LPB moved to 87?

[ifb]

It makes a lot on sense. When my 90cm Prodelin was in it's old location I couldn't even dream of getting the LPB feed, now there might be hope in it's new location, but I want it at 125W for the PBS HD feeds. If they were concerned about rain fade, why didn't they stay with C Band distribution? Is Ku band cheaper?

LPB has never been C band. There are historical reasons why that is the case (going back 20 years). To abandon Ku would easily require several hundred thousand dollars. It's not worth it, even though I believe C band is generally cheaper.

 

[Mr Tony]

the other advantage if they went C-Band (no dont) is rain fade elimination (or very minimal)

 

[Dee_Ann]

LPB on 87w is rockin here in SE Texas. I'm 50 miles west of Lake Charles, LA. so this is a win-win for people in the vicinity of Louisiana.
I'm getting it great on my S10 and my dad is getting it great on his S9 a few miles from here.

Previously, here in this area, the LPB channels on 125w were weak and touchy and didn't always come in all that great.
It was pretty common to see those fonky blocks all over the picture. "Lego-vision" would be a good way to describe it.
It's great now.

I am glad they moved. I think it was a good deal for everyone, at least the intended audience anyway..

 

[Mr Tony]

yep looks like its working way better for folks on 87W than 125W
(unless you have a fixed dish at 125)

 

[emuman100]

The satellite operator doesn't "pass" savings, because there isn't savings. It's a similar business model to an ISP. You have the cable/DSL package that's $50/month for 50 Mbps. You spend money to get a new computer that can play AVC video files. You can now pirate movies that are half the size but look just as good. You decide to save $25/month and drop down to the tier that's only 20 Mbps. There's no savings to the provider, but you cut your monthly bill in half and all you had to spend was the cost of a new computer. Oh, and the old computer was out of warranty and about to die anyway so you had to get something new.

It's up to the ISP (or satellite provider) to sell capacity to maximize their profits. Either charge less and have more customers or have fewer customers paying more. The difference with a satellite operator is that they can't oversubscribe bandwidth like an ISP, and they don't have to pay for peering connections to other Internet providers.

I suppose my question is, if an uplink only pays for 15MHz, does that mean the rest of the bandwidth on the transponder can't be used by another uplink? Or can multiple uplinks share one transponder?

PBS provides IRDs. The current Sencore IRDs are modular, but they are also end of life. I believe the plan is in fact to replace them all.

I'm assuming the Sencore IRDs were in use before the implementation of the NGIS then? Because if they were implemented when the NGIS system was first implemented, I'd say their lifespan is really short.

MPEG-4 AVC and DVB-S2 solve separate problems. You can do one without the other. Also consumer devices are an entirely different issue. What a provider uses for contribution has no effect on what end users receive. ATSC is still MPEG-2 (theoretically you could do AVC, but we'll ignore that). I don't know what the rules for cable are, but AFAIK only IPTV providers are using AVC.

Both create problems for smaller cable operators and "hobbyist" cable operators like me. DVB-S2 modulation means the IRD has to be upgraded, which you won't find one for less than $800, even with just ASI output. MPEG-4 isn't an issue if I were to multicast the transport stream via IP, but it's an issue for endpoint consumer devices, like a ATSC/QAM tuner in a TV or a TiVo, which probably won't even recognize an MPEG-4 transport stream, let alone decode the video and audio. This means I'll need to get equipment for transcoding, which won't be less than $1500.

Motorola makes IRDs for broadcasters who went to DCII DVB-S2 MPEG-4 transmission which not only output a MPEG-4 TS via ASI, but transcode that to MPEG-2 and output that to another ASI output, as well as down convert to SD for analog video output. So these great IRDs are perfect for MPEG-2 and analog headends, but there is no solution like that for DVB-S2 MPEG-4 stuff that is unencrypted.

 

[toucan-man]

What does a hobbyist cable system do? Who does it serve?

 

[Mr Tony]

I suppose my question is, if an uplink only pays for 15MHz, does that mean the rest of the bandwidth on the transponder can't be used by another uplink? Or can multiple uplinks share one transponder?

more than one uplinker can use a transponder. A whole transponder is 20Mhz...if its a HD feed they use the whole TP and usually those frequencies are nice round numbers (12080, 12180, 11800, etc)...I know each TP can be broken up. Last Saturday I saw 3 or 4 sports feeds in a 20mhz TP (12180-12200)

 

[emuman100]

more than one uplinker can use a transponder. A whole transponder is 20Mhz...if its a HD feed they use the whole TP and usually those frequencies are nice round numbers (12080, 12180, 11800, etc)...I know each TP can be broken up. Last Saturday I saw 3 or 4 sports feeds in a 20mhz TP (12180-12200)

I'm guessing this means multiple SCPC feeds per transponder?

What does a hobbyist cable system do? Who does it serve?

It allows me to distrubite all the channels I'm interested in to each TV in my house without the need for a separate satellite receiver. I can watch PBS HD or DW-TV or whatever in the kitchen, living room, and bedroom. The QAM modulators were the most expensive part, but I can pipe the transport stream from any transponder I want to any TV or QAM tuner. Obviously, the encrypted channels won't display, but the rest work perfectly. It's expensive, overbearing, not nessisary, but I love playing with the commercial satellite receivers and QAM modulators, and to me, it's well worth the money.

