Why So Rude Towards New Members?

[SatelliteAV]

Satellite AV became a SatelliteGuys sponsor because we wanted to be part of the community that has been known for having a helpful attitude and supporting the legal reception of satellite signals.

I have noticed a disturbing trend of Satellite Guys not being very welcoming and even attacking new members. It is starting to feel unwelcoming and taking on the flavor of a "Good 'ole Boys Club"! There is no need to brand anyone "Eye Patch", "Hacker" or anything rude and unwelcoming. No need to put them down because of a possible dubious past.... What matters is that the new member is serious about wanting to learn, participate and share their knowledge of the legal reception of satellite services.

Increasingly, new members are finding SatelliteGuys because they have equipment that may have been purchased for the theft of service, but now that it is no longer capable and they are interested in receiving the free to air channels that SatelliteGuys have always promoted.

Friday, I fielded a call from one such individual. He was obviously very knowledgeable about satellite terms, but was unfamiliar with reception of linear signals...... After discussing what equipment was necessary to receive Galaxy 19, I suggested that he visit the SatelliteGuys FTA forum and search for information and become involved. He indicated that he already had signed up, read dozens and dozens of threads, but had a bad experience when he had posted. He felt unwelcomed due to his poor choice of introductory words, had felt attacked by several members being labeled a pirate rather than having his legit question answered. He had no interest in being a member after that experience.

Is this the same group that I promote, advertise and associate with? I reviewed several recent newbie posts and realized that we are not always at our best when replying to a newbie.

I propose that we put out the welcome mat and help them learn about the "true", "real", "original" FTA. Satellite Guys should continue to be vigilant and avoid engaging in any discussion involving inappropriate subjects, but these initial interactions can be positive and direct new members into the legitimate hobby. We can answer their question then ........ gently remind them that theft of service discussion is not allowed and suggest that they be mindful of this in future posts.

Please be more considerate and understanding towards new members and the SatelliteGuys forum will once again be known as a great, friendly community that promotes the reception of free to air programming!

 

[zamar23]

+2

I'm one of these guys, who was welcome when started posting here, and get a lot of useful info at that time. So I didn't complain.

But just from recent experience, I posted a couple of links to large AZBox European software depositories with many plugins and Tutorials. In just a minute I got a PM from some member (not a Mod) saying these links MAY contain some pirate soft among other, so its "unsafe" in his view to post, and the thread was deleted. I looked again, and to my primitive knowledge in that subject nothing mentioned in the PM as unsafe was applicable to NA broadcast practices. The cumulative effect was access to reach legitimate content on a very hot STB taken away from forum members for no practical reason. I think we need to rely more on forum members own judgment and responsibility in what content to use rather than taking away useful info.

 

[guapoharry]

Brian, Your words are good advice. But I'm a little confused after not seeing this....

Regarding the Galaxy 19 poster from your account: Where is this thread?

EDIT: Alternatively, Where are threads where people are being rude or mean?

 

[turbosat]

I'm all for helping out new hobbyists who come here and seek help. On the other hand, I'm dubious about how many newbies who were 'forced' to go legit will actually stay that way, when and if the next hack comes along for pay-tv. Signal theft has hurt this hobby and limited our choices seriously. And it isn't our fault, none of us created these weak encryption systems. But I believe if the theft hadn't gotten so far out of hand, the real fta fans might have better boxes to use, and perhaps some subscription programming available to us also by now.
Many of the current receivers have card readers being used for nothing in the US.

 

[Lak7]

Zamar23,

I am sorry that you felt that my actions were "rude", but a Mod did check out your post, found it inappropriate, and removed it. My computer was properly protected, others my not be.

 

[hd fan]

I fully agree with Brian since I read this morning that kind of thread. It is our aproach what Satellite AV is calling the attention for. We can not control nor assume what people will do in the future and certainly we are here not to enforce something on or judge people's past actions. Rather we can determine our own aproach on this subject and on that I agree we should be more welcoming and remember our policies in this regards to new members so they can decide what to do later. The ultimate goal is to have a place and moment for all of us , old and new potential, hobbyiest to enjoy this wonderfull hobby (well not so wonderfull now in the canadian winter and since some good signals have gone for good, lol). Rather than exclude our aproach should be to include with the hope that they will convert one day ( and this already sounds too religious coming from an atheist guy, lol.).

 

[linuxman]

I agree with SatelliteAV about not being rude to newbies. We were all newbies at one time or another.

When I first started in this hobby, I too visited the pirate sites simply looking for knowledge. I had made up my mind early on that I wasn't interested in the theft of satellite signal, so I continued to search for a site that was dedicated to "true" FTA.

I stumbled onto Satellite Guys, and the old timers took me under their wings and taught me everything I know today.

I did read the rules, and always phrased my questions without the mention of anything that would get me banned.

