When To Adjust Declination on a Bud Mesh Dish?

[jsattv]

Yes, leave your current elevation as is right now (46.5) on the main axis.

Put your inclinometer on the back of the dish ring and add 6.6 degrees to the current elevation and move the declination to where it is 6.6 degrees of separation total of 51.25 degrees.

Then put your inclinometer on the main axis and move the main elevation on main axis up to 50.57 degrees which would then give a reading on the back of the ring of 57.18 degrees total.

Think of it this way. The total is the sum of the two parts.

Elevation adjustment plus declination adjustment = total elevation.

Then adjust main elevation axis for signal while pointed at the South Pole, or nearest satellite to it.

Completely Lost??
Thanks linuxman, for the explanation and the great Drawings. I appologize for being a greenhorn on this stuff, mayby I need to go back to school and take Math 101 again, but here is what I think I am reading. First off the Mesh Dish is now pointed at the highest Satellite in the sky for my location - Winnipeg - which is Galaxy 25 or 97.0W. Satellite Reception on Tp's 11966 and 12155 is Not Available, on most of the other KU Band Tp's on 97.0W it is, so the Dish needs some fine tuning.

Now the Math:
Current Settings on my Mesh Dish:Declination Setting - on Small Bar = 56.5, Inclination Setting on Big Bar or Polar Axis = 46.5 So my current Declination Angle right now is: 56.5 - 46.5 = 10 degrees. This is way off.

Objective Needed for Best Satellite Reception:
Declination Setting - on Small Bar = 57.2, Inclination Setting on Big Bar or Polar Axis = 50.6 So the optimum Declination Angle needed is: 57.2 - 50.6 = 6.6 degrees. See picture attached.

Solution to Get there:
This is the part I don't understand. Are you saying Leave my current Inclination on the Big Bar at its current 46.5 degrees, and if I add 6.6 degrees to the current Inclination Setting I get: 46.5 + 6.6 = 53.1 degrees!! So should I drop / adjust my Current Declination on the Small upper Bar from its current setting of 56.5 down to 53.1??

Then once I get Declination Setting on the Small Bar down to 53.1 are you saying to then adjust Inclination from its current 46.5 up to 50.6 degrees to get the Best Satellite Signal? I guess what I don't understand is how does this get us BACK up to a Declination Setting of 57.18 or 57.2 when it will now be at 53.1?? This will give us a final Declination Angle of 53.1 - 50.6 = 2.5 unless I readjust Declination back again from 53.1 up to 57.2? Please Advise as to what I am missing here.

 

[voomvoom]

Objective Needed for Best Satellite Reception:
Declination Setting - on Small Bar = 57.2, Inclination Setting on Big Bar or Polar Axis = 50.6 So the optimum Declination Angle needed is: 57.2 - 50.6 = 6.6 degrees. See picture attached.

jsattv, this part is correct. This is what you need to try for. What Fred (linuxman) was saying, will get you there. I think what you're not understanding, is how he is telling you to get there. What he is saying will fix the Declination first, then set the Inclination. You seem to be determined to set the Inclination first and you're missing his point. But, it's OK to set the Inclination first. Everhow you go about it, what you have above is what you need to achieve. The settings above, should be correct.

 

[voomvoom]

Then once I get Declination Setting on the Small Bar down to 53.1 are you saying to then adjust Inclination from its current 46.5 up to 50.6 degrees to get the Best Satellite Signal? I guess what I don't understand is how does this get us BACK up to a Declination Setting of 57.18 or 57.2 when it will now be at 53.1?? This will give us a final Declination Angle of 53.1 - 50.6 = 2.5 unless I readjust Declination back again from 53.1 up to 57.2? Please Advise as to what I am missing here.

This is it in a nutshell. Leaving the Inclination on 46.5 and setting the Declination Bar to 53.1 will give you a 6.6 Declination. Then setting the Inclination Bar to 50.6 will get you the desired angle of 57.2 because the Declination will already be set.

 

[voomvoom]

I guess what I don't understand is how does this get us BACK up to a Declination Setting of 57.18 or 57.2 when it will now be at 53.1?? This will give us a final Declination Angle of 53.1 - 50.6 = 2.5 unless I readjust Declination back again from 53.1 up to 57.2? Please Advise as to what I am missing here.

