What would happen if DISH drops Viacom?
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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I'm not asking you to. I 'm simply pointing out the obvious .
IF DISH is truly looking to REDUCE the cost of their service for the customers, by dropping a suite of channels , then they should also look at reducing the costs of all their made up fees. They set the price , they can reduce the price. I have always been for the KISS method: Keep it simple stupid. Do away with all the different classes of fees, make one simple dvr fee for ALL dvr receivers and charge one additional receiver fee for all additional receiver fees. In 2010 when DISH went with all the different classes of fees and with them the different charges ,they went as far from the KISS method as possible. This is confusing to customers and it is not conducive to making you look like the "LOW PRICED LEADER" that they claim to be. It is like the fine print in a contract you find out after you sign it that nobody reads. When they get the first bill ,they see the extra fees and that automatically starts people thinking about leaving for the competition. It also makes the customer resent DISH from the start.
Who remembers when DISH used to charge you a month in advance of your bill for your first bill? How many customers started their contracts pissed off and confused by this? DISH changed it because of the customer anger over this ,but not before years had went by. How bout the $5.00 tv 2 fee that you at first could only avoid by leaving your phone line connected and were charged if your tv connection failed? How many angry subs did that policy cause? DISH consolidated all these extra fees in their additional receiver fee redo in 2010 because listing all these extra fees made DISH look like the "PIG" that they used to accuse Cable of being. OF course now you couldn't escape any of the Tv 2 fees because they were rolled up into the additional receiver fees. Remember the cable pig flying through the air commercials? Made DISH look pretty hypocritical when customers looked at their bills and saw all the miscellaneous fees.
One smaller additional receiver fee for all receivers no matter what class of receivers they are say $6.00 , One dvr fee for all dvrs no matter what class of receivers they are say $7.00 ,would be more reasonable and would clean up the bills and would make their service look like the true low priced leader they claim to be. Especially if they want to attract new subs and stave off more sub losses they have been consistently experiencing for the last few years. OF course we could continue to do what DISH has done and keep losing subs . Not all the losses are going to SLING Tv. If the last quarter was reported without the SLING subs averaged in , the true count would of been 154,000 lost, not 81,000. Charlie put them together to make his losses look less severe.
But if he is truly going to look at dropping a whole suite of channels that some people watch, in order to "save money on the programming packs for his customers" as reported, then he needs to look at changing EVERYTHING to make his service more affordable ,or he will not have a service to hold on to. Dropping these channels without trying to explain to the customer that they are doing this for the customer to keep their costs low, will just cause more churn. The sub will say : Why am I paying all these fees and extra costs and I can't get TvLAND or MTV to watch Teen Wolf ? I'm calling DIRECTV tomorrow and getting a bundle with my cell phone and save more money and get my channels back. Since DISH can't compete with a cell phone bundle ,they need to compete with lower over all costs to make their service more attractive to the cost conscience customers, they claim to advertise to. I suggest that this is the time to shake up the entire structure of DISH and announce in a big campaign that they are cutting these channels out in order to keep customer costs lower and with it they are lowering all their FEES to make it even more attractive. IF not ,by February when the next price hike comes, they will lose even more subs due to the price hike and the loss of channels the competition has and DISH does not. Remember the definition of Insanity: is doing things the same way ,every day and expecting a different outcome.
DVRs are a big help and the skipping thumb gets pretty buff.I don't even know how you guys can even watch CC. There is a commercial ever 5 minutes.
Another way DISH could help reduce you bill. If you won't change it for everybody's bill , how about offer a promo similar to the HBO promo I got: $10.00 for the life of the account. How bout offer this deal for new subs: NO DVR FEE for the life of your account ,as long as you stay with DISH and for existing subs you agree to stay with DISH for a 24 month contract ,that renews as long as you stay. 
This would give DISH subs a real good feeling about their account and at least $7.00 savings up to a $12.00 savings on their bills . DISH gets subs who stay and we get savings as long as we stay. Cuts churn and gives something of value to the customer. They could offer this deal up front with all new subs and to all existing subs in a new advertising promotion that could soften the loss of the VIACOM channels. The bundled savings with ATT and DIRECTV would be undercut because of the savings offered is near $10.00 a month for bundling your cell and video account. DISH would do you $2.00 more than that if you had the hopper.
