2023 NASCAR

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Nice wikipedia article. That doesn't list any actual major accidents caused by racing back to the caution.
yeah it does. You just didn't read it (or want to admit it)
Hint: Because they never happened. Ultra-safe.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6DLvpHxxo

and the reason for dropping the race back (as I mentioned previously)
But you'll just say "well they didnt hit him so its still ultra safe" :rolleyes:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG32BZPebY8
 
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Nice wikipedia article. That doesn't list any actual major accidents caused by racing back to the caution.

Hint: Because they never happened. Ultra-safe.
Ultra-safe?

I'll take risk mitigation fails for $1200 Mayim.
 
yeah it does. You just didn't read it (or want to admit it)
Video one. Is of a crash AFTER the field fell behind the pace car, and has nothing to do with racing back to the caution. Emergency personnel are never on the track during a race back to the caution.

Video two. NOTHING happened. As I pointed out above, this is the off-cited "almost". Well I almost won the lottery. Just didn't have the right numbers.

Again, no article, no videos.

Because it never happened.

BTW, the ratings are in. Another 15% walked away last year to this. The sport is in serious trouble.
 
Chase Elliott Out Indefinitely

 
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Nascar really sucks now ...
First time I've had a race on in a long time ... I'm doing other things while its on, I hear, coming back for the last 2 laps, so I'm paying attention .... till I see it say Stage 2.
 
NASCAR is in REAL trouble. The TV deal is up, and, more importantly, the car owners are saying that they cannot make it on the share of the current TV money NASCAR gives them. Sponsorships are drying up, and more and more people simply walk away from the sport. When the next TV deal puts the majority of the races on some internet obscurity, yet less sponsorship money is going to come in. NASCAR either has to cut its own profits and support the car owners, or admit it was wrong and fix the self-inflicted wounds it made to the sport.
 
F1 and Indycar aren't in their golden eras either, but they've been at least making the sport a bit better, especially Indycar. NASCAR is functionally obsolete because they can't race on their courses at full speed without greatly risking the lives of their drivers (or the courses are too short). This has created a bizarre bumper car like racing circuit that can't finish races without accidents. NASCAR tried some gimmicks which were quite ridiculous, but ultimately, the poor gimmicks were trying to fix the bigger problem. Oh yeah, oval and tri-oval racing every week is tiresome.

Then add to that the fan base that doesn't want to broaden (NASCAR wants more fans, more money), and that creates an unusual feedback loop that harms the sport.

And now drivers are upset about Chase Elliot and NASCAR trying to make people care about races.
 
F1 and Indycar aren't in their golden eras either, but they've been at least making the sport a bit better, especially Indycar.

F1 ebbs and flows across time in the USA. Right now it is up, but "up" is still niche ratings against other things on Sunday mornings, when the Euro races are run, or in the middle of the night when the Asia-Pacific ones are. IndyCar is doing OK by modern standards, but its a once a year deal for most people. It is a spec series.
NASCAR is functionally obsolete because they can't race on their courses at full speed without greatly risking the lives of their drivers (or the courses are too short). This has created a bizarre bumper car like racing circuit that can't finish races without accidents. NASCAR tried some gimmicks which were quite ridiculous, but ultimately, the poor gimmicks were trying to fix the bigger problem. Oh yeah, oval and tri-oval racing every week is tiresome.

Well, no. The reason the ends of races take so long is nothing to do with the cars being "functionally obsolete". The current cars have a HP limit that, while it stifles innovation, keeps the cars able to run on the tracks as they exist.

The problem is the lack of racing back to the caution. The gimmick replacement for this, is repeated G-W-C attempts at a finish, with the drivers driving like idiots, because they will just force a do-over if they cause a wreck. Racing back to the caution solves all of this. See the 1976 Daytona 500 for example. Or 1979. Many examples.

And NASCAR ran more ovals and tri-ovals back when it was 10 times more popular than today. It isn't the tracks, it is the rules package.
Then add to that the fan base that doesn't want to broaden (NASCAR wants more fans, more money), and that creates an unusual feedback loop that harms the sport.
How is that working out? Yes NASCAR did everything but put up signs reading "Your kind not welcome" towards it traditional fan base. And picked up, well, nobody else.
 