Unfortunately some who have come from the other background may not have learned the vocabulary quite as well when they are just starting out here, so maybe as Brian says, give them a gentle reminder, and help them along the way.

Some, I am sure will become true converts, and we will have additional upstanding members as part of our community.

 

[DirectDishNet]

Good Post!... We all could do a little better welcoming the new members, I went ahead and added a little welcome greeting to my signature, Hope this helps.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Brian, Your words are good advice. But I'm a little confused after not seeing this....

Regarding the Galaxy 19 poster from your account: Where is this thread?

EDIT: Alternatively, Where are threads where people are being rude or mean?

Wow, don't be confused. Everyone..... don't stick your head in the sand and pretend that it doesn't happen ... regularly!

..... Who cares about a specific thread! Who cares about the member's past? Can we control what any member might do in the future? I am talking about our welcome and polite education. They are here interested in receiving free to air. Let's help them learn about receiving the free and unencrypted channels that we promote!

Read a few recent newbie posts...... Today's post was by batzzz19 in the FTA Shack about wanting a meter to find linear satellites. He mentioned a few things that indicated the previous use of the satellite gear and a few members jumped in and branded him "eyepatch" and a few other disparaging remarks.
Not a single Satellite Guy offered any assistance to answer his questions!

Oops! The thread is now deleted...... Guess it didn't happen!

Update: The thread was reactivated. Understand that the deletion was made by mistake.

 

[DirectDishNet]

Not a single Satellite Guy offered any assistance to answer his questions!

Oops! The thread is now deleted...... Guess it didn't happen!

I didn't even see it. It must of gotten deleted b4 I went to the shack.

 

[TRG]

Wow, don't be confused. Everyone..... don't stick your head in the sand and pretend that it doesn't happen ... regularly!

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never experienced it so I'm trying to understand what this is all about.

..... Who cares about a specific thread!

A link to a specific thread would give some of us an example of what you mean. Making blanket statements without being able to reference anything isn't very convincing to some of us.

That said, Brian, I appreciate your sponsorship and always enjoy your postings, products, specials and giveaways. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I don't think I did but I guess I'm not sure now.

 

[JAG72]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never experienced it so I'm trying to understand what this is all about.

A link to a specific thread would give some of us an example of what you mean. Making blanket statements without being able to reference anything isn't very convincing to some of us.

That said, Brian, I appreciate your sponsorship and always enjoy your postings, products, specials and giveaways. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I don't think I did but I guess I'm not sure now.

It's not just the FTA section that has this problem. You experience this same issue in the Dish and Directv forums have the exact same issues.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Blanket statements...... Too bad that links are necessary to prove that something is awry. Just a reminder to be helpful!

Here is an example from the thread that was removed. I have snipped the members names as I am not meaning to call any one member out from this morning's exchange. This guy was asking us for help and he was treated very poorly.

please reply, ku band channel help
i have a 33 inch dish
i only have a coolsat 7000, conaxsat nano, and a conaxsat duo trio.
which i used before. now everything is gone what else to go.

im not tryng to get a new box that will need internet acess.

they look like they don't pick up anything on free to air channels
so im planning on buying a acutrac 22 mk11 to find ku band channels

i looked around and only found this inexpensive device.
is there a better one for this.

i live in mission viejo, ca

>What do you mean "which I used before" ? What did you use it for?
>I think you are confused about what free to air is.
>It's not gone, and not going anywhere.

>>help
>>i like to get free to air not like dish or anything
>>but since i don't have a meter i wont be able to find any at the moment
>>i meant those type of free to air like international galaxy and so on
>>i also need to know if a power multiswitch will power up my setup to get
>>power to another thing wich is my dvb card it never worked directily to the lnb
>>i had to use a dish inserter back when nagra two was alive

>>>What does nagra two have to do with FTA?


>>>>Sounds like a "Patch Eye"

>>>>>Welcome to the forum! There are many free channels to watch.
>>>>>You have some great equipment and no need to buy a meter to find
>>>>>the free to air satellites like Galaxy 19. Your receiver has a
>>>>>built-in meter that is better than any inexpensive meter that
>>>>>you may be looking at.

>>>>>Make sure that you have a linear LNBF on your 33inch dish.
>>>>>Select satellite Galaxy 19 in the receiver and set the LO to
>>>>>10750 and TP frequency to 12177. Take the receiver and a small
>>>>>TV out to the dish and set the dish elevation, Azimuth and LNBF
>>>>>rotation to the coordinates provided at GeoSatFinder.com

>>>>>Make small sweeping movements of about 10 degrees on either side
>>>>>of the aiming coordinates while watching the Signal Quality Meter
>>>>>on the TV screen. Once you are on the correct satellite, the SQ
>>>>>reading will display a reading. If you are on an incorrect satellite
>>>>>or have too weak of a signal, the Quality meter will not display a
>>>>>reading.