Now they would have to pass on the savings by cutting the Viacom channels and by reducing the programming packs price to reflect it as well. But can you imagine the good will that would be generated by "loyal" DISH subs who now have NO more dvr fees as long as they stay and their bill goes down because the loss of a bunch of VIACOM channels that not many watch anyway?
CHARLIE you need to do this!
This would give DISH subs a real good feeling about their account and at least $7.00 savings up to a $12.00 savings on their bills . DISH gets subs who stay and we get savings as long as we stay. Cuts churn and gives something of value to the customer. They could offer this deal up front with all new subs and to all existing subs in a new advertising promotion that could soften the loss of the VIACOM channels. The bundled savings with ATT and DIRECTV would be undercut because of the savings offered is near $10.00 a month for bundling your cell and video account. DISH would do you $2.00 more than that if you had the hopper.
Now they would have to pass on the savings by cutting the Viacom channels and by reducing the programming packs price to reflect it as well. But can you imagine the good will that would be generated by "loyal" DISH subs who now have NO more dvr fees as long as they stay and their bill goes down because the loss of a bunch of VIACOM channels that not many watch anyway?
CHARLIE you need to do this!
Look, Dish will never (I think I can confidently say that) lower prices. To think that dropping a channel or channels should be an automatic price-drop is simply silly. When there are new contracts, it's really, really doubtful that prices remain the same as they were in a previous contract, so even when Dish claims to have "won" (on behalf of us customers), that could mean instead of the network getting a $2 increase, they settled for a $1.50 increase. It's still an increase though. Then, maybe they spread out the increase over the term of the contract.
At best, we might go a year without any price increase but even that is very unlikely.
At best, we might go a year without any price increase but even that is very unlikely.
The way I see it, they don't raise prices when they add channels, such as LHN, and when they renew a channel for a higher price, such as Fox News, until the annual price increase date... Why do we expect differently and hold a double standard when they remove a channel? If that is the case, I support them raising the package price every time a new channel is added or the cost of one channel goes up for the channels annual increase. Just do away with the one price increase a year, and that way you'll know exactly what you are paying for.
Exactly correct. If dropping Viacom off-sets all other increases in operating costs then I would say DISH should/could have no increases or in the extreme be able to reduce prices somewhere. But in reality it is likely dropping Viacom will reduce how much DISH has to go up in price.
And it seems Naive to think if they drop or reduce fees that somehow they don't have to make up that loss in revenue somewhere, and it likely will be those of us who pay minimal receiver fees and pay less for packages than many or most other carriers. My fees are FAR below Direct TV or Charter or Fios or Brighthouse. (The ones I know about) Even below their new customer costs in some cases.
We have let this notion that the fees are just "Made up" or lopped on last too long. They are part of the whole picture of how DISH receives revenue to do business, just as it is for any business. The structure DISH uses favors those who are willing to do with less equipment and then pay less for packages. This is seen nowhere more than with a comparison to Direct TV. The favor those who have more receivers while those with less pay more than with DISH.
If I had the same set up with Direct I would be paying way over $120 a year more starting with paying a fee for the first receiver. Packages and receivers would cost more. I don't want to subsidize those who would like more or newer receivers by me paying more for packages or paying for the first receiver.
If Dish was making more than they currently are in Net, I would say the fees could be considered made up. The fact that their profit is less than the dvr fee or Joey fee, shows that by eliminating these fees would put them in a loss. I didn't look at this last quarters financials, but last year Dish made something like $5.87 per sub per month net. Their net closest competitor is DTV who made $11.38 of something similar per sub per month. To sit here and try and tell me that Dish needs to start eliminating fees, when they are almost half of their closest competitor net gain, they do not look like the money hungry company they are portrayed to be. Every argument I have heard against price, has been from the emotional appeal of the price conscious consumer, and not the logical side. If you do not want to pay for all the channels, and no dvr fee, but still want playback capabilities there is a simple solution(for most) and that is SlingTV, but if you want your cake and to eat it too, it is going to cost you some coin. As Tampa, and Dare have both pointed out... In equipment costs, you get... Wait for it... What you want to pay for. Now to be fair all successful companies play on those same emotional and irrational feelings of the price concious consumer by offering a dvr, or non dvr... Knowing that consumers do not do cost analysis, they just want it now(this is not the only thing, just an example). We keep saying "Dish is losing subs", but what if it is just the deadbeats they are losing and that is why their gross and net are sooooo much higher. That would explain it. Tampa is not subsidizing the fella that has been with dish for 3 years and only made 1 1/2 years worth of payments. We should all feel good about that. Knowing that they cannot offer ala carte due to contracts currently, what is another solution people may come up with? A reasonable solution. Not the "I want I want I want" solution? Complaining about an issue without proposing a reasonable solution is called whining(this is not directed at you Mike), so let's get productive in what we ask for. How about, for every three or four years a customer is with Dish, they can remove a fee such as the DVR fee for something like 6-8 months, with a new 2 year contract. Doesn't hit the bottom dollar to much, shows loyalty, and both parties can be satisfied.
