Birdview motor and pole questions

[pendragon]

I'm looking at picking up a 8.5' solid Birdview. However it would be a good drive there and back. The owner has been quite helpful in supplying information, but I still have a few questions for those who already have one.

1. The pole size is 6" OD, which I have heard before. As the nearest steel pipe OD dimensions are 5.56 and 6.63", I'm curious what others have used. Would it be better to scavenge the tube a la Anole? Maybe I should cut it off at the ground and weld it onto something else.

2. Does anyone know what the maximum motor angles a Birdview motor can achieve? The scans of Birdview literature here suggest +/- 60 degrees or +/- 70 degrees. That's kind of on the edge for me because I would like to get to 74 degrees for eastern coverage. If anyone has experience in driving their Bridview motor to its extreme, I'd very much appreciate hearing from you. If you don't know the motor angle for your most extreme satellites, simply provide your lat/long and the lowest bird you can hit. I can then calculate the motor angle.

Thanks!

 

[radio]

On the first topic, GET the pole! One of the biggest reasons Birdviews stay aligned so well is there is a solid metal plate about 4" down (giver or take) inside the top of the pole, with a threaded hole in the center for the lock-down bolt of the whole dish! Not only do you have (3) bolts on the side to help make sure there is no movement in high wind, the top large bolt keeps the whole unit from being mounted "less than level" and helps with overall stability. (assuming the pole is properly installed.)

They're NOT that hard to pull! Plan on some labor, but once you dig around it, you should find a "bell" shaped mass of concrete if it was properly installed, which, if pulled up by a large vehicle ( and chains around the lower part of the pole) will come to the surface. Done it many a time with good help! Then, the concrete will knock-off with a maul. You're left with a proper pole with fins below ground that also make sure the pole doesn't rotate in its concrete.

Probably "too much info"....but its worth the work! Get the WHOLE system!

On the second question? I cannot help..other than the units were sold as "Horizon to Horizon" mounts, meaning they could go much FARTHER than the standard jack-arm style of positioner! Once you set the arc properly, it just TRACKS! Others here can help you more on that!

 

[stogie5150]

Cut it off, Pendragon, and weld it to another piece of pipe. Much easier than digging it up. But you DO need the pipe because of the plate inside, as Radio said above.

As far as how far it can see...ummm...here at 89.4W my TS sat is 91w, and I can see 139w no problem to the west. To the East I don't know because I have trees blocking 40w on down.

The BV setup will damn near drive the dish to Horizontal on each end. I always chicken out before I run it out...LOL

Pendragon, check out the first post in this thread for pics on how I did my pole...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-satellite-discussion/155628-stogie5150s-birdview-install.html

 

[phlatwound]

Cut it off, Pendragon, and weld it to another piece of pipe. Much easier than digging it up. But you DO need the pipe because of the plate inside, as Radio said above.

The BV setup will damn near drive the dish to Horizontal on each end. I always chicken out before I run it out...LOL

Yeh, don't worry if you do have to cut it off, the BV tube is a perfect slip-fit inside of 6" Sch 40 pipe. I did exactly that with one of mine. You can see it here:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/154646-phlats-birdview-install-3.html#post1600071

And I agree with Stogie about the travel, last night I drove my dish down to where it looked almost perpendicular to the ground (and evicted some red wasps). It may not go a full 180 degrees of travel but I bet it's not far off of that.

 

[phlatwound]

I just did some experimenting to try and get some better data on this.

The BV mount has no mechanical stops or electrical limit switches built in from the factory. Eventually the worm gear will just run out of the flat rack gear and the dish will flop until the mount hits the pole I guess.

Here is how far I dared run mine (below):

The dish look angle at that point in the worm gear travel is 13.5 degrees.

I am at 93.7 W longitude, Intelsat 25 @ 31.5W is at 13.4 degrees for me here, so that is about 62 degrees from apex....so about 125 degrees of arc, total, for the BV mount.

If you built some mechanical limits you might get a couple/few more degrees on either side of center, but I think 74 degrees is pushing it.

 

[linuxman]

I had no problems getting Hispasat at 30W with my Birdviews using the H-H mount that came with it, and there was still room to travel. I am at 90.7W with 91W being my TSS.

The dish wouldn't flop, but you do have to be careful as Phlatwound said above, the rack gear will dig into the back of the dish when you get that far down because of the lack of mechanical limit switches.

I never tried getting any satellites below Hispasat, but I'm sure it will go down further.

 

[radio]

Just curious, am I the only one who has saved all the poles to all the BV's I've owned when transplanting? It really isn't that hard to do! Maybe its cuz I used to help put 'em in new.

In any case, if when installing you have "cut and welded" per the other posts, Still reccomend the installation of the "fins" by welding to the pipe below ground. Your pipe will never move from changes in concrete, corrosion, or anything else. The fins on the pipes were part of the BV "best build" for consumers, and part of the reason as dealers we didn't have to worry about our installs! Some will argue it would take years for corrosion to cause this, but they were there for a reason! Consider the leverage that above ground dish gives to the pole if it even TRIES to move!

 

[linuxman]

Just curious, am I the only one who has saved all the poles to all the BV's I've owned when transplanting? It really isn't that hard to do! Maybe its cuz I used to help put 'em in new.

I saved the poles from ground level up on the ones I retrieved. But then, I was going to attach them to NPRMs for my roof.

But you are correct, the upper part with the plate in the pole for bolting the cap on is essential.

 

[radio]

I saved the poles from ground level up on the ones I retrieved. But then, I was going to attach them to NPRMs for my roof.

An EXCELLENT point!

