A criminal tells me about "FTA"

[rjc3895]

I work for a non-profit agency. We often get people who are court ordered to complete community service hours as part of their sentencing.

Today I was telling my boss about my new Visionast 200 PVR and how it allows me to record and pause live TV. Well this guys begins to tell me about his "friend" whose dad bought a box from Ebay that allows them to watch all Dish Network channels for FREE!

I looked at him and said what they are doing is stealing. This guy didn't see it as stealing. So I said, "Suppose you had a key hidden behind your house. You lock all of your doors, and leave. Suppose somebody tells me about the key or better yet, they give me the key. I then go to your house, unlock your door, and eat some of your food, then leave. The next day I return, take a shower in your house, eat some more food, then leave. I return the following day, I see some money on an end table, and I take it. You realize that someone has a key to your house, so you do away with the key and install an electronic keypad locking system. Well, somebody discovers the combination and gives it to me. So I return to your house to eat more of your food. Have I done anything wrong?"

While he called this breaking and entering and theft, he still didn't see anything wrong with stealing Dish channels. I advised him that his friend's piracy days are numbered to which he replied, "They've been doing it for over 8 years."

Why can't Charlie go to the Internet find the names of the illegal BINS, and create a program that fries all FTA boxes with the illegal BIN?

 

[photoman76]

Why can't Charlie go to the Internet find the names of the illegal BINS, and create a program that fries all FTA boxes with the illegal BIN?

Because Charlie is not the Sheriff or the Judge. If he fried FTA boxes, he would be destroying someone else's personal property and he would find himself in jail. It's better to secure his signal properly which he is doing.

 

[updatelee]

Because Charlie is not the Sheriff or the Judge. If he fried FTA boxes, he would be destroying someone else's personal property and he would find himself in jail. It's better to secure his signal properly which he is doing.

dream multimedia, the maker of dreambox's, put in time lapsed code into one of their partner bin's. these detected clone dreambox's and fryed the bootloaders. pansat has done the same thing.

I dont see either of them in jail.

 

[SatPhreak]

Even if dish wanted to do it, a fta box does not update software from the satellite so how could they do it? Dish does do that to OEM boxes that run hackware because they can update from the satellite. Even that is not foolproof because the hackers also know how to stop the OEM receivers from updating the software. The only option dish has available is to swap cards, which they are currently doing.

 

[updatelee]

does dishnetwork not know how to use the internet ? thats how all these other box's get updated. yet still thousands of dreambox's and thousands of pansats got nuked....

dishnetwork has no intrest in securing their network, they take the same mentality as ford.

its cheaper to take the loss's over time, then it would be to fix the problem once and for all.

ford decided it was cheaper to pay the lawsuits for exploding gas tanks then it was to make the tanks stop exploding when impacted.

dishnet has decided along time ago its cheaper to apply bandaids then it is to get the surgery to fix the problem once and for all.

other providers are secure yet they cant figure it out ? they are cheap and lazy.

 

[turbosat]

Seems like they are beginning, saw news on one of the backwoods sites that some of the international channels were switched to the new Nagra3 encryption today , hehe. Maybe it
won't be long now!

 

[pacificfta]

Simply put: stealing is stealing though I'm not sure about the analogy of stealing food and stealing signals. There is much more plausible reason for the first one.

Dish could release a bad file into the wild, but it would only send more people to the pay hack sites to ensure a clean file.

Speaking of hackers...I thought only hackers called DN "Charlie"

I was (proudly) talking to someone a couple weeks ago about my satellite setup and the first thing they said was "nice...did yours go down the other night too?" I then said "No, I mean actual free...not pirate free" They were amazed that there was anything to watch in the clear. Personally, I am hoping that Dish kicks in N3 soon so I can find a cheaper FTA unit

 

[navychop]

I'd gladly pay an extra hundred bucks a year in taxes to have the government shut down these pirates, and other commercial scale pirates.

 

[skewed]

"I am hoping that Dish kicks in N3 soon so I can find a cheaper FTA unit"

I am with you on that one I need a HD/dvb s2 /4:2:2 , LOL mabye I will get a least 2 wishes to come true! The only thing that I am really worried about it that once the hacking is stopped we will not see the manufactures put for the effort to develop new boxes with new features, at least new ones at a good price. Its a sad truth that may of the bennifits that we all enjoy were pushed into the market because of the hackers. I wont go into the long drawn out reason why I think so. Thats why I, like many others here will be will be hitting ebay pretty often from now and for the next few months. When I was told about fta from a friend with a bud I wanted to "one-up him" by getting a better box. I guess its just a man thing. And boy did I make a mistake. I have been testing 2 new boxes that I just picked up1) is a pansat 2500 and the other is a 2300. Just for the record before I write the reviews the 2300 does not do a blind scan, you must enter in the tp's. But guess what. It blows away the viewsat ultra on blind scanning. Thats right ,the ultra CANNOT scan a tp that is not listed and niether can the 2300, but when compared side by side the 2300 will find ONN every time where the viewsat may take a time or 2 to pull it in. Now the 2500 is one bad mamma jamma. I caint wait wait to get my hands on a pansat hd. Come on new encryption, and I hope it works. Pappa needs a new pair of HD'S!

