WOW-- Has the format war Heated Up?

[JoeSp]

The HD-DVD crowd is burning midnight oil like there is no tommorow -- which could just be the case. HD-DVD supporters are posting like madmen over their favorite format and against the evil BD doers of Sony evil! The HD-DVD group has pulled out all the stops this XMAS with buying exclusivity from studios, lowering prices, getting the Chinese on board.

Lets recap, Transformers comes out to much ballyhoo and instantly becomes a target. Paramount announces fake numbers, tries to grab the number one spot of a HD-DVD release movie and also announces that the reason that there was no DolbyTrueHD was that there was not enough space -- on two discs? But to save the day many HD-DVD fanbots immediately post that it was not the space but the bandwith? Seems the bandwith was the real answer but what can you expect from Paramount and Dreamworks when they can not even get their sales numbers right? At least they delivered a great HD product in both the PQ and sound. And that is all that counts -- right?

Then HD-DVD has to remove the HD-DVD Jack Ryan Collection from the shelves and recall because the discs did not have the features listed on the back of the retail box. Seems DVD is more capable of those features then HD-DVD as this was the DVD box art and not the HD-DVD box. Good enough reason for me.

Toshiba pulls out its lower price gun and hits the $198 price for the A2. A definate must if you have to have HD-DVD but the player is just not that good. No 1080p (that's okay if you don't have that either) and it is as slow as my granny on XMAS morning but the price is right to move. Question is, what is up that is exclusive after the Borne Supremacy and Shrek 3 that BD is not going to be offering too?

After all this, the Chinese have moved into the market with their HD-DVD player price at ? I haven't seen one yet so who knows. But I keep hearing that low cost is the reason someone buys a HD-DVD player not the movies? Disney anyone?

Now a new feature is going to be offered -- the studio store! Now during a movie you can click on an item and purchase it direct from the studio store if it is available! You gotta know Sears is quaking in their boots right now! Guys -- kiss those remotes goodby as the wife and girlfriend start shopping during the movie!

Bottom line, HD-DVD better start winning where it counts -- in total disc sales or maybe the fanbots are just not yelling loud enough? Because if the discs sales don't improve some retailers might start taking things in their own hands and we all know that is not what the consumer wants.

Will HD-DVD finally triumph or will the evil BD group have their way. Stay tuned!

 

[teamerickson]

Yada, Yada, Yada!

 

[r.jones1116]

The world according to JoeSP as seen through blu colored glasses. YAWN.

 

[meStevo]

I really don't have the time, so I will just wait for the Cochise/Diogen smackdown and return to this thread later.

Joe has reached a new low.

 

[teachsac]

Joe has reached a new low.

Nah. There's been a few of them throughtout this. I'm thinking we should all chip in and get him an HD-DVD player for Christmas so he can start being an HD fan.

S~

 

[teamerickson]

Nah. There's been a few of them throughtout this. I'm thinking we should all chip in and get him an HD-DVD player for Christmas so he can start being an HD fan.

S~

I'm in!

 

[diogen]

Will HD-DVD finally triumph or will the evil BD group have their way. Stay tuned!

I know it is not on business school mandatory reading list, but did you, Joe, ever read Anton Chekhov?
He is one of those writers, whose least known pieces tell more about him than the ones he is famous for (not unlike "Marienbad Elegy" of Goethe, Stanislav Lem of Poland, Honore de Balzac, etc)
One of his sayings goes something like this: "If your woman is cheating on you, be happy she doesn't do it on her country". Chekhov was a big womanizer and knew the subject very intimately...
As always, when translating between two different cultures, it loses some meaning when in a different language (it is much shorter and to the point in Russian), but the idea is the same: You have to be positive in the sh!ttiest of circumstances.

I think you follow this advice to the "t"...

BD is in trouble. Everybody knows it. Everybody sees it. Sub-$200 players are here and now.
The best the BD studious can come up with is bitching about Paramount lying. The "We have won... at least 5 times" is forgotten. Shoving a free BD movie to everybody deciding to buy one is the only one way to prevail in discs sales... by 1%. 10 BD discs cost under $100 - if this is not a sign of desparation, what is? Sony gaming division close to $1 bln in the red for another quarter and the $399 PS3 hasn't even started selling yet (do you think they will make money on it?) And it looks like they would have to cut it in half to stay relevant in this race... The cheapest standalone BD player is 3 times more than HD...

And after all this the best you can come up with is "Has the format war Heated Up?".
To answer your (rhetorical, no doubt, but still) question "No, everything is Cool...No temperature increase... Maybe in BDA boardroom..."

I don't think this is the end. It's not even the beginning of the end. Just the the end of the beginning... (forgot who said that)*.
But if BD doesn't want to be remembered as Beta-ray (or Blu-max, pick one) they better do something... Pronto.

Diogen.

EDIT:
* It was said by Chirchill in 1942 after the battle of El-Alamein

Now, this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Globalization: End of the Beginning — or Beginning of the End? by Éloi Laurent - The Globalist > > Global Economy

 

[CochiseGuy]

Joe has reached a new low.

Yep.