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Well, no. The reason the ends of races take so long is nothing to do with the cars being "functionally obsolete". The current cars have a HP limit that, while it stifles innovation, keeps the cars able to run on the tracks as they exist.
Answer this... why doesn't Indycar race at Daytona? That is why there are the HP limits on NASCAR now. There are limits. When AJ Foyt says 'no way!' you know there are issues.
The problem is the lack of racing back to the caution. The gimmick replacement for this, is repeated G-W-C attempts at a finish, with the drivers driving like idiots, because they will just force a do-over if they cause a wreck. Racing back to the caution solves all of this. See the 1976 Daytona 500 for example. Or 1979. Many examples.
You know the best part of about the Indycar Texas race was how the racing was so tight, so close... and there was no need to race to the checker as half the field crashed out behind them. It was racing first, not bumper car.
And NASCAR ran more ovals and tri-ovals back when it was 10 times more popular than today.
But it isn't the 1990s anymore. There are more options to watch than stock cars running in ovals/triovals. It is what makes Indy interesting though, because the low-banked curves and the squared oval make things different. Of course, assuming the tires aren't shredding to pieces because of the pavement.
It isn't the tracks, it is the rules package.
It is all of it. e.
 
Answer this... why doesn't Indycar race at Daytona?
Because IndyCar cars would go too fast. This has NOTHING to do with NASCAR cars being "functionally obsolete".
You know the best part of about the Indycar Texas race was how the racing was so tight, so close... and there was no need to race to the checker as half the field crashed out behind them. It was racing first, not bumper car.
Because IndyCar doesn't have the G-W-C gimmick, because racing back to the caution has never been a part of American Open Wheel Championship racing. Unlike NASCAR, where it was the essence of what American stock car racing is all about.

Without the G-W-C gimmick, drivers have to at least drive with some sanity. That is open wheel. Stock cars need to race back to the caution.

This was awesome:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AibV8_0USBA

Listening to the announcer go "umm, umm, umm, it looks like the 7, umm, umm, umm, yes the 7, is the 'lucky dog', and, umm, umm, umm, we will be back for the 6th try at a G-W-C finish, after these messages", isn't.

It doesn't work.
But it isn't the 1990s anymore.
That is the lead excuse that all of the France family's enablers use. Pretty much "it was a fad". Nope. While, yes, there are more choices today, and thus the audience (for anything) is going to be less (unless its spelled NFL) every sport, sans the new sport of MMA, is about where it was relative to all the others, in 1995, or 2005, or 2015. ONE exception. ONE sport has declined relative to all the others. ONE has driven off two of three people who formerly watched it closely. NASCAR. This sport is in trouble. Mainly because the Frances will not admit their mistakes.
 
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Because IndyCar cars would go too fast. This has NOTHING to do with NASCAR cars being "functionally obsolete".

Because IndyCar doesn't have the G-W-C gimmick, because racing back to the caution has never been a part of American Open Wheel Championship racing. Unlike NASCAR, where it was the essence of what American stock car racing is all about.

Without the G-W-C gimmick, drivers have to at least drive with some sanity. That is open wheel. Stock cars need to race back to the caution.

This was awesome:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AibV8_0USBA

Listening to the announcer go "umm, umm, umm, it looks like the 7, umm, umm, umm, yes the 7, is the 'lucky dog', and, umm, umm, umm, we will be back for the 6th try at a G-W-C finish, after these messages", isn't.

It doesn't work.

That is the lead excuse that all of the France family's enablers use. Pretty much "it was a fad". Nope. While, yes, there are more choices today, and thus the audience (for anything) is going to be less (unless its spelled NFL) every sport, sans the new sport of MMA, is about where it was relative to all the others, in 1995, or 2005, or 2015. ONE exception. ONE sport has declined relative to all the others. ONE has driven off two of three people who formerly watched it closely. NASCAR. This sport is in trouble. Mainly because the Frances will not admit their mistakes.

The Frances have not All by themselves, but are a Major reason why Nascar is dying.

A few things that would help, get them back in the right direction ....

Get rid of, as mentioned the G-W-C and Race back to the line, like it was always suppose to be.
Next, get rid of the STUPID STAGE Racing ... dumbest thing ever.
Lets have Mini races inside the Race and award people 3 or 4 times a day ... The Stage racing makes the overall winner, less ...

