AT&T Just Donated $500,000 to Locast

[Juan]

It would violate the LOCAST license

Again... How is it different than programming in the OTA locals that they're also not paying for? The sat and cable folks pay retransmission fees under STELAR, not copyright fees, to retransmit the programming via their sat or wired services. With direct OTA or Locast OTA, the sat folks are not retransmitting anything, just providing a means of directly receiving the OTA programming the same as TV sets and other streaming devices do. There's no copyright violation in that any more than there is for you to receive programming from a rooftop antenna direct to your TV.

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[NYDutch]

It would violate the LOCAST license

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Not if Locast gave their permission... And Locast's David Goodfriend has said, "We want Locast available to everyone, everywhere, on any app platform".

Locast's Scorecard: 250,000+ People Registered, 0 Lawsuits | Light Reading

 

[slice1900]

I am saying if Dish or anybody else reverse engineered locast apps and presented the streams as part of a product of dish network they would face a multbillion lawsuit for copyright infringement

Locast is a non-profit, they can't sue anyone for billions over something they give away for free. They'd lose their non-profit status since they can't usefully spend even 1% of such an amount. Plus they don't own the copyright for the content, the only thing they own the copyright for is their app software. If you follow so-called "clean room" techniques in reverse engineering software, you are not liable for copyright infringement. Directv/Dish can look at the network traffic, write their own software to generate the same network traffic, and they are lawsuit proof.

Again though, it makes no sense for Locast to sue ANYONE doing this. They want people to use their service. They give it away for free, so they can't demonstrate ANY "loss" from someone accessing it via means other than their app. Your objections are pure nonsense, both legally and motive-wise.

 

[Juan]

The tv stations and networks would do the suing....they own the copyrights...not locast...

Locast is a non-profit, they can't sue anyone for billions over something they give away for free. They'd lose their non-profit status since they can't usefully spend even 1% of such an amount. Plus they don't own the copyright for the content, the only thing they own the copyright for is their app software. If you follow so-called "clean room" techniques in reverse engineering software, you are not liable for copyright infringement. Directv/Dish can look at the network traffic, write their own software to generate the same network traffic, and they are lawsuit proof.

Again though, it makes no sense for Locast to sue ANYONE doing this. They want people to use their service. They give it away for free, so they can't demonstrate ANY "loss" from someone accessing it via means other than their app. Your objections are pure nonsense, both legally and motive-wise.

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[ncted]

Locast is a non-profit, they can't sue anyone for billions over something they give away for free. They'd lose their non-profit status since they can't usefully spend even 1% of such an amount. Plus they don't own the copyright for the content, the only thing they own the copyright for is their app software. If you follow so-called "clean room" techniques in reverse engineering software, you are not liable for copyright infringement. Directv/Dish can look at the network traffic, write their own software to generate the same network traffic, and they are lawsuit proof.

Again though, it makes no sense for Locast to sue ANYONE doing this. They want people to use their service. They give it away for free, so they can't demonstrate ANY "loss" from someone accessing it via means other than their app. Your objections are pure nonsense, both legally and motive-wise.

The most I could see someone in their situation doing is suing for an injunction for violating the terms of service for their site, assuming they have any anything declared in their TOS to begin with concerning unauthorized use of the service.

 

[NYDutch]

The tv stations and networks would do the suing....they own the copyrights...not locast...

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Sue for what? Providing a receiver for the OTA signals that Locast is legally retransmitting? Have the stations and networks sued Vizio, Samsung, etc. for copyright violations?

And just as a point of information, the stations and networks typically only hold the copyrights to their own original programming, most commonly newscasts. Most program copyrights are held by the program production companies and distribution companies. The copyright to "Big Bang Theory" for instance, is held by Chuck Lorre Productions and Warner Bros., not CBS. Each copyright holder would have to file their own lawsuit, which isn't likely since they receive no portion of the retransmission fees and usually want their products seen by the widest possible audience anyway.

 

[Juan]

You cant pick up a OTA signal from an antenna and put it on a cable system without an agreement with the station...same concept applies to internet streams....putting up a 3rd party app during a programming dispute has yet to be tested in court..but if Dish or whoever only makes the 3rd party app only available to those who subscribe to locals....dish would be CHARGING for locast....if dish put it up for free..they would still be enriched...without paying the copyright to the station... thats a crime

Sue for what? Providing a receiver for the OTA signals that Locast is legally retransmitting? Have the stations and networks sued Vizio, Samsung, etc. for copyright violations?

And just as a point of information, the stations and networks typically only hold the copyrights to their own original programming, most commonly newscasts. Most program copyrights are held by the program production companies and distribution companies. The copyright to "Big Bang Theory" for instance, is held by Chuck Lorre Productions and Warner Bros., not CBS. Each copyright holder would have to file their own lawsuit, which isn't likely since they receive no portion of the retransmission fees and usually want their products seen by the widest possible audience anyway.