Because when you move the Inclination Bar, the whole Dish moves, including the Declination Bar. So, it stays at 6.6 and 6.6 + 50.6 = 57.2

 

[jsattv]

Cheap V-BOX III Contacts:
One other thing I'd like to mention is I have never seen such CHEAP SPRING LOADED CONTACTS that are on the back of my V-BOX III. I have twice lost the spring in 2 of the contacts and spent a couple of hours trying to to get the springs back in these extremely poorly manufactured Contacts. Sure would like to know if someone has found a solution or experienced the same problem with their V-Box Contacts?

Yes I had the same problems with my v-box III. any tension on the wire pops the spring out. I tried the local parts shop but could find nothing to replace it with. But your right the wire clip is a real cheap component. With your wiring problem make sure the 4 of the five are connected inside the motor, and that the 2 sensor wires go to the v-box III, these work the internal counter, 12V not used at v-box end. I've got a von-weise actuator on mine but yours should work similar.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply bubby-joe. I have the same Spring Loaded type of contacts on the back of my old Uniden 9900 Receiver for the 3 wire Polorotor Control and there is just no comparison to those good Quality Sturdy contacts as compared to the V-Box III poor quality contacts. I have lost the springs 2 times on the V - Box III contacts but managed to somehow find them and struggled to put them back in with needle nose pliers and a very small jewler's screwdriver, but they are not not as good anymore and really loose now.

I do have a Von Weise 5 wire Actuator also which some have said has a Optical Sensor, besides the thicker Black and Red + and - 36 VDC wires, the Sensor wiring is as follows:

B 12VDC Sensor Power,
SEN Sensor Return,
GND Sensor Ground.

So are you suggesting that I not bother with the B 12VDC Sensor Power wire, and just wire the V-Box III with the Sensor Return and Sensor Ground wires??

 

[jsattv]

Because when you move the Inclination Bar, the whole Dish moves, including the Declination Bar. So, it stays at 6.6 and 6.6 + 50.6 = 57.2

Thanks voomvoom, for the clarification & explanation. I'll drop Declination tomorrow from 56.5 on the upper Small Bar down from 56.5 to 53.1 using my Inclinometer, then I'll move the Inclination on the Big Bar or Polar Axis up from 46.5 up to 50.6 which should resolve the problem?? Guess I could try the Trimax Sat Meter to check for optimum Tp signals as long as it doesn't freeze up!

 

[linuxman]

Al is correct.

I have taken your picture and edited it with lines.



As you can see the 6.61 degrees never changes. The reason for a declination setting is to allow the dish to properly "see" all the satellites in the arc from the center to the ends. It offsets the dish slightly for that purpose and remains constant. So you can set the 6.61 degrees at whatever the elevation angle is currently and it does not change.

Once that is set, you adjust the elevation angle to the desired 50.57 degrees which will yield a total elevation of 57.18.

Remember what Hermitman said. These adjustments are made while pointing your dish at the South Pole.

Then move to your True South satellite if it isn't at due South and adjust the lower bar only for best signal.

Hope all this helps.

Fred

 

[jsattv]

Al is correct.

I have taken your picture and edited it with lines.

View attachment 21575

As you can see the 6.61 degrees never changes. The reason for a declination setting is to allow the dish to properly "see" all the satellites in the arc from the center to the ends. It offsets the dish slightly for that purpose and remains constant. So you can set the 6.61 degrees at whatever the elevation angle is currently and it does not change.

Once that is set, you adjust the elevation angle to the desired 50.57 degrees which will yield a total elevation of 57.18.

Remember what Hermitman said. These adjustments are made while pointing your dish at the South Pole.

Then move to your True South satellite if it isn't at due South and adjust the lower bar only for best signal.

Hope all this helps.

Fred

Thanks Fred, for the great drawings, and explanations. And thanks voomvoom also for your detailed explanations. If I can - one more question - how do I locate / or adjust the Dish for the South Pole, facing direction you spoke about, as opposed to my True South facing Satellite 97.0W where the Dish is currently pointed at ?? (My Latitude = -49.92, Longitude = -97.05).

 

[linuxman]

If I can - one more question - how do I locate / or adjust the Dish for the South Pole, facing direction you spoke about, as opposed to my True South facing Satellite 97.0W?

Looking down the elevation axis and using a compass with the needle at due South, or if your True South Satellite is also at the South Pole reading, it is ok to use it, but most are off of True South by a little.

