LPB moved to 87?

[Tron]

yes LPB is DVB-S2

Which would probably make it next to impossible to get using a dual band LNBF on PortaBUD. If they made a stacked C-Ku Band LNBF, I'd give it a shot though...

 

[avenger]

Have been trying to receive and view the LPB channel at the 87W satellite using the Fortec Lifetime Ultra as well as the Viewsat Ultra with no results. In the matter of fact none of the PBS channels come in at this satellite location.

I am hoping that the GEOSATpro microHD that I am planing to give myself for my late Christmas present, will be able to correct that problem.

Living in the New Orleans area is a good thing because I am able to view one of the LPB channel via OTA, but it would be nice to see most of the others FTA PBS channels. That is what my two gradkids watch most of the time.

It feels like Christmas is dragging along this year. Ha, Ha, Ha.


avenger.

 

[Mr Tony]

Have been trying to receive and view the LPB channel at the 87W satellite using the Fortec Lifetime Ultra as well as the Viewsat Ultra with no results. In the matter of fact none of the PBS channels come in at this satellite location.

LPB is DVB-S2 and those 2 receivers only receive DVB

 

[Keystone7]

Once we have the new DVB-S2 receiver, would we need to worry about the AC 3 issue of sound. Would the new reciever decode the sound to the Tv? Just asking! Thanks.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Last night as I was setting up my dad's replacement S9 I did a blind scan of all ku satellites and it found LPBS on 125 and 87 but I ignored the ones on 125 and only added the ones on 87 to his favorites as that's it's final destination anyway. Dad doesn't care anyway, he just uses the favorites button to get to the channels he prefers.

When it was on 125 it was a little touchy on the reception. Now that it's on 87, it's very strong and stable. This is a WIN for everyone. Well, everyone in the middle of the US with a clear shot at 87, I suppose..

 

[avenger]

LPB is DVB-S2 and those 2 receivers only receive DVB

That was my point, those two receivers are almost obsolete. On with the new technology.

 

[Mr Tony]

Once we have the new DVB-S2 receiver, would we need to worry about the AC 3 issue of sound. Would the new reciever decode the sound to the Tv? Just asking! Thanks.

nope it will decode just fine to the TV...no extra equipment needed

 

[Mr Tony]

That was my point, those two receivers are almost obsolete.

not really. There isnt much S2 on KU other than PBS. ONce in a while some sports feeds but most are still DVB. Use the Coolsat 5000 all day Saturdays scanning for football feeds

 

[Keystone7]

Thanks Iceberg, Can't wait till Satellite AV gets their new box!That should take care of the sound issue. Thanks again!

 

[Keith Brannen]

Looks like LPBS has left 125 early, no signal on the transponder all day.

 

[Mr Tony]

2 weeks ago it was posted that they would leave 125W in 2 weeks
LPB site already shows the new parameters

 

[ifb]

Looks like LPBS has left 125 early, no signal on the transponder all day.

Correct. Everything is moved that needs to be moved.

 

[avenger]

not really. There isnt much S2 on KU other than PBS. ONce in a while some sports feeds but most are still DVB. Use the Coolsat 5000 all day Saturdays scanning for football feeds

Thanks Iceberg,

I guess that I was a little bit too harsh on them. Considering that those are the only two receivers that I own, they have given me some good useage. Even though they are missing quite a few things, such as AC3 for one and and other things that are now more needed and desireable.

 

[emuman100]

My question is, why did LPB move anyway? I could imagine if the signal was hard to receive for us, it was hard to receive for member stations with large 6.1 meter dish antennas too. I never particularly like the move to DVB-S2 for any signal, and most signals that have transitioned over would work fine on DVB-S, like LPB, but I guess it's done to future proof themselves.

Montana PBS is another gem lost to DVB-S2. From what I could remember, they wanted to switch to DVB-S2 when they start to go all HD. I don't know if this is true or not. Even if they go all HD, DVB-S will be plenty.