In a few years, we wont see Nascar racing every week anymore ...

Up until 1990 area, you didn't hear much about Nascar unless it was the Daytona 500 .... TV coverage picked up, you had Great drivers ....
When I tune into a race now, I see a few stars and a bunch of people that didn't amount to much in earlier years and the rest are people I have never heard of.
 
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And SBJ (paywalled, as always) reports that Fox and NBC allowed their exclusive negotiation period to expire on May 1. NASCAR is now floating what YouTube commentator David Land is calling "The Summer of Streaming" with a 6 to 8 race package of supposedly "dead time" races from late June to late August on streaming, mostly likely Amazon.

This is, like most things the Frances do, stupid. The dead time for NASCAR, like any sport that tries to go against the NFL, is against the NFL. The idiotic chase "playoffs" were supposed to solve this, and failed totally, destroying both the "regular season" (just win a race and you are in, phone in the rest of the year) and the idiotic "playoffs" (the result is totally random and not reflective of who had the best year). And, obviously, the remnant NASCAR demographic is probably the people most likely to not stream things. Abolish the idiotic chase and play out the fall string on the internet. The summer was, back when every race mattered, the heart of the season, not "dead time".

So it looks like Fox (mostly FS1) for maybe 14 races then 8 races on maybe Amazon then 14 on NBC (mostly USA and Peacock). All for a much lower fee than now. This sport is in real trouble.
 
Because IndyCar cars would go too fast. This has NOTHING to do with NASCAR cars being "functionally obsolete".
Or in light of that, they'd need to restrict the engines... making the race utterly stupid (which is what I mean by obsolete). Which is what NASCAR has been for a while. When cars can't be competitive, it gets real stupid, race car driving wise of course. I realize many NASCAR fans aren't race car fans.
Because IndyCar doesn't have the G-W-C gimmick, because racing back to the caution has never been a part of American Open Wheel Championship racing. Unlike NASCAR, where it was the essence of what American stock car racing is all about.
What? I thought the essence of NASCAR was about driving modified vehicles real fast around a track, which used to be real cool. It was loud and exciting. These days, they aren't "stock" cars. And the differences between the cars are too small... relative to the size of the car, which leads to so many ridiculous crashes, because cars need to drive so close to the car in front of them, they can scratch the nose of the driver two cars up!
Without the G-W-C gimmick, drivers have to at least drive with some sanity. That is open wheel. Stock cars need to race back to the caution.
Stock cars should be able to race without crashing repeatedly at the end of races.
This was awesome:
Indycar finished under Yellow at Texas, and that race had segments that consisted of intense racing, close passing... and most of all... competent driving.
 
Probable NASCAR TV deal.

(Unsponsored, because no one will pay for it) Cup Series, Fox/FS1 early; 6-8 races in July/August on Amazon; late on NBC/USA/Peacock, probably 40-50% only Peacock.

Xfinity Series. Peacock, 1 or 2 races simulcast on NBC, 3 or 4 simulcasts on USA.

NASCAR is privately saying that the summer package is the "dead" time, and the networks are passing. Of course, summer used to be the heart of NASCAR's season. Warm, kids out of school, no major sport playing besides baseball, etc. This "dead" time is a function of the idiotic points system. All a driver has to do is win one race, which by mid-summer anyone with ability has done, and wait for the random result playoffs to begin. Previously, EVERY race mattered. Another bad idea the Frances refuse to abandon.
 
Well, there is Daytona, maybe Talladega... if it would ever finish clean. What other races are "marquee"?
None of them, any more. Another function of the idiotic "playoffs". Before the idiocy that is the "playoffs", NASCAR has multiple measures of having a good year. The Winston Cup was certainly one, but also the most wins, and wins in the historic and/or important races, like Daytona, Talladega, Indy, Bristol night, Southern 500 at Darlington, Coca-Cola World 600 at Charlotte.

Now, with the idiotic "playoffs" who wins the race, any race, is irrelevant. Just win one (easy to do) coast for the rest of the year and make the "playoffs" where the result will be 100% random and in no way indicative of who had the best year. And, from the first lap of Daytona, ALL the commentators will talk about is making this idiocy. Who wins is of no consequence, and thus there is no real difference between the Southern 500 and some random road course in Wisconsin.