I saw the thread title, and thinking it has gotten a little testy in here lately, was hoping it was a truce offering - as in, let's all be a little more civil and positive, and point out the positive things instead of just anything negative we can think of against the High-def format we don't own or prefer. Guess not.

I really don't have the time, so I will just wait for the Cochise/Diogen smackdown and return to this thread later.

No thanks. After this post, I'm not touching this thread with a 10' pole.


EDIT: On second thought . . . .. . .

Nah. There's been a few of them throughtout this. I'm thinking we should all chip in and get him an HD-DVD player for Christmas so he can start being an HD fan.

S~

Only if we include Navychop in the collection plate.

- Love the new Avatar, teach.

 

[db2]

If one were to form an opinion on the format war by doing nothing but reading tech forums you'd think an HD-DVD victory was a forgone conclusion.

The fact that BD sales are still strong tells me that the majority of the tech crowd supports HD-DVD and that's why you see a disproportionate number of HD-DVD supporters on forums like this.

Personally, I won't consider Blu-Ray ''in trouble'' until they start losing in weekly software sales consistantly.

 

[meStevo]

If one were to form an opinion on the format war by doing nothing but reading tech forums you'd think an HD-DVD victory was a forgone conclusion.

The fact that BD sales are still strong tells me that the majority of the tech crowd supports HD-DVD and that's why you see a disproportionate number of HD-DVD supporters on forums like this.

Personally, I won't consider Blu-Ray ''in trouble'' until they start losing in weekly software sales consistantly.

That's a good observation, I see this is an indication of the sophistication/dedication of the HDDVD proponents, and with BD it's just the infancy of mass market appeal due to higher hardware penetration.

I think this is also supported primarily by the attach rate, and is why the HD SW sales are relatively strong in the face of overwhelming competing player numbers.

 

[diogen]

If one were to form an opinion on the format war by doing nothing but reading tech forums you'd think an HD-DVD victory was a forgone conclusion.

Whenever you need to balance an HD bias you find on forums like this (that I don't think exists),
visit br.com - it will be fixed in five minutes of reading... If you can stand it that long.

Diogen.

 

[db2]

Whenever you need to balance an HD bias you find on forums like this (that I don't think exists),
visit br.com - it will be fixed in five minutes of reading... If you can stand it that long.

Diogen.

Oh BD bias forums are out there, no doubt about it but IMHO MOST tech forums seem to have an HD-DVD bias.

If you visit the HDM part of AVS forum (the one that covers both formats), three quarters of the posts on there are in favor of HD-DVD. With the exception of last week, 2x more blu-ray discs are sold each week in the U.S. than hd-dvd discs. Something here doesn't add up.

I don't know if I'm right but my deduction is that the tech crowd (who are more likely to post on tech forums) has, for the most part, supported hd-dvd. And hence the reason you see so many more posts on tech forums in support of hd-dvd.

Just my guess.

 

[diogen]

If you visit the HDM part of AVS forum (the one that covers both formats), three quarters of the posts on there are in favor of HD-DVD.

I have to question your metric.
If you remove half a dozen "extremist" posters (most prolific) from each side, it ain't so bad.
And AVS remains the only forum that has a reasonable amount of information and a much higher
IQ of posters than any other forum I've seen (I mostly read the HTPC section).

You probably haven't read AVS when they started covering the "war": it was the opposite to what you see today...

Diogen.

 

[roachxp]

5 MILLION

Thats the total number of Blu and Red disc sold since this war started in 2006, whats that like what Transformers sold on regular DVD in 3 days.

The only thing that can end this war is:

1. Prices ($199 cheap enough? or do consumers want cheaper?)

2. More then 1 major studio switch sides (so what if WB goes RED again?, they still have to get one more major player to join and Disney would be thinking deeply, remember they were in HD DVD neck deep with all the features they helped build till Sony dropped off moneybags before both formats launched touting better security BJ+ which was crack in what 14 days after first title release)

3. Customer education (J6P isn't going to buy anything if he isn't informed even if the price is low, they need kiskos setup and informed CSR, not BB types ones that confused u more then help)

 

[bsk116]

I know it is not on business school mandatory reading list, but did you, Joe, ever read Anton Chekhov?
He is one of those writers, whose least known pieces tell more about him than the ones he is famous for (not unlike "Marienbad Elegy" of Goethe, Stanislav Lem of Poland, Honore de Balzac, etc)
One of his sayings goes something like this: "If your woman is cheating on you, be happy she doesn't do it on her country". Chekhov was a big womanizer and knew the subject very intimately...
As always, when translating between two different cultures, it loses some meaning when in a different language (it is much shorter and to the point in Russian), but the idea is the same: You have to be positive in the sh!ttiest of circumstances.

I think you follow this advice to the "t"...

BD is in trouble. Everybody knows it. Everybody sees it. Sub-$200 players are here and now.
The best the BD studious can come up with is bitching about Paramount lying. The "We have won... at least 5 times" is forgotten. Shoving a free BD movie to everybody deciding to buy one is the only one way to prevail in discs sales... by 1%. 10 BD discs cost under $100 - if this is not a sign of desparation, what is? Sony gaming division close to $1 bln in the red for another quarter and the $399 PS3 hasn't even started selling yet (do you think they will make money on it?) And it looks like they would have to cut it in half to stay relevant in this race... The cheapest standalone BD player is 3 times more than HD...