If they lease a transponder, don't they have to lease all bandwidth of a transponder, or do they have the option to lease only part of it for a cheaper price? And whether you have a 25mbit transport stream modulated DVB-S or S2, it still uses the same amount of bandwidth, no?

From what I gather, DVB-S2 is best for larger bandwidths or very high bitrate streams, as most of those streams contain mpeg4 video, does this mean PBS will eventually transition to mpeg4 or am I just speculating? I think I saw an H.264 SCPC PBS feed on The List on 125W.

Since I use commercial equipment and have a mini headend set up on my clothes closet, DVB-S2 and mpeg4 trouble me greatly, as good commercial equipment is super expensive and hard to find second hand. You can find good commercial DVB-S receivers second hand, namely the Scientific Atlanta D9850, which work beautifully, even with non-powervu unencrypted signals. I have one tuned to the PBS HD feed on 12140MHz on 125W and the other tuned to DW-TV on 3740MHz on 103W, both run rock solid stable, never freeze up or lock up, and always output the transport stream no matter what. I have both connected to QAM modulators. These receivers can be picked up pretty cheap on eBay, but the whole story changes for S2 and mpeg4 stuff.

I hope the PBS HD feeds on 12140MHz stay for a very long, long time in mpeg2 and DVB-S.

 

[ifb]

My question is, why did LPB move anyway?

Cost.

I could imagine if the signal was hard to receive for us, it was hard to receive for member stations with large 6.1 meter dish antennas too.

No. DVB-S2 8PSK 3/5 has nearly equivalent C/N requirements to DVB-S QPSK 3/4, but with 42% more payload capacity.

If they lease a transponder, don't they have to lease all bandwidth of a transponder, or do they have the option to lease only part of it for a cheaper price? And whether you have a 25mbit transport stream modulated DVB-S or S2, it still uses the same amount of bandwidth, no?

You pay for occupied bandwidth in MHz. How you use that bandwidth (modulation/constellation/FEC) is up to you and will of course affect throughput.

From what I gather, DVB-S2 is best for larger bandwidths or very high bitrate streams, as most of those streams contain mpeg4 video, does this mean PBS will eventually transition to mpeg4 or am I just speculating?

DVB-S2 is good for anyone who wants to use less bandwidth (MHz). That translates into reduced recurring costs. LPB previously occupied 20 MHz but currently uses 15 MHz. I can tell you the amount saved dwarfs the incremental capital that was needed to move to DVB-S2 three years ago.

PBS will move to H.264. Encoder evaluation is in progress. Note that LPB and PBS each make decisions that are in their own best interest. Each has different technical and operation requirements. PBS doing H.264 or DVB-S2 doesn't mean LPB or any other member station must follow.

Since I use commercial equipment and have a mini headend set up on my clothes closet, DVB-S2 and mpeg4 trouble me greatly, as good commercial equipment is super expensive and hard to find second hand.

IRDs with SDI and HDMI output can be had for under $1500 that do S2 and H.264.

I hope the PBS HD feeds on 12140MHz stay for a very long, long time in mpeg2 and DVB-S.

I'd guess you have 18 months left, but I'm speculating.

 

[emuman100]

Cost.
No. DVB-S2 8PSK 3/5 has nearly equivalent C/N requirements to DVB-S QPSK 3/4, but with 42% more payload capacity.
You pay for occupied bandwidth in MHz. How you use that bandwidth (modulation/constellation/FEC) is up to you and will of course affect throughput.DVB-S2 is good for anyone who wants to use less bandwidth (MHz). That translates into reduced recurring costs. LPB previously occupied 20 MHz but currently uses 15 MHz. I can tell you the amount saved dwarfs the incremental capital that was needed to move to DVB-S2 three years ago.

This explains quite a lot. I still don't understand how it reduces cost. If I'm an uplink and I only use 15MHz and the rest is not being used, how does the satellite operator pass along the savings?

PBS will move to H.264. Encoder evaluation is in progress. Note that LPB and PBS each make decisions that are in their own best interest. Each has different technical and operation requirements. PBS doing H.264 or DVB-S2 doesn't mean LPB or any other member station must follow.

