"Amp"... me up !

[camford]

Thanks for the warm welcome ! NEW to FTA ,Still setting up,.. and my first day here.
I especially like the fact that you’re not made fun of ; or feel stupid,..for asking questions !!!
I’m a newbie,.. So here goes. I’m not sure,..WHERE OR,…if . I can put an inline signal amplifier.
I have a 30’ dish, with a qph-031 LNB,.. Diseqc 4x1 switch,.. and a SG6000 HH motor . With a Maximum allowable cable length of 75 Feet
And still have enough voltage from the receiver to make the motor run !! HERE ,..is my question. “Do I put the inline amp “AFTER” the Diseqc,
and “BEFORE” the motor ? OR after the motor , some where before the set top box ?
ALSO just for fun ,.. MY Direct tv is 5 years old ,.. CAN I put an in line amp in that cable as well,… or will it interfere with the built in switching
22 Khz tone between the 3 LNB’s ?
THANKS JJ

 

[SatelliteAV]

Welcome to SatelliteGuys!

Inline amps should only be used to overcome EXTREMELY long cable runs (200 feet or greater). Inline amps will actually decrease the signal quality in shorter cable runs!

If an inline amp is installed, it would funion best if inserted between the motor and the DiSEqC switch. Inline amps do not usually interfere with 22KHz / DiSEqC control or voltages.

If you are concerned about signal loss invest in:

• Larger reflector with higher gain and efficiency
• Higher grade of coax (Quad Shield RG6 or RG11
• Bypass the motor pass through using a high quality 2x1 two port power passing 2.3GHz rated splitter with one leg feeding the motor and the other the switches and LNBFs

 

[FTABman0]

Thanks for the warm welcome ! NEW to FTA ,Still setting up,.. and my first day here.
I especially like the fact that you’re not made fun of ; or feel stupid,..for asking questions !!!

Camford, To The Satellite Guys!

You are in the right place for everything satellite!!
No question here is crazy or stupid to us! Most certainly, we will never make fun of you! We will help you the best we can with helpful and informative answers without the jokery!

Inline amps a big no no with FTA KU Or C-Band, hurts your signal not help it. On another note I have successfully ran over 275 feet of RG6 with no issues! Longer runs I would recommend RG11 cable.

See, that did not hurt at all!

Enjoy your say here at the Sat guys! Look around, read and soak in all this glorious information!

You’re Family!!

All of guys here were NEW once also!!

No question is stupid or dumb!

K E V I N

 

[Mr Tony]

No question is stupid or dumb!

well...there is one

 

[FTABman0]

well...there is one

Gotcha! I Know What That Is!

K E V I N

 

[Anole]

And as if you didn't have enough experts already tell you, let me phrase it differently...

Where can you stick your in-line amplifier...?
You can stick it on the shelf! -

Yes, we do have some good chuckles, but not generally at anyone's expense.
Of course you could be the first exception....
Naw, Iceberg keeps us in line.

Welcome aboard. Plenty to learn here.
Lot of it just rubs off the longer you hang around. - :up

 

[Cadsulfide]

Read everything you can, especially the posts on cable runs, connectors, switches, lnb's, dishes, and recievers. With a litle time and patience, you can assemble a really killer system.

Anole is spot on about amps, and most folks can go 150'+ with no trouble at all.

 

[camford]

THANKS !!! everybody is GREAT !! Now, time to read up first,.. Then ask a question !!
I hope you'll all have a GOOD DAY!! THANKS AGAIN!

 

[bassist]

to revive a old question!!

Welcome to SatelliteGuys!

Inline amps should only be used to overcome EXTREMELY long cable runs (200 feet or greater). Inline amps will actually decrease the signal quality in shorter cable runs!

If an inline amp is installed, it would funion best if inserted between the motor and the DiSEqC switch. Inline amps do not usually interfere with 22KHz / DiSEqC control or voltages.

If you are concerned about signal loss invest in:

• Larger reflector with higher gain and efficiency
• Higher grade of coax (Quad Shield RG6 or RG11
• Bypass the motor pass through using a high quality 2x1 two port power passing 2.3GHz rated splitter with one leg feeding the motor and the other the switches and LNBFs

Does it matter if both output ports pass DC?

Or should a non-DC passing port be used going to the 4x1 switch that controls the lnbs?

 

[crackt]

Does it matter if both output ports pass DC?

Or should a non-DC passing port be used going to the 4x1 switch that controls the lnbs?

two port power passing NON diode steered splitter. if the non power passing port went to the lnbs they would not have power.

crackt out,.

 

[bassist]

Thanks for the reply, crackt.

