basketball program).

 

[mkatts]

Thought this was funny...

 

[markh]

Appalachian State is a Division IAA team, not Division II. There is a difference. I think IAA teams have full scholarship players, mostly guys who went to smaller high schools or weren't fully developed as players coming out of high school. Stuff like that prevented them from getting scholarships at the bigger schools. It's pretty clear that App State got quite a few of those better players together. Yes, Michigan should have beat them. Michigan had to make mistakes and play below their ability for them to lose, but give App State some credit, they have some good players, and they looked to have some speed.

Joe, if you think that the Michigan-Ohio State isn't just as important to Ohio State, ask Earle Bruce. I don't think he ever had less than 9 wins at Ohio State. The problem was that too many of the losses came against Michigan and he was fired.

overall Big 10
1979 11-1 8-0 Earle Bruce
1980 9-3 7-1 Earle Bruce
1981 9-3 6-2 Earle Bruce
1982 9-3 7-1 Earle Bruce
1983 9-6 6-3 Earle Bruce
1984 9-3 7-2 Earle Bruce
1985 9-3 5-3 Earle Bruce
1986 10-3 7-1 Earle Bruce
1987 6-4-1 4-4 Earle Bruce

My mistake, he had a poor year in 1987. I also saw he was 5-4 against Michigan on the site I took this from. Tough crowd down there in Columbus.

 

[joedekock]

I think we have reached common ground my friend. Looking forward to what should be a good game between M and MSU. This was a fun discussion, but it's time to move on. New week, new opponents. Good luck to your Spartans. (I root for them every week but one. I'm also a huge fan of their basketball program).

Agreed! I will be watching the Michigan vs. Oregon game closely this week! I do hope they get back on track. I hate all the grumpy people walking around here on the West Side of the state!

 

[Jimbo]

I have said before that "yes the loss to app state is on Carr." But no, the road to the championship does not go through Ohio State ever year... just the last three.

I understand rivalries. But up until the last three loss against Ohio State Carr was 6-4. He came out of the gate winning his first four against Ohio State. Do you put a guy on the chopping block for that? Michigan still shares the most Big Ten Championships with Ohio State since Carr started coaching.

As far as Dantonio having a countdown clock on his wall, you should read his exact quote on that...

There are two schools of thought here:

(A) Eat, sleep, and breathe your rivalry game.
(B) You've lost five straight to UM - don't make your season about one game.

"Personally, I don't like the "rivalry" focus, because I think it sends the wrong message to your team, especially long term. It's almost like saying 1-12 is okay as long as the one is your rival. I don't like that attitude, but I certainly understand there are a lot of fans out there that do feel that way. I can't even count the times I've heard people say "... as long as we beat Notre Dame" or "... as long as we beat USC" and so on."

Countdown to Michigan clock installed in training room : Fanblogs College Football Blog

I would say if Carr cannot beat Ohio State this year, and loses another Bowl Game... then the firing talk is in order.

What was the very first thing Coach Tressel said when he made his first appearance for the Buckeyes ?

If you recall, it was during halftime of a Buckeye basketball game.
He said,
It's 332 days till Michigan, you will be proud of our team
(I don't know if the number of days is correct, but it;s close)
His point was that the Michigan rivalry was VERY IMPORTANT to him and the school.

btw, He went out and beat M that year with a southmore QB that had not played this year. (Craig Krenzel).

Jimbo

 

[Paul Wozniak]

And to rub salt in the wound, Krenzel was from Michigan.

 

[joedekock]

What was the very first thing Coach Tressel said when he made his first appearance for the Buckeyes ?

If you recall, it was during halftime of a Buckeye basketball game.
He said,
It's 332 days till Michigan, you will be proud of our team
(I don't know if the number of days is correct, but it;s close)
His point was that the Michigan rivalry was VERY IMPORTANT to him and the school.

btw, He went out and beat M that year with a southmore QB that had not played this year. (Craig Krenzel).