Each member station will need to upgrade equipment. I think they use IRDs that accept different input cards and such, but then they'd need the expensive mpeg4 to mpeg2 transcoding equipment.

IRDs with SDI and HDMI output can be had for under $1500 that do S2 and H.264.

Still very pricey compared to DVB-S mpeg2 equipment. End point devices like tuners don't decode mpeg4 yet, like TiVo.

I'd guess you have 18 months left, but I'm speculating.

[/QUOTE]

Sucks, as I really enjoy these feeds very much. I won't be able to get an IRD with ASI output for under $350.

 

[Mr Tony]

My question is, why did LPB move anyway? I could imagine if the signal was hard to receive for us, it was hard to receive for member stations with large 6.1 meter dish antennas too. I never particularly like the move to DVB-S2 for any signal, and most signals that have transitioned over would work fine on DVB-S, like LPB, but I guess it's done to future proof themselves.

I posted my thoughts earlier in the thread on why they moved

This is good. Nice strong signal on 87W (with the new satellite) and also unlike the national PBS stations which are on 125W because they need to be CONUS (as in all PBS stations have to grab the feed) LPB is only for Louisiana...87W works good as its near their true south (91W is true south in Baton Rouge)...less issues with rain. After all a dish aimed that far west has more susceptible to rain fade than one aimed pretty much straight up

 

[emuman100]

I posted my thoughts earlier in the thread on why they moved

This is good. Nice strong signal on 87W (with the new satellite) and also unlike the national PBS stations which are on 125W because they need to be CONUS (as in all PBS stations have to grab the feed) LPB is only for Louisiana...87W works good as its near their true south (91W is true south in Baton Rouge)...less issues with rain. After all a dish aimed that far west has more susceptible to rain fade than one aimed pretty much straight up

It makes a lot on sense. When my 90cm Prodelin was in it's old location I couldn't even dream of getting the LPB feed, now there might be hope in it's new location, but I want it at 125W for the PBS HD feeds. If they were concerned about rain fade, why didn't they stay with C Band distribution? Is Ku band cheaper?

 

[Mr Tony]

I didnt think they were C-Band ever...

I get the new location great on a 76cm dish in Minnesota. No need to move the dish to find it. Dish is peaked on 87W and comes in at 73 on the Manhattan (and with the sports feeds on 87W my motor doesnt get a workout going over to 125)

 

[ifb]

This explains quite a lot. I still don't understand how it reduces cost. If I'm an uplink and I only use 15MHz and the rest is not being used, how does the satellite operator pass along the savings?

The satellite operator doesn't "pass" savings, because there isn't savings. It's a similar business model to an ISP. You have the cable/DSL package that's $50/month for 50 Mbps. You spend money to get a new computer that can play AVC video files. You can now pirate movies that are half the size but look just as good. You decide to save $25/month and drop down to the tier that's only 20 Mbps. There's no savings to the provider, but you cut your monthly bill in half and all you had to spend was the cost of a new computer. Oh, and the old computer was out of warranty and about to die anyway so you had to get something new.

It's up to the ISP (or satellite provider) to sell capacity to maximize their profits. Either charge less and have more customers or have fewer customers paying more. The difference with a satellite operator is that they can't oversubscribe bandwidth like an ISP, and they don't have to pay for peering connections to other Internet providers.

Each member station will need to upgrade equipment. I think they use IRDs that accept different input cards and such, but then they'd need the expensive mpeg4 to mpeg2 transcoding equipment.

PBS provides IRDs. The current Sencore IRDs are modular, but they are also end of life. I believe the plan is in fact to replace them all.

Still very pricey compared to DVB-S mpeg2 equipment. End point devices like tuners don't decode mpeg4 yet, like TiVo.

MPEG-4 AVC and DVB-S2 solve separate problems. You can do one without the other. Also consumer devices are an entirely different issue. What a provider uses for contribution has no effect on what end users receive. ATSC is still MPEG-2 (theoretically you could do AVC, but we'll ignore that). I don't know what the rules for cable are, but AFAIK only IPTV providers are using AVC.