 

[pendragon]

Thanks for everyone's inputs and ideas!

Based on radio's, stogie's and phlat's insight, I'm planning to take sufficient weapons in the truck. At the worst I'll cut off the tube at ground level and later weld it to an extension pipe. At best we'll dig it out and drag it up with my truck, followed by some sledge/air hammer retouching.

It sounds as though the limits of travel may vary a bit with different Birdview motors. Phlat got to a motor angle of about 68.9 degrees according to my calculations, but that's right at his limit. Linuxman hits 30W at about a 66.9 degree motor angle with some extra travel still left. I'll be real curious if and when I can get the motor on the bench to see what it can do. Maybe there's another mod in store. If I can hit 74 degrees I'll make 37.5W, which is one of my more interesting birds. I'd love to be able to roll it down to 30W, but a 3 degree elevation generally requires a fixed mount with my other dishes.

I'm not counting my chickens, yet, but everything looks like a go at this point. I will have negotiating to do at the city level, but I'm planning to offer to take down my 1.8m Fortec, which causes me nothing but mini-hassles, and put the Birdview much more out of sight. I'm hoping it will be an even better match for a dual ortho. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions!

 

[skysurfer]

Just curious, am I the only one who has saved all the poles to all the BV's I've owned when transplanting? It really isn't that hard to do!

I have the whole birdview pole from the only one birdview that I have. I would say you've one-upped me becuase you've saved the poles from several birdviews instead of just one.

I was surprised how the concrete cleved into big chunks when whacked a few times with the blunt end of a digging bar, so removal may not be as bad as one would think once you move some dirt out from around the center pole and can hit the concrete a few times to see if it will shatter into large pieces.

 

[phlatwound]

Here's a pic of the bottom of the only "complete" BV mounting tube I have ever seen. I would estimate the tube material thickness to be somewhere around 12 gauge.

 

[radio]

I have the whole birdview pole from the only one birdview that I have. I would say you've one-upped me becuase you've saved the poles from several birdviews instead of just one.

I was surprised how the concrete cleved into big chunks when whacked a few times with the blunt end of a digging bar, so removal may not be as bad as one would think once you move some dirt out from around the center pole and can hit the concrete a few times to see if it will shatter into large pieces.

Exactly right! It breaks off the pole easily!!! A little work going "in" to the transplant makes for less engineering work on the "new" location.

 

[oldsatdude]

When running the mount from Horizon to Horizon, look out that you don't run the dish off the gear. Those solid units may not have any mechanical limit switches on the gear plate. Be sure to watch the dish when setting things up! The bolt in the middle of the dish is 1 inch and 1/8 socket. With a breaker bar and the socket, the removal of the bolt is easy as there is not much room between the vertical fins.

Good advise from Radio. Get the whole system! Break the concrete off and bury it in the hole.

 

[Anole]

It sounds as though the limits of travel may vary a bit with different Birdview motors.
Phlat got to a motor angle of about 68.9 degrees according to my calculations, but that's right at his limit.
Linuxman hits 30W at about a 66.9 degree motor angle with some extra travel still left.
I'll be real curious if and when I can get the motor on the bench to see what it can do.
Maybe there's another mod in store.
If I can hit 74 degrees I'll make 37.5W, which is one of my more interesting birds.
I'd love to be able to roll it down to 30W, but a 3 degree elevation generally requires a fixed mount with my other dishes.

I wouldn't suggest this to anyone else without inserting a big grin, but . . .
If it's east you want, and not west...
You could install the pole with a 10° or 15° east tilt.
I'll say no more.

 

[pendragon]

You could install the pole with a 10° or 15° east tilt.

I've done crazier things in my life, but I think I'll look into other options first I will need a chain saw to adjust the alignment down to 55.5W. Thus I'm not even sure this location will have visibility to 37.5W. The harvest is scheduled for tomorrow, after which I start working with the city for approval.

 

[Lone Cloud]

I am a little late in this post but I thought I would comment.

Before I got my BV I had another big dish that had a 3.5 inch pole. I had filled that with concrete and even had put in "L" shaped rebars in the bottom, shallow footing.

I cut off the BV pole as close to the ground as I could with a circular saw with one of those black, metal cutting blades. Since my dish is over my roof, I put the six inch BV pole over that one. I drilled holes through the BV pole. Since the BV pole was about six feet long, the holes I drilled were two near the top (but under the mount) and two near the bottom at right angles to the ones at the top. I drilled smaller holes in the inner pole and tapped those, so that the bolts would go through the BV pole and screw into the inner pole. It was a bit of a concern that I would ruin the drill bits or the tapper when going through the concrete in the inner pole, but that really didn't happen. Then with the nuts on the bolt threads I was able to plumb the BV pole exactly. A longer carpenter's level is best for the plumb work on that.

Ultimately, after I was satisfied that the rig was plumb and tracking the arc well, I cut a two inch by two inch port in the BV pipe near the top, taped up the bottom so the concrete didn't pour out, and worked concrete into the pipe. As I was filling it, I hit it repeatedly (but not too hard) with a rubber mallet. That got all the air out of the concrete. Since it was my last chance to plumb it all up, I checked it when the concrete was still wet and was prepared to do fine adjustments for plumb - didn't have to.

Worked out good. Hasn't moved. Even though there is a big difference in the diameters of the poles, in my situation, the 3.5 goes from the ground to the bottom of the eaves, and the six inch BV pole goes from the top of the roof to the mount - so you hardly notice it.

Oh. I am out at about 115 degrees west and get everything from 55.5 west to 139 west. Like others, I haven't pushed the motor all the way in either direction