Jimbo

Nobody is denying that rivalries are not important. I am certainly not saying that at all. All I have been trying to get across is that given Lloyd's overall record Vs. Ohio State, and his number of Big Ten Titles in his 13 years, plus his National title, is not enough to warrant firing him just because he lost his last three games to Ohio State.

You guys are making Ohio State your everything. If Carr had beaten Ohio State all 13 years he has been coaching but not won any Big Ten or national championships, would the fans still want him gone? Or would they keep him just because he has been perfect against OSU?

 

[Jimbo]

Nobody is denying that rivalries are not important. I am certainly not saying that at all. All I have been trying to get across is that given Lloyd's overall record Vs. Ohio State, and his number of Big Ten Titles in his 13 years, plus his National title, is not enough to warrant firing him just because he lost his last three games to Ohio State.

You guys are making Ohio State your everything. If Carr had beaten Ohio State all 13 years he has been coaching but not won any Big Ten or national championships, would the fans still want him gone? Or would they keep him just because he has been perfect against OSU?

Personally Joe,
I hope he sticks around and does get a new contract ...
OSU use to do that with John Cooper, give him a contract extension after he lost to M each and every year.
I hope he 's here for another 10 years !

Jimbo

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Nobody is denying that rivalries are not important. I am certainly not saying that at all. All I have been trying to get across is that given Lloyd's overall record Vs. Ohio State, and his number of Big Ten Titles in his 13 years, plus his National title, is not enough to warrant firing him just because he lost his last three games to Ohio State.

You guys are making Ohio State your everything. If Carr had beaten Ohio State all 13 years he has been coaching but not won any Big Ten or national championships, would the fans still want him gone? Or would they keep him just because he has been perfect against OSU?

Carr is 18 -10 in his last 28 games. Can we ask him to retire? I'd hate to see happen to Michigan, what has happened to the once mighty programs of Nebraska, Florida St., Alabama, Miami (FLA), Penn St. ........OK, so Penn St. had a good season recently, first one in ten seasons though. Joe, you're right, it's tough competing out there, but if Michigan wants to continue to compete, a change in the coaching staff is necessary.

 

[Jimbo]

Carr is 18 -10 in his last 28 games. Can we ask him to retire? I'd hate to see happen to Michigan, what has happened to the once mighty programs of Nebraska, Florida St., Alabama, Miami (FLA), Penn St. ........OK, so Penn St. had a good season recently, first one in ten seasons though. Joe, you're right, it's tough competing out there, but if Michigan wants to continue to compete, a change in the coaching staff is necessary.

Didn't LLLLLoyd just change coaching staffs last year ?

Jimbo

 

[iceturkee]

btw, michigan is getting creamed. its almost halftime and oregon leads 32 to 7!

 

[Jimbo]

btw, michigan is getting creamed. its almost halftime and oregon leads 32 to 7!

7 minutes left and it's 39-7

 

[iceturkee]

so does carr have a job monday?

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Didn't LLLLLoyd just change coaching staffs last year ?

Jimbo

I'm talking about changing ALL the coaches, starting with Carr. By the way, his coach's contracts run one year longer then his. He did this to protect his coaches in the event he retired or got fired, which believe it or not , will not happen. Michigan will "let" him retire, but it's highly improbable that they will fire him. It may be just coincidence, but Michigan has not won since Bo died last year. With only the Lions left to cheer for, it's going to be a long, sad year of football for me.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Maybe last week wasn't the upset of the century. Maybe Michigan just sucks this year, and the pollsters had it all wrong.

Joedecock, what do you think of Carr now? We knew the defense was suspect, but the offense folded like a house of cards today. What Appalachian St. did last week does not look so impressive after what Oregon just did. Look at the numbers, this was truely ugly.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Any suggestions on new head coaches for Michigan? Print them here, and I'll forward them to the Michigan Athletic Dept. c/o the athletic director.