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[NYDutch]

You cant pick up a OTA signal from an antenna and put it on a cable system without an agreement with the station...same concept applies to internet streams....putting up a 3rd party app during a programming dispute has yet to be tested in court..but if Dish or whoever only makes the 3rd party app only available to those who subscribe to locals....dish would be CHARGING for locast....if dish put it up for free..they would still be enriched...without paying the copyright to the station... thats a crime

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But a non-profit CAN pick up OTA stations from an antenna and retransmit them without paying fees per 17 USC 111. Putting access to Locast on a satellite receiver or cable STB is NOT distributing the programming by wire or sat signal, just making a means of receiving it available to the subscribers at no charge. That's just as they already do with OTA broadcasts either direct from the originating tower or from an intermediate translator tower. Dish has made the Locast app available to all Hopper users at no charge, just as DTV has made it available to all at no charge, and Locast makes it available to all at no charge. Even embedding the app wouldn't change that. Dish does not care if you're a locals subscriber or not when it comes to using the app. With the increasing locals retrans fees, Dish would very much prefer that everyone switch to OTA locals by whatever means, and drop the sat locals. That's why they made the locals optional in the first place...

 

[Juan]

I guess you guys never heard of syndex and local blackout rules...the station pays the copyright fees to the programs they carry...meaning they control the rights to those programs...the stations then sell ads and collect subscriber fees....the internet is not OTA...just look up kodi and see what happened to them...to distribute an unauthorized stream is piracy...the stream is legal in the locast app..but to remove and then integrate into a stb is probably piracy..dish could give its customers rokus or firesticks during a dispute and suggest they use locast..but to replace a broadcast signal with a unauthorized stream during a dispute is piracy

You cant pick up a OTA signal from an antenna and put it on a cable system without an agreement with the station...same concept applies to internet streams....putting up a 3rd party app during a programming dispute has yet to be tested in court..but if Dish or whoever only makes the 3rd party app only available to those who subscribe to locals....dish would be CHARGING for locast....if dish put it up for free..they would still be enriched...without paying the copyright to the station... thats a crime

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[Juan]

You do know that internet is by wire I hope

But a non-profit CAN pick up OTA stations from an antenna and retransmit them without paying fees per 17 USC 111. Putting access to Locast on a satellite receiver or cable STB is NOT distributing the programming by wire or sat signal, just making a means of receiving it available to the subscribers at no charge. That's just as they already do with OTA broadcasts either direct from the originating tower or from an intermediate translator tower. Dish has made the Locast app available to all Hopper users at no charge, just as DTV has made it available to all at no charge, and Locast makes it available to all at no charge. Even embedding the app wouldn't change that. Dish does not care if you're a locals subscriber or not when it comes to using the app. With the increasing locals retrans fees, Dish would very much prefer that everyone switch to OTA locals by whatever means, and drop the sat locals. That's why they made the locals optional in the first place...

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[slice1900]

The tv stations and networks would do the suing....they own the copyrights...not locast...

Legally there's no difference between Directv putting Locast's app on the Genie or building the functionality into the Genie's software so the channels show up in the guide. Either what Locast is doing is legal or illegal, but copyright law only allows suing the infringer, which is Locast as they are the ones "rebroadcasting" the local affiliates.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Once the local stations start losing revenue from cable and satellite companies they will...i.e. first time Charlie drops a local and adds locast on the internet connected hopper as a replacement the fun will begin

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That only works if the customer has internet

 

[NYDutch]

You do know that internet is by wire I hope

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You do know the Internet is by wire, fiber, microwave, satellite, and wireless I hope.

 

[NYDutch]

I guess you guys never heard of syndex and local blackout rules...the station pays the copyright fees to the programs they carry...meaning they control the rights to those programs...the stations then sell ads and collect subscriber fees....the internet is not OTA...just look up kodi and see what happened to them...to distribute an unauthorized stream is piracy...the stream is legal in the locast app..but to remove and then integrate into a stb is probably piracy..dish could give its customers rokus or firesticks during a dispute and suggest they use locast..but to replace a broadcast signal with a unauthorized stream during a dispute is piracy

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You're going to grab at any straw you can think of, no matter how far fetched it is, aren't you...

Are you really saying that using Locast's streams outside of their app somehow makes their streams illegal? Really? That makes no sense at all. And of course so far we have no information that would lead us to think any service is planning to integrate Locast's streams into their STB beyond supporting the standalone app anyway. Would you be happier if they integrated Locast's streams using Locast's API as supplied by Locast? That's a likely scenario anyway, if they decide to go that route.

In case you don't know, Kodi is doing just fine, and is probably the most popular free streaming media player app in use today. Kodi does not distribute anything. Yes, there are add-ons available for Kodi that violate copyright laws, but those are not Kodi products and Kodi has no more responsibility for them than Amazon has for third-party apps used on the Firestick that violate copyrights. Kodi is a media tool, nothing more...

 

[Juan]

Legally there is a huge difference..locast doesn't own the streams

Legally there's no difference between Directv putting Locast's app on the Genie or building the functionality into the Genie's software so the channels show up in the guide. Either what Locast is doing is legal or illegal, but copyright law only allows suing the infringer, which is Locast as they are the ones "rebroadcasting" the local affiliates.

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