By offering the NO dvr fee contract for new subs and existing subs who stay in contract for another 24 months, is giving a DISH sub a reason to stay because of perceived value. Same thing they are doing for the HBO for $10.00 contract for the life of your account. This gives DISH a guaranteed sub for two years and gives the sub a value in less fees. This helps prevent churn and keeps the sub count up. DISH is losing subs at terrific rate. The loss of the VIACOM channels has the potential to add even more losses to their bottom line. Something needs to change in order to stave off anymore losses. Stock prices will suffer if the company is continuing to shrink in sub counts rather than grow.
Besides DISH is already offering this exact new sub promo for new subs right now and adding to it no locals fee ,no hd fee and a set $49.99 price for two years. So obviously someone at DISH thinks the same thing I am. The fees are making them look too expensive. IF they can afford to do this deal for new subs they can do it for existing subs too. This is like the $10.00 hd fee they once charged and then offered the HD for LIFE deal for subs. It is giving the subs something of perceived value, that can potentially generate loyalty to DISH and prevents a churn. NO DVR FEE for the life of the account is a great deal and would do the same thing. When you look at the competition ATT /Directv, they offer the bundle deal with your cell phone & video service that saves their subs a potential $10.00 a month. IF DISH countered with a FREE dvr FEE for life of the account , they would be offering something that exceeds in value-at least for Hopper subs. What better time to do this, than when you are already cutting out an entire suite of channels to soften the blow to subs?
IF they do cut the suite of channels from their lineup they will need to lower their programming pack prices and announce the reason why they did it in the first place; To save their customers money. In addition they can announce to soften this loss , that they will offer the NO DVR FEE For the life of the account to new and existing subs to . This would keep subs from churning over the channel loss and would engender brand loyalty to DISH for the other subs who stay with DISH- no matter what. This is a much better way to keep subs from leaving rather than throwing $10.00 off for 6 or 12 months. It would also attract new subs because they would be once again the company that doesn't charge a dvr fee. It is a win win for both subs and for DISH. Especially if the turn around stops the loss and starts the additions to the sub base once again. Making profits off a ever decreasing sub base because you continue to hike your fees and programming price on your remaining subs, is no way to sustain a company for the long haul. With the loss of the Viacom channels should be the impetus to start a whole new LOW PRICED LEADER campaign that means it.
IF you look at this in a BIG Picture way and not just defend DISH at all costs way (not intended for you CHAD), it makes perfect sense. OF course as I have already stated before you can continue to do the same thing the same way and hope for a different outcome-which is the very definition of insanity. How's that been working out for you so far Charlie?
Besides DISH is already offering this exact new sub promo for new subs right now and adding to it no locals fee ,no hd fee and a set $49.99 price for two years. So obviously someone at DISH thinks the same thing I am. The fees are making them look too expensive. IF they can afford to do this deal for new subs they can do it for existing subs too. This is like the $10.00 hd fee they once charged and then offered the HD for LIFE deal for subs. It is giving the subs something of perceived value, that can potentially generate loyalty to DISH and prevents a churn. NO DVR FEE for the life of the account is a great deal and would do the same thing. When you look at the competition ATT /Directv, they offer the bundle deal with your cell phone & video service that saves their subs a potential $10.00 a month. IF DISH countered with a FREE dvr FEE for life of the account , they would be offering something that exceeds in value-at least for Hopper subs. What better time to do this, than when you are already cutting out an entire suite of channels to soften the blow to subs?