That gets your dish pointing at your highest point in the arc. The movement on the polar mount allows for bringing in the different satellites.

 

[jsattv]

Looking down the elevation axis and using a compass with the needle at due South, or if your True South Satellite is also at the South Pole reading, it is ok to use it, but most are off of True South by a little.

That gets your dish pointing at your highest point in the arc. The movement on the polar mount allows for bringing in the different satellites.

Thanks a lot Fred, after I posted I realized a compass is the answer. Pointing the compass directly at the LNB's in the middle of the Dish from the front of my back yard close to my House, seemed to indicate I was very close to Due South so I left the Dish where it is, that is pointing at Galaxy 25 / 97.0W. I Adjusted Declination from 56.5 down to about 54 & will continue tomorrow - it's too cold to do more outside today. Thanks very much, its guys like you & VoomVoom, & many others, that make this great Satellite Site so useful and valuable.

 

[linuxman]

Best of Luck to you!

I know it will turn out ok!

 

[jsattv]

Declination and Inclination Adjustments Didn't Work?

Al is correct.

I have taken your picture and edited it with lines.

View attachment 21575

As you can see the 6.61 degrees never changes. The reason for a declination setting is to allow the dish to properly "see" all the satellites in the arc from the center to the ends. It offsets the dish slightly for that purpose and remains constant. So you can set the 6.61 degrees at whatever the elevation angle is currently and it does not change.

Once that is set, you adjust the elevation angle to the desired 50.57 degrees which will yield a total elevation of 57.18.

Remember what Hermitman said. These adjustments are made while pointing your dish at the South Pole.

Then move to your True South satellite if it isn't at due South and adjust the lower bar only for best signal.

Hope all this helps.

Fred

What Am I Doing Wrong??
Tried to reduce the Declination on the 12 Ft Mesh Dish and it seemed to only get worse - the more I reduced the Declination Adjustment. When I was about done, the Small Bar Inclination reading on the Inclinometer was at 59 degree?? (When I started it was at 56 degrees). See Picture. As can be seen the Declination Bolt threads were almost hitting the Dish when I finished / gave up on the adjustment. The 2nd picture shows where the Adjustment was when I started. One thing I did notice was the Entire Big Bar or Polar mount seemed to move sideways as I lowered the Declination Nuts - see picture # 3, (Is this normal?) I was wondering if the Nut where the Declination Bolt attaches to the Big Bar should be tightened up??

As far as Inclination - I adjusted it up to 50.6 degrees but when I did the Declination was now 59.5 degrees?? See picture # 4. The red felt pen mark is where the Inclination adjustment previously was. This Dish seem stuck on trying to maintain 9.5 degrees instead of the required 6.61 degrees!! I had no Channels nothing. It took me almost 5 days - mainly due to the cold weather to finally get the Dish back to where it was so that I could at least some of the Channels on Galaxy 25 / 97.0W. So not really sure what to try next, but I sure could use some helpful suggestions as to what to try next?? To add to my confusion I spoke to a Winnipeg Sat Dealer yesterday on the phone who also has a 12 Foot Mesh Dish, and he told me that he wasn't so sure that 6.61 degrees Declination Angle works for our location? Any comments would be very much appreciated.

 

[jsattv]

What Am I Doing Wrong??
Tried to reduce the Declination on the 12 Ft Mesh Dish and it seemed to only get worse - the more I reduced the Declination Adjustment. When I was about done, the Small Bar Inclination reading on the Inclinometer was at 59 degree?? (When I started it was at 56 degrees). See Picture. As can be seen the Declination Bolt threads were almost hitting the Dish when I finished / gave up on the adjustment. The 2nd picture shows where the Adjustment was when I started. One thing I did notice was the Entire Big Bar or Polar mount seemed to move sideways as I lowered the Declination Nuts - see picture # 3, (Is this normal?) I was wondering if the Nut where the Declination Bolt attaches to the Big Bar should be tightened up??

As far as Inclination - I adjusted it up to 50.6 degrees but when I did the Declination was now 59.5 degrees?? See picture # 4. The red felt pen mark is where the Inclination adjustment previously was. This Dish seem stuck on trying to maintain 9.5 degrees instead of the required 6.61 degrees!! I had no Channels nothing. It took me almost 5 days - mainly due to the cold weather to finally get the Dish back to where it was so that I could at least some of the Channels on Galaxy 25 / 97.0W. So not really sure what to try next, but I sure could use some helpful suggestions as to what to try next?? To add to my confusion I spoke to a Winnipeg Sat Dealer yesterday on the phone who also has a 12 Foot Mesh Dish, and he told me that he wasn't so sure that 6.61 degrees Declination Angle works for our location? Any comments would be very much appreciated.