 

[toucan-man]

Cool.

 

[ifb]

I suppose my question is, if an uplink only pays for 15MHz, does that mean the rest of the bandwidth on the transponder can't be used by another uplink? Or can multiple uplinks share one transponder?

Multiple carriers can go on the same transponder. They can be uplinked on different dishes or combined prior. Multiple carriers raise the noise floor, but this is all considered when determining your link budget. Whether each carrier(s) is an SCPC or MCPC is a separate issue from how many there are on a transponder.

An analog carrier uses either the full 36 MHz transponder, or can be limited to only half (upper or lower slot). Of course a full analog transponder looks better (relative to half).

I'm assuming the Sencore IRDs were in use before the implementation of the NGIS then? Because if they were implemented when the NGIS system was first implemented, I'd say their lifespan is really short.

NGIS is still in testing and hasn't been deployed system-wide. The Sencore IRDs have been in use since PBS moved from Digicipher II to DVB (whenever that was - I think there was DVB on AMC-3 before the AMC-21 move).

MPEG-4 isn't an issue if I were to multicast the transport stream via IP, but it's an issue for endpoint consumer devices, like a ATSC/QAM tuner in a TV or a TiVo, which probably won't even recognize an MPEG-4 transport stream, let alone decode the video and audio. This means I'll need to get equipment for transcoding, which won't be less than $1500.

<nitpick>There's no such thing as an MPEG-4 transport stream. MPEG-4 AVC (aka H.264, aka MPEG-4 Part 10) video is still carried within an MPEG-2 transport stream.</nitpick>

more than one uplinker can use a transponder. A whole transponder is 20Mhz...if its a HD feed they use the whole TP and usually those frequencies are nice round numbers (12080, 12180, 11800, etc)...I know each TP can be broken up. Last Saturday I saw 3 or 4 sports feeds in a 20mhz TP (12180-12200)

A Ku FSS transponder is (always?) 36 MHz wide. C band as well. I think Ka and Ku DBS use different sizes.

 

[emuman100]

Multiple carriers can go on the same transponder. They can be uplinked on different dishes or combined prior. Multiple carriers raise the noise floor, but this is all considered when determining your link budget. Whether each carrier(s) is an SCPC or MCPC is a separate issue from how many there are on a transponder.

An analog carrier uses either the full 36 MHz transponder, or can be limited to only half (upper or lower slot). Of course a full analog transponder looks better (relative to half).

That explains it quite a bit.

NGIS is still in testing and hasn't been deployed system-wide. The Sencore IRDs have been in use since PBS moved from Digicipher II to DVB (whenever that was - I think there was DVB on AMC-3 before the AMC-21 move).

I think they moved to DVB a little bit before they had a nationwide HD feed, which I think had a virtual channel of 80 or something.

<nitpick>There's no such thing as an MPEG-4 transport stream. MPEG-4 AVC (aka H.264, aka MPEG-4 Part 10) video is still carried within an MPEG-2 transport stream.</nitpick>

Very true.

 

[whatchel1]

NGIS is still in testing and hasn't been deployed system-wide. The Sencore IRDs have been in use since PBS moved from Digicipher II to DVB (whenever that was - I think there was DVB on AMC-3 before the AMC-21 move).

The 1st one I saw & helped the CE at school install was something like 7 or 8 yrs ago.

 

[Mr Tony]

is LPB showing lower signal tonight?

Use to have it between 65-73 and now its hovering in the 45-50 range here in MN. (on the 87W sat)

 

[Keith Brannen]

is LPB showing lower signal tonight?

Use to have it between 65-73 and now its hovering in the 45-50 range here in MN. (on the 87W sat)

Lower for me, as well. Hovering in the 59-63 range on the AZBox and on the 75e. Usually in the 80s (when I had it on the 60e before I switched it to the 75e I had it in the 59-63 range, hate to imagine what it would be if I still had it there!)

 

[toucan-man]

87 - 89 here on a Coolsat 8000 and 84e.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Openbox S10

LPB - SI=88%, SQ=70% but fluctuating.

 

[Mr Tony]

back to a solid 70-71 now

must have just been a glitch

 

[Keith Brannen]

back to a solid 70-71 now

must have just been a glitch

Hopefully, it doesn't mean that the night-time variations that were experienced on 125 are now going to be on 87! Mine is up to 75 again (though I thought I got it higher than that before, but could be wrong, don't have anything written down about it).

 

[Andrew K]

I have the Openbox S10, a 76 cm dish, and the Invacom SNH-031 LNB, but I cannot pick up the LPB channel on 87W. I can't figure out what my problem is. I live in Ohio, and I doubt the signal is that low. It's not showing any signal when I do a manual scan of that transponder. I already get the Florida Channel, which is DVB-S2, but I don't get LPB. I would really like to get this. Any suggestions at what may be my problem?

 

[Mr Tony]

I use a 76cm dish and it works fine here in MN..using a Manhattan receiver and it scans in just fine