IF they do cut the suite of channels from their lineup they will need to lower their programming pack prices and announce the reason why they did it in the first place; To save their customers money. In addition they can announce to soften this loss , that they will offer the NO DVR FEE For the life of the account to new and existing subs to . This would keep subs from churning over the channel loss and would engender brand loyalty to DISH for the other subs who stay with DISH- no matter what. This is a much better way to keep subs from leaving rather than throwing $10.00 off for 6 or 12 months. It would also attract new subs because they would be once again the company that doesn't charge a dvr fee. It is a win win for both subs and for DISH. Especially if the turn around stops the loss and starts the additions to the sub base once again. Making profits off a ever decreasing sub base because you continue to hike your fees and programming price on your remaining subs, is no way to sustain a company for the long haul. With the loss of the Viacom channels should be the impetus to start a whole new LOW PRICED LEADER campaign that means it.
IF you look at this in a BIG Picture way and not just defend DISH at all costs way (not intended for you CHAD), it makes perfect sense. OF course as I have already stated before you can continue to do the same thing the same way and hope for a different outcome-which is the very definition of insanity. How's that been working out for you so far Charlie?
I think that number is a little mis leading. Well mis leading may not be the right words. But that number is with new customer costs. Dish could not be in business if it cost $1,000 to add a sub and their ROI is 14+ years.
$1,000 / $5.87 = 14.19 years
I wonder what the number is without new customer costs?
The only problem with your solution CHad is that DISH doesn't have 3 or 4 years to go through for your solution. I wonder how many subs even stay more than two years now days anway? With Directv offering a new sub promo and cable offering all their bundle phone/internet deals. Time is running out on traditional pay tv. That is why cable and Charlie are considering dropping the Viacom suite of channels in the first place. Programming bundles are too high and have crossed past the point of diminishing returns. People are leaving in large numbers from DISH as well as other pay tv companies. IF they drop these channels and don't offer more than a small cut in programming costs from their loss, it will cause even more subs to leave for the competition. My solution ,which they are already offering to new subs for 24 months, is to expand it to existing subs who will agree to stay for another 24 months. NO DVR fee for as long as you stay with DISH is perfect solution. It makes new subs happy and attracts even more subs to your company and keeps older existing subs to stay because of the perceived value of NO DVR FEE. I know if I saw the programming packs go down by say $5.00 and I no longer have to pay a $12.00 dvr fee, it would be like a $17.00 price cut for me. It sure would make me think that I don't miss the loss of Mtv or Tvland that much at all. Conversely, if I saw my bill go down by $5.00 or less and I lost all those channels ,but still saw that my fees are just as much as ever , and come next February I saw another price hike on top of it, I would consider leaving for the competition and their new customer deals and get all my channels back. You see what I am talking about ? The BIG Picture! Prevent Churn , Grow the company and both the customer and the company win. Besides everybody in business knows that you have to spend money to Make Money. That is what new customer promos are all about.
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I agree and have advocated for ala cart or min bundles for years,but there simply is no way right now until the total collapse of traditional cable/satellite model.
IF they did raise and hike according to contract renewals or drops , it would be much easier for the sub to know why their bill has gone up, rather than an arbitrary price hike every February. By February ,no body remembers why Fox news was off the air and that they negotiated a new deal for them last year that is making you pay more this year.
That number was the profit per sub they made on average, after all expenses and liabilities paid. Take the net profit they made, divide it by the number of reported customers, and divide that by the 12 months of the year. On average, each subscriber was a $5.87 profit. You are correct that some customers are more profitable than others, but this was just based off their net profit and subscriber base at closing.
But the new customer costs are spread out among all the customers, so the ROI is a lot shorter. Without looking up the numbers, let's say there are 500,000 new subs every year (probably a high estimate). Out of 14 million subs, that equates to new sub acquisition costs to $35 per sub/year, or $3/month (500,000 * $1,000 / 14,000,000 subs / 12 months). All else being equal, the profit would go from $5.87/sub/month to $8.87/sub/month if there were no new acquisitions or cancellations.
And no, I'm not defending Dish, I'm defending facts, logic and reality.
That is exactly my point though. We are stupid consumers, Americans. That's also why they have CSRs with prewritten scripts to explain why the increase is then. Although the price raise and drop may be better for us, people would be leaving because their number one complain would be "the bill is never the same price twice". That's already a huge complaint, because again, American consumers are stupid.
No we wouldn't. Plenty of contacts are quietly negotiated that we never hear about. Just nectar becks because it didn't result in crawls on the screen or channel emails doesn't mean the rates didn't go up.