>>>>>Good Luck!

 

[hd fan]

well done brian. now they have the facts and evidence of what happened and how it happened. if at least they would have answered the guy's question at least , but nothing , nada , seems that it is so difficult for them to help or maybe they did not know the answers eh?.

but well, enough throwing logs to the fire pit . no one wants this to happened , but the reality is that it could happen again if we do not do something about it or at least if we fail to recognize that there is something wrong. I am confident we will learn from our mistakes. cheers

 

[Anole]

IMO:

I knew the second Brian posted this thread, what he was talking about.
I saw the rude comments and was embarrassed for the forum.

Educating the newbies, regardless of their past, is the purpose (as I understand) of the forum, and specifically the FTA department.
Being polite to them could get us a new member.
That's good for everyone.

In the past, I've PM'd questionable newbies and politely suggested they watch their (hack) vocabulary.
(often just the model of receiver, dish, or LNB is the dead give-away)
But generally, the fact that they're here asking FTA-questions is a good sign. -

I thought about PMing the rude posters but decided to discuss it with one of our moderators, and see what he wanted to do.
When in doubt, that's the best course: PM Iceberg (or just keep quiet).

In the days of full-on hacking, the forum was quick to pull any unsavory thread.
Now that those days are in the past (or at least mostly so) it's no longer necessary to have such a hair-trigger.
The moderators can edit posts to remove links, and PM the posters privately.
I'm sad that we need these public discussions of what everyone should already know.

In regard to an AZ support site having European hacking info (if that was the situation), I think the leadership here needs to take an unwavering decision one way or the other.
And sadly, I must say, if North American hack-support should ever become available, those sites will certainly have it in the future.
And that IS sufficient reason to not promote them today.

 

[DirectDishNet]

Wait a minute here, At risk of causing some feathers to ruffle, Just want to say that I don't know if I like where this thread is going.

1st, I think a simple PM to the perpetrators in question would of sufficed. The majority of the members here do a great job in welcoming new members and donating their time to help our members.
2nd, If anyone came across a little too hard on someone whom have been wearing the "Pirate patch" in the past, it is only because they value this website as I do and wanted to nip it in the bud as soon as possible. One thing I have noticed about our members is that we are proud of this website and the direction that it is taking.

Brian, All due respect, I don't think that there is a need for this thread any longer. I understand that you have a business to protect and I respect that. But by publicly voicing your frustrations may do more harm than good. Some of our full time die hard members may take it the wrong way and not participate in the forums as much as they do now.

Anyway, Thats my .02 cents. Tar and feather me if you wish.

 

[SatelliteAV]

I agree! This thread is starting to move away from the original intent.

I participate in this forum because satellites are my hobby. My post had nothing to do with protecting business or with administrative forum management of threads. It has everything to do with putting our best foot forward and being a friendly place to promote our hobby and promote interest in legal reception of satellite signals.

Thank you everyone for helping make this forum a great community!

 

[Bill_KY]

I have been here for a year and a half, yet I still consider myself a newbie. I have always received courteous and good replies to questions I have asked and I am grateful for this site and its members.

 

[zamar23]

In regard to an AZ support site having European hacking info (if that was the situation), I think the leadership here needs to take an unwavering decision one way or the other.
And sadly, I must say, if North American hack-support should ever become available, those sites will certainly have it in the future.
And that IS sufficient reason to not promote them today.

A link to AZ archive site is not a marketing trick, but service to forum members. Haven't seen any European sites promoting NA signal hacking. You presume, they'll start in the future? When exactly and for what reason? And because of such your "assumption" we must block access to them now? Timeliness is everything in any business. I don't think many of these sites will exist when this "future" comes. AZBox will be well forgotten by then for sure. There will be plenty Linux receivers showing up withing 2010.

 

[stogie5150]

:rant::rant::rant:

Everyone was a newbie here. We all started from zero. The difference is some folks try to educate themselves BEFORE asking questions. Its painfully obvious to a lot of the veteran guys, and the Moderators here, who the former hackers are, just how they ask the questions and the terminology they use. AND the fact that they do NO research on their own, they expect to be TOLD everything, just like when they needed a BIN to get their free tv back. If someone isn't wiling to at least read some FAQ's and learn what an LNB is, what size dish they need, what's on each satellite...I see the same questions asked over and over, and the answers are in the FAQ for goodness sakes! HELP YOURSELF FIRST, is what I am saying.

I will NOT waste electrons answering questions that are easily found with a simple search. Its painfully obvious to me that some of these newbies don't even know how to spell search.


:rant::rant::rant::rant:


I think maybe we need some words from our site owner and Moderator.....if they had a problem I think we'd have heard about it by now.

There's my .02. For what its worth, no more than anyone else, surely.