And after all this the best you can come up with is "Has the format war Heated Up?".
To answer your (rhetorical, no doubt, but still) question "No, everything is Cool...No temperature increase... Maybe in BDA boardroom..."

I don't think this is the end. It's not even the beginning of the end. Just the the end of the beginning... (forgot who said that)*.
But if BD doesn't want to be remembered as Beta-ray (or Blu-max, pick one) they better do something... Pronto.

Diogen.

EDIT:
* It was said by Chirchill in 1942 after the battle of El-AlameinGlobalization: End of the Beginning — or Beginning of the End? by Éloi Laurent - The Globalist > > Global Economy

I'm sure Wally world will move a lot of those cheap, er sorry, inexpensive players and I also think HDDVD might be in trouble, how many consumers who throw that $200 player in their shopping cart will actually make the connection that they have to buy HDDVD software to enjoy HD?
It's possible that the cheaper (less money) standard version of a favorite movie will be purchased over the the more expensive HD version.
In short, lot's of hardware sold but not so much software. I believe you call that attach rate.

 

[vurbano]

Whenever you need to balance an HD bias you find on forums like this (that I don't think exists),
visit br.com - it will be fixed in five minutes of reading... If you can stand it that long.

Diogen.

BR.com makes me puke. Its FKN ridiculous. I'm sure Joe hangs out there, gathers ammo and shoots it on over here though. Really pathetic. Say anything negative about their GOD, Bill "the shill" Hunt from the digital bits and they instantly ban you. One of the mods at AVS even gave me demerits for reffering to Beatboy's review of transformers as being written by an 8 year old BD shill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith
...was this written by an 8 year old? Talk about desperation in getting a review out before anyone else.

"The sound was clear."

"The picture was good."

"The commentary was interesting."

Oh.

To which I responded:

Yes, the 8 year old BluRay shill himself.


I find that statement highly accurate myself. SO next thing I know "Dr Don" issues me a 3 point infraction stating that I obviously attacked another member? :haha :haha Are you kidding me? Thats an "attack"? When did AVS turn into BluRay.com? Let me tell you something if I attacked him there would have been nothing left. That statement I made was a flick at a fly on my shoulder.


For some reason these idiots are protected at AVS and thrive at BR.com where they spread their crap, organize attacks on HD DVD forums and etc. The real problem with civil discussion about the two formats is the influx of immature PS3 children into all of the forums, IMO. Now we have teenage gamers supporting BD in the forums and its a mess.

 

[vurbano]

I'm sure Wally world will move a lot of those cheap, er sorry, inexpensive players and I also think HDDVD might be in trouble, how many consumers who throw that $200 player in their shopping cart will actually make the connection that they have to buy HDDVD software to enjoy HD?
It's possible that the cheaper (less money) standard version of a favorite movie will be purchased over the the more expensive HD version.
In short, lot's of hardware sold but not so much software. I believe you call that attach rate.

Umm that $199 HD DVD at walmart is going to be one of the most expensive units they sell. J6P tight with his money is going to read very carefully about what he is buying at 200 bucks. He certainly knows it isnt a 50 dollar DVD player.

 

[ONUOsFan]

Umm that $199 HD DVD at walmart is going to be one of the most expensive units they sell. J6P tight with his money is going to read very carefully about what he is buying at 200 bucks. He certainly knows it isnt a 50 dollar DVD player.

I actually disagree, at least to a point. Yes, there are a lot of people (especially at Wal-Mart, probably) who will go for the $35 DVD player... but I can remember my first DVD player was over $200 at Target, and it was fairly early on, but not that early - I don't think they stocked VHS tapes for longer than a year, maybe 18 months, after I bought it... of course, there was no other alternative then. But the point is that it hasn't been that long ago that you had to pay $200 for a good PS DVD player...

Personally, if my DVD player died today, I probably would buy an HD-DVD player to balance out my PS3, and so that I didn't have to use that to upconvert my DVD's. That is, if my wife would let me...

 

[Derwin0]

1. Prices ($199 cheap enough? or do consumers want cheaper?)

Consumers want a price that is equal to current DVD prices (both player and discs). DVD really took off when it reached price parity with VHS.
Until then, Joe Sixpack and his checkbook carrying wife, will continue to buy DVD's instead of blu-ray or HD-DVD (remember, the kid's DVD player and the car player won't play HD).

 

[bsk116]

Consumers want a price that is equal to current DVD prices (both player and discs). DVD really took off when it reached price parity with VHS.
Until then, Joe Sixpack and his checkbook carrying wife, will continue to buy DVD's instead of blu-ray or HD-DVD (remember, the kid's DVD player and the car player won't play HD).

Exactly my point, even if they DID buy the HD player it's very likely they will purchase the non HD DVD movies primarily because of price and secondly, and unfortunately, because they are unaware of the difference.