Now two more Q's arrise:

a) How can one tell whether the splitter does not use diodes without cracking them open?

b) Where can I buy the proper splitter? And which model IS the proper one?

 

[crackt]

Thanks for the reply, crackt.

Now two more Q's arrise:

a) How can one tell whether the splitter does not use diodes without cracking them open?

b) Where can I buy the proper splitter? And which model IS the proper one?

here is where you can buy them.

Diplexers, Inline Amplifier, Splitters for satellite and CATV satellite

find a model and google it to find the answer to diode steered or email sodoun. i bought some of the power vision ones and they cant be used in reverse. they can only work when used for one lnb output to 2 recievers. some splitters allow voltage both ways and some only allow it in one directionl.

crackt out,.

 

[Anole]

...and here with an opposing view:

The few times I've tried amps, I think they were saturated by in-band signals, and didn't do squat for me.
However, there are other times when they might be useful.
I bring your attention to these two threads:

Bandstacked Shootout or Why Amps Are Good and Bad

Saturating an amplifier demo

 

[bassist]

here is where you can buy them.

Diplexers, Inline Amplifier, Splitters for satellite and CATV satellite

find a model and google it to find the answer to diode steered or email sodoun. i bought some of the power vision ones and they cant be used in reverse. they can only work when used for one lnb output to 2 recievers. some splitters allow voltage both ways and some only allow it in one directionl.

crackt out,.

Let me make this easier on myself:

Do I want a 2-way splitter with DC pass on one port?

(Do I want sadoun's

Do I want a 2-way splitter with DC pass on both ports?

or
Do I want a 2-way splitter with "power pass" on all ports? (GE Ultra Pro. It mentions nothing about DC pass.)

After googling for 30-40 minutes or so, nothing is mentioned about diodes for any model sold by sadoun or av.

Do I need sadoun's 8231 D or Sadoun's 8231 A?

 

[crackt]

Let me make this easier on myself:

Do I want a 2-way splitter with DC pass on one port?

(Do I want sadoun's

Do I want a 2-way splitter with DC pass on both ports?

or
Do I want a 2-way splitter with "power pass" on all ports? (GE Ultra Pro. It mentions nothing about DC pass.)

After googling for 30-40 minutes or so, nothing is mentioned about diodes for any model sold by sadoun or av.

Do I need sadoun's 8231 D or Sadoun's 8231 A?

how many db are you after ? what dish are you using and why do you want to split before the hh your using ?

crackt out,.

 

[bassist]

good q's crackt!

Reason for trying this:

I moved my motorized 30" fortec with a Satracker II lnb to an area clear of trees. The only problem with the move is that this location is 70' or so from my bud which has a ws 241 lnb on it.

My ancient CS4000 switched between the two without fail when the two were pretty close to the switch. (The switch's brand escapes me. It it's a 4x1 with all the ports facing down in a blue hard plastic case with a white slide-down cover.)

Anyway if I place the switch close to the KU and run 70' of cable back to the BUD, the switch works BUT, not all of the Cband TP's lock on.

I have the switch installed between the lnb & the motor. And that's the way it was before the move.

KU->port 2 Cband ->port 3 switch output->lnb post on motor

rcvr post-> grd block-> cable to the house (Cband TPs' motor settings are off as the BUD is moved by a stand-alone positioner.)

 

[AcWxRadar]

Bassist,

I am not a fan of any splitters and especially not amplifiers.

An amplifier will "amplify" not only the signal, but the noise as well.

If you have a low SNR, an amplifier will not improve this as both the noise and the signal will be equally amplified, which gains you nothing. In cases such as this, you should investigate the alignment of the dish and LNBF, the dish size and the specifications of the LNBF itself. Improving the accuracy and efficiency directly at the dish is the ultimate goal.

If you have a long cable run, and you are losing signal due to line losses, an amplifier can assist somewhat, but I think it is a much better approach to utilize a better cable. i.e. Use RG11 cable and fewer connections enroute to the house from the dish.

For my own satellite system, I tried to keep my dish array close to the house, but that proved to cause problems with my LOS to the entire satellite arc. I could not get an appropriate LOS to the satellites eastward of 50°W due to trees that blocked the signal from sats such as Hispasat @ 30.0°W for instance (I am at ~96°W). The best location for a clear LOS to the entire arc was about 300 feet away from the house. RG6 QUAD Shield cable was insufficient for this distance, so I upgraded to RG11. It works great! I have sufficient signal level and quality and I have sufficient power to operate my DG-380 motor over this distance.

I have ~280 feet of RG11 cable to run from the dish to the house and roughly 50 feet of RG6 cable to actually get into and route through the house to my receiver. I don't use an amplifier of any sort with this setup and it works just beautifully!