​

 

[rjc3895]

Speaking of hackers...I thought only hackers called DN "Charlie"

Welcome to the forum!
Since you have only been a member since December, you may not have had a lot of time to check out all of the various forums. There's a section for Dish Network fans, and from time to time, staff member Scott Greczkowski will hold a "Charlie Chat" and people frequently use the term Charlie in that forum since that is the name of the co-founder of Echostar Communications Corp (Charles W. Ergen).

I had no idea that Charlie was some kind of secret code word used by hackers.

 

[rjc3895]

I have the same fear. The law of supply and demand will kick in. When the demand goes down, the manufactuers will adjust the supply to meet the demand, and prices for new boxes will either remain the same of perhaps increase.

 

[skewed]

AMEN. To me the only thing that we can hope for is that FTA wil kick off as it has in europe but that is far fetched to believe that. We are continually faced with losing channels not gaining them and I simply do not see a demand for FTA boxes without hacking. Now this is getting back into other subjects but if you INFORM people about what is up there you will get more people involved in what is presently a "hobby" which could turn into a main stream way that people get connected with the world. This new "attention" could make many providers think twice about paying providers such as direct or dish to air there programing. As of now even our local affilates have to pay to have there signal broadcast on those providers. To me if the knew that the same people would watch the on FTA they would save money. The commercials that are on every channel pay for the air time. Then that channel has to pay the provider to put it in service for us. Skip the providers and deliver it straight to us and they will save money. But the sad fact is that many peeps will not disclose the acutal bennifits of FTA as it is now. This will only hurt the numbers of people who are involved in it. Peeps will just pay the 80 bux a month for something that was already payed for by commercials. I can understand that ppv feeds will come to an end if FTa became popular but if it is a ppv isnt its origional intent is to be a ppv in the first place? I can deal with that to make the hobby grow into a way or life and pay for the few ppvs that I find.

 

[Mr Tony]

Just for the record before I write the reviews the 2300 does not do a blind scan, you must enter in the tp's. But guess what. It blows away the viewsat ultra on blind scanning.

If the 2300 doesn't blind scan (its basically the 2500 w/o blind scan) then how can it blow away the ultra on a blind scan???

Now the 2500 is one bad mamma jamma. I caint wait wait to get my hands on a pansat hd.

the 2500 is nice. I have the little brother the 1500 which doesn't have AC-3 or s-video but the blind scan is PAINFULLY slow. If it had an option to select the frequency range it would be better

But the Coolsat 5000 will be fine for now

 

[navychop]

If the 2300 doesn't blind scan (its basically the 2500 w/o blind scan) then how can it blow away the ultra on a blind scan???

Thank you, I was wondering about that.

 

[skewed]

With the pansat 2300 you have to enter in the transponders, from there it will seach what you have entered, You MUST enter in the transponders, The viewsat is the same way if your sat file does not have the correct transponers it WILL NOT find them even with a blind scan. With a view sat you must have a .sat file loaded with the trasponders to find a channel. This is what the 2300 also requires. When I say it blows it away I have tested it with ONN on H2 because I know my VS has problems with it. The 2300 picks it up every time with a "channel scan" where the VS sometimes cannot find it with a Blind scan. 2 out of 3 times it misses. The 2500 can be set to factory default and the newest factory file loaded with nothing else and when you choose "blind scan" it will first load the tp's that it finds then scan the channels. This does take some time but it is badd a$$. There is no need for a .sat file. The VS does not have a true blind scan. I dont care what you call it when you select it but if you do not have the transponders loaded it will not scan them. This is how it blows it away, VS claims to have a blind scan but it just changes the fec that are in the sat file. If you do not have the correct TP's it WILL NOT FIND THEM. I am working on a channel master channel list that up until now I thought was accurate but seeing the 2500 in action I am starting to doubt weather that the VS was completely accurate, Once I have it completed with the pansat results I will post it here for help in fine tuning it for all boxes. Some may or may not like this idea as there are no complete channel lists avilable for KU much less c band but I feel like others can help with my project and together we can make it better.

 

[mbarnes]

I had no idea that Charlie was some kind of secret code word used by hackers.

Actually the term "Charlie" or more often "Uncle Charlie" has been used for many years (long before DBS) to refer to the FCC. But quite often terms get changed around to different meanings. For instance, consider the word "hacker". Used in its proper definition, I am quite proud of my accomplishments as a hacker. The actual definition of a hacker is one who takes something and 'hacks' it to make it more useful or add features. (Just check out Amazon or B&N for scads of books on hacking.) While used long ago in electronics and mechanics in hacking an item to make it useful for their purposes. Like turning a microwave oven into a communications device, or a car into a dune buggy. Today, it more often represents software hacks and the ability is a good sign of accomplishment. Unfortunately, the uneducated have misused the term so much that the non-technical public believe it is a bad thing. None of this hacking was ever intended for illegal activities. The proper term to use is really "cracker" from when there were "safe crackers" who gained illegal entry by cracking the safe combination. As networking and wireless services grew and the selfish didn't want to pay, like the safe cracker, they cracked the system to gain illegal access to goods and/or services.