Sorry about that, My second picture showing where the Declination Bolt previously was should be as posted here.

 

[linuxman]

I don't know what to tell you at this point.

I was looking for a older video of a man setting up a BUD that I watched over a year ago on the internet. It was older analog technology, but it was very helpful for me to watch and understand how it was done.

Now I can't find it. Maybe someone here will know where it is and point the way.

 

[linuxman]

Eureka!!! Loosely translated from the Greek means "I found it"

Here is a video that will make your day, and hopefully help you understand declination/elevation a little better.

Thank goodness, it was in the link was in the C-Band FAQ section above, or I might not have found it again.

It is the fist link on the page from Boresight called Shaun Kenny - Tracking Made Easy.

Everyone should bookmark that page, download the video (which I have now done) and watch that video over and over again until it sinks in.

Just remember that some of the old technology is still the best, and the old-timers knew what they were doing.

 

[Hermitman]

Let's try to simplify this. Move the dish and dish mount so both are pointing due south - toward the south pole. Then tighten the mount's bolts to the ground pole so it won't turn. Using the upper adjustment bolt, adjust the angle between the small rectangular tube welded to the back of the dish mount and the large rectangular tube that the dish pivots around. Make this angle 6.61 degrees. Don't worry about any other angles now just get that 6.61 degrees difference between those tubes. Tighten that adjustment nut tight on that upper adjustment bolt and don't touch it again. Now power the actuator to where you think a satellite is located. The 97 degree satellite should be close. Make sure your receiver is set to a channel that is transmitting a signal from the satellite. Using the large, lower adjustment bolt, move the dish up or down till you pick up the satellite. Once you pick up a signal, power the actuator left and right and adjust the large, lower adjustment bolt for the highest signal level. If you have no luck, move your LNB polarity/skew 90 degrees and try again. That should put you on the arc. Good luck.

 

[gabshere]

after reading everything about your installation, sounds like you've been doing everything right .... just some things don't fall into the groove as easily as others.

this statement by Hermitman is the key to the whole thing

Don't worry about any other angles now just get that 6.61 degrees difference between those tubes.

after this is set doesn't really matter what the dish elevation is ( until you gain the proper signal) this will help you hit the signal at the other ends of the arc.

my declination tool ( which is from sears ) is actually off by a couple of degrees so there is a chance that yours is off slightly and skewing the numbers a bit. i hope to make a cheap version ( and i think linuxman made one) with a protractor and string to verify my readings.

good luck with it and dealing with the cold and hopefully you will have the signal locked in soon.

 

[Lynskyn]

Yes, Hermitman's comment is exactly right. Once the difference between the polar axis angle and the dish ring angle is right, never adjust the declination angle again. After that it's elevation and azimuth adjustment only. When I was installing dishes for a living I would set the declination angle on the mount before I built the dish and I never had to adjust it after that. I would go the the closest bird to true south, peak the dish on elevation, run the dish to the further satellite west and adjust the azimuth, then run it across the arc to the furthest east satellite to see if I was peaked. Usually only azimuth adjustments were needed after peaking the elevation on the true south sat.

 

[jsattv]

Thanks a lot guys, for the excellent suggestions, Wow I've got a lot of work to do!! And Fred - that Shaun Kenny Video is just outstanding!! I will keep looking at it till I fully understand it. I'll also check Hermittman's, Gabshere, and Lynskyn's instructions. Since the weather is slowly getting warmer up here, I should be able to do more outside, but first as suggested I need to really review the outstanding Videos and suggestions, thanks. Looks like the first step I'll need to do is to properly set up Declination first on Galaxy 25/ 97.0W.

 

[voomvoom]

Eureka!!! Loosely translated from the Greek means "I found it"

Thanks for the link Fred. I watched it yesterday afternoon and found it very good and informative. I never would have thought to put a grounding rod in the hole before pouring cement, good idea and it would/should be easier to knock into the ground? Of course I don't ground outside, I try to use the common ground of the house wiring, but it's still a unique idea to me?
I saved the link to my favorites and maybe I'll get around to watching the others, sooner than later?