Since I can manage motor, LNBF and switch control and have way plenty of buffer room for signal level and quality with this distance of cable, I have never even pondered a signal amplifier. In my honest opinion, amplifiers are a waste of money. Invest in good cable, LNBFs and a quality dish and be done with it.

You probably already have your dish and LNBF and cable installed and just want to "increase" the signal with what you have. I don't know how pleased you will be with a signal amplifier of any type. It may prove to only gain you a slight improvement. No harm in trying one, but don't be disappointed if it doesn't make a really substantial difference.

I do wish you good luck and please respond if you find it substantially worthwhile.

RADAR

 

[treetopflyer]

Bassist,

I am not a fan of any splitters and especially not amplifiers.

An amplifier will "amplify" not only the signal, but the noise as well.

If you have a low SNR, an amplifier will not improve this as both the noise and the signal will be equally amplified, which gains you nothing. In cases such as this, you should investigate the alignment of the dish and LNBF, the dish size and the specifications of the LNBF itself. Improving the accuracy and efficiency directly at the dish is the ultimate goal.

If you have a long cable run, and you are losing signal due to line losses, an amplifier can assist somewhat, but I think it is a much better approach to utilize a better cable. i.e. Use RG11 cable and fewer connections enroute to the house from the dish.

For my own satellite system, I tried to keep my dish array close to the house, but that proved to cause problems with my LOS to the entire satellite arc. I could not get an appropriate LOS to the satellites eastward of 50°W due to trees that blocked the signal from sats such as Hispasat @ 30.0°W for instance (I am at ~96°W). The best location for a clear LOS to the entire arc was about 300 feet away from the house. RG6 QUAD Shield cable was insufficient for this distance, so I upgraded to RG11. It works great! I have sufficient signal level and quality and I have sufficient power to operate my DG-380 motor over this distance.

I have ~280 feet of RG11 cable to run from the dish to the house and roughly 50 feet of RG6 cable to actually get into and route through the house to my receiver. I don't use an amplifier of any sort with this setup and it works just beautifully!

Since I can manage motor, LNBF and switch control and have way plenty of buffer room for signal level and quality with this distance of cable, I have never even pondered a signal amplifier. In my honest opinion, amplifiers are a waste of money. Invest in good cable, LNBFs and a quality dish and be done with it.

You probably already have your dish and LNBF and cable installed and just want to "increase" the signal with what you have. I don't know how pleased you will be with a signal amplifier of any type. It may prove to only gain you a slight improvement. No harm in trying one, but don't be disappointed if it doesn't make a really substantial difference.

I do wish you good luck and please respond if you find it substantially worthwhile.

RADAR

I have run 2 20db in line amplifiers quite comfortably with a 20 Ft run. Picture quality increased as well as signal. Cheap cable is why long runs of 200Ft don't require an amplifier. The opposite is better. I know a guy who has 3 in-line amplifiers on a 10 Ft run with great results.

 

[pendragon]

It always puzzles me why amplifiers have such a bad reputation here. When properly used they can improve performance even on relatively short cable runs. However it is true when improperly used they can cause problems that can be very difficult to isolate.

It also puzzles me why RG-11 is often elevated to demigod status. Yes, it is better than RG-6, but not by much. There are different specs published, but the following is probably in the ballpark (see bottom of the link's webpage):

Coax Cable Frequency Loss, DC Resistance, Flooded, Plenum RG-6, RG-11

At 1 GHz RG-6 has a loss of 6.5 dB/100' while RG-11 has a loss of 5 dB/100'. At 2.25 GHz, the numbers are 10 and 8 dB/100' respectively. This means I can lay 130' of RG-11 and get about the same performance as 100' of RG-6. For me this is a ho-hum improvement.

On the other hand with a decent amplifier I can lay 300' of RG-6 and get about the same performance as 100' of RG-6 without. In most cases an amplifier will cost less than the additional cost of RG-11 over RG-6. This is not a ho-hum improvement in my book.

There are other benefits to using amplifiers, particularly when using switching networks and even low output LNBs. Amplifiers cannot improve the CNR of a signal as it comes out of the LNB, but they can prevent the CNR from deteriorating in the path to the receiver. To dismiss them out-of-hand is rather sad.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I have run 2 20db in line amplifiers quite comfortably with a 20 Ft run. Picture quality increased as well as signal. Cheap cable is why long runs of 200Ft don't require an amplifier. The opposite is better. I know a guy who has 3 in-line amplifiers on a 10 Ft run with great results.

TreeTop,

I am not sure I even want you to explain that one! Why anyone would want or need to put an amplifier every three feet in a ten foot run, is way beyond my scope! Surely you are either pulling my leg, or you made a typo???



RADAR