So, Charlie can refer either to the FCC (which IS the Sheriff and Judge) or to Charlie Ergen.
And hackers are really the good guys while crackers are the bad boys.

 

[Mr Tony]

With the pansat 2300 you have to enter in the transponders, from there it will seach what you have entered, You MUST enter in the transponders,

then its not a blind scan. Thats a transponder scan. Big difference

The viewsat is the same way if your sat file does not have the correct transponers it WILL NOT find them even with a blind scan. With a view sat you must have a .sat file loaded with the trasponders to find a channel. This is what the 2300 also requires. When I say it blows it away I have tested it with ONN on H2 because I know my VS has problems with it. The 2300 picks it up every time with a "channel scan" where the VS sometimes cannot find it with a Blind scan. 2 out of 3 times it misses.

you are still comparing apples to oranges here. Since the 2300 doesnt have blind scan how can you compare the "blind scan" pickups? I had the original Viewsat and it "claimed" blind scan but didn't blind scan at all. I know the newer models have a blind scan but does it miss stuff? I assume so from what I have heard

The 2500 can be set to factory default and the newest factory file loaded with nothing else and when you choose "blind scan" it will first load the tp's that it finds then scan the channels. This does take some time but it is badd a$$.

exactly. That is how a blind scan usually works. Some like the Coolsats will do it at once (find the TP then scan it) but the Pansats/Fortecs do it in a 2 stage step which can be good as you can write down the TP's as they are picked up and load them into a non-blind scan receiver

The VS does not have a true blind scan. I dont care what you call it when you select it but if you do not have the transponders loaded it will not scan them.

depends on the model. I thought some had a decent blind scan in them.

as there are no complete channel lists avilable for KU much less c band

I think the C-Band list would be more complete but on KU honestly there is no such thing as a complete list. With the myriad of symbol rates that various companies use you can never be too accurate. The main TP's can have a variety of frequencies/symbol rates so it would not be accurate. Thats why a blind scan receiver is a must for finding the new and interesting stuff up there

 

[turbosat]

My VS Ultra (original, not the version 2) DOES have blind scan, and though its not the most sensitive around, it finds most transponders and channels. I've used it since they came out, and
I can attest the fact that it works. My biggest complaint is that it does not seem to "find" transponders that have a low Symbol rate, seems like anything under 3978 >it misses. IF you enter the info manually, and scan the TP it will find that channel. The shopping channel on AMC6 ku seems to be about its bottom end limit though (11890 SR 1662) it will break up on that one. I have deleted all the TPs from satellites and blind-scan, it finds and replaces the tps it finds-within the above mentioned limits. Mines skips ONN also, if you scan in steps of 5 or 9 it usually finds it, but scan in steps of 6 or 8 and it seems to miss it - just a quirk with the VS software I guess.
Not the best in the field, but all around very good box with good menus and features. The traxis3500 blows IT away in terms of sensitivity and speed though. The newest one I have, Icon S550 pretty much wipes my Traxis3500, speedwise and sensitivity.And IT won't hang up on HD feeds when it blind scans.

 

[skewed]

Well the VS ultra does not have a true blind scan, it calls it a blind scan but if you do not enter in the TP's then it will not scan them, period. I have seen this with white springs. The 2300 is the same, but if you choose "auto" in channel master for the fec's and the polarity and load it into the box it will do the same thing as the VS, Viewsat no tps=no channels, 2300 no tp's =no channels. Try to do a blind scan with a VS with no TP loaded, you wont get very far. This is apples to apples. But a 2500 will scan anything with only the factory bin. And by the way the 2300 does support USALS, you may want to add that to your memory bank also.

 

[Mr Tony]

I have seen this with white springs.

white springs is probably not the best example as most receivers miss it

The 2300 is the same, but if you choose "auto" in channel master for the fec's and the polarity and load it into the box it will do the same thing as the VS, Viewsat no tps=no channels, 2300 no tp's =no channels. Try to do a blind scan with a VS with no TP loaded, you wont get very far. This is apples to apples.

please help me understand how a receiver that doesnt have blind scan versus one that does is apples to apples? Unless you load the tranponders into the 2300 it wont get anything. Same as my Pansat 2100, Captiveworks 600, Viacast DSR-1500, Scientific Atlanta Powervu D-9234, Coolsat 8000 and Quali-TV. They all need a manual transponder entry to pick up anything.

But a 2500 will scan anything with only the factory bin.

yes it will. As should any true blind scan receiver.

And by the way the 2300 does support USALS, you may want to add that to your memory bank also.

ok.