Can't tune W5/X4 after 1-5-11

[airknocker]

I have a Moto 922 (from 2002). Had been watching subs (Skyvision) on W5, C3 and C4 all along. Lost the guide on 12/31. Called and got everything working on W5. I think I was moved to HITS but did not know about the difference at the time. Was told not to do the remapping conversion until after 1-4. All was well until 1-5 when the guide disappeared. I was watching Discovery Sci and decided to do the 4 step procedure. Before I started I wanted to see if there was anything left on C3 (like C-Span). It was there.

OK, dug out the conversion steps and read through them. Moved the dish back to W5 and NOTHING! No channels, no DC lock, nothing! Checked X4, same thing.

Started searching the WWW and found this site. Have been reading every spare minute since then. My brain is nearly fried, but I think I understand a WHOLE lot more than I did before. I have tried lots of things, but nothing works. I am starting to think my 922 is toast. Here is what I have done so far.
Soft reset (hold power button for 3 seconds)
Unplugged AC power
Cleared the EMM (unplugging sets this back to 4096)
Tested the location of the sats on either side of W5 and my actuator hits them just fine, I can get a DC light on other sats just fine
Tried fine tuning the dish position and/or the polarity
Tried using both CF and G9 to get 1430.000 V to tune in a DC lock on the W5 location.

I am not sure what to do next. I can't get a hit without the DC lock. I don't think the battery is the problem, as I still have an ID and digital channel numbers in my maps. I think that X4 mapped properly as it is showing up as C Band and has digital channels, however the tile is to the left of W5. Channel 216 is set to 1430.000. Any clues here?

I've not been able to complete the alternate procedure and don't want to try the 7 step bricking as I want to hook up my Pansat 2700 again.

Currently, my trip counter is 0, my EMM is 4096 and Channels is 4809. I don't know the TDT in decimal but Diag G shows all ffff except bottom row 3rd from left is fdff. Is my memory full? Can Options 6-7-9-8 be used to clear some of it out?

I can see how full/corrupt memory could prevent successful hits/reloads but would that keep you from getting a DC lock?

Thanks to all who post on this site. I have learned more about my 922 in the last few days than I thought there was to know. I also found out it is only the tip of the iceberg!

airknocker
(if you know what this is, you are a rare person indeed)

 

[Genna]

I've not been able to complete the alternate procedure

I would wait. They're aware some of our 922s differ somehow from other 922s, they gave one of the unsuccessful ones to Motorola to look at, but definitely made it clear it could be a while if and before they figure it out. It may just be some little thing that's easily doable and it may not.. time will tell. Mine, personally had the same sort of situation yours did. The main thing is not being able to take rehits after the alternate conversion. I hit "reset password" to get a mini hit, just so i could view programming on w5 again, it also resets your emm to the new one. but I wouldnt recommend it to people, since no one's said whether or not it could interfere in some way. But i wouldnt brick your unit just yet. Ive cleared my EMM to 0 quite a few times and tried the procedure over again.. still cant get the stupid websams hits... although it does log me out before the 30 minutes the guys said it might take to get one. *********just saw this -- Bad Conversion Fix Coming out 1/10/11 Looks like theyve found something (i hope) http://www.satelliteguys.us/4dtv-discussion/239733-bad-conversion-fix-due-out-week.html

 

[crackt]

are you using a polorator ? try to tune 1430.000 horizontal @ w5 and report back. are the dmx channels in the 800's or 900's on x4 ?

crackt out,.

edit: you could also check your serial # against the link genna posted.

 

[airknocker]

Thanks, but my unit was made in '02, the ones affected are '06 and later.

Yes, I can rotate the antenna inside the LNB by using the polarity controls on the 922. Is that what you mean by polorator?

I have no idea where the dmx channels are at, because I have no guide info, not even a channel listing. That all disappeared on 1-5-11 when I moved the dish of off a working W5 and then back to W5.

Since then I have not been able to get a DC lock using any of the methods listed above. I have cycled through all the polarity settings 5 degrees at a time from -90 to 90. Each time I changed polarity by 5 degrees, then swung the dish "one click" at a time (swept the arc) between the adjacent sats. Back and forth, 5 degrees at a time, pausing long enough that I would normally see DC come on. Nothing. No lock, signal at 100 Quality at 1.

I have done this with the polarity both on H and V from the Options 6-7-7-8-1 screen and frequency set to 1430.000, which is the default for W5 216 and X4 216. This makes me think that my mapping is correct, but I can not explain the no signal part.

I have not, and can not complete any conversion procedure because I cannot tune to the W5/X4 bird to take a hit.

The baffling part is it was all working on 1-5 until I moved the dish off the sat and back on.

I also have a call into Skyvision tech supt. from Friday, but they are so busy I have not heard back from them. Hope they don't call while I am at work and take me off the call back list.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

 

[airknocker]

One other thing. Changing polarity on Options 6-7-7-8-1 does not change the polarity setting on Options 6-4-4. I don't think this matters because I can rotate from -90 to +90 manually.

Auto peak can't find it either. I have tried with W5, X4, CF and G9 all parked on 105 location.

 

[crackt]

very strange. how much of the arc did you sweep ? did you verify the dish is pointing physically in the right direction ? if you have the channel x4 216, i think you have the right map. its crazy you can lock other signals and not w5. i master reset one time and lost g1, i know how frustrating things can get with the 4d's. i wish you luck, you tried everything i can suggest.

crackt out,.

 

[airknocker]

I had written down the actuator position numbers and polarity settings for W5 before I did anything. The only thing that could cause me to not be pointing at W5 would be if the dish mount twisted on the pole. I have had that happen in high winds, but that affects every position number for every bird, and that is not the case, every one but W5/X4 hits right on target. My polarity skew settings are unchanged. I was on W5 and receiving, moved off and back on within 10 minutes and it was "dead".

I am going to try deleting X4, then switching to CF (which I have set up at the W5 location) tune to cf 107 and unplug the unit for a few minutes. Then power up and just let it sit, maybe even over night. Hopefully it will download the X4 map. I can't think of anything else to try. I will also make note of the channel counts before and after on both CF and W5, to see if I get a clue from that.

I will post the results tomorrow.

 

[crackt]

yah i had my pole twist in the ground. haha. none of my dishes were meant to be permanent so i skimped on bagcrete. when i grabbed x4 i had to deselect it and then i only had to sit tuned on w5 for about 5 minutes. i feel bad for those having so many issues. i converted my 920 922 and 905 in about an hour. it only took so long cuz the guide takes forever to trickle down. ill be following this post waiting for your results. good luck. i hope you can get a dc2 lock @ w5.

crackt out,.

 

[greshg]

I have an old 922 that I haven't used for a few years and when I hooked it up I couldn't get it to download the X4 maps. After some digging I discovered the TDT on that 922 is at 1920. I guess that is why it can't load the aditional maps. I am going to leave that one alone because I get some interesting stuff with the old maps.

 

[pwrsurge]

yah i had my pole twist in the ground. haha. none of my dishes were meant to be permanent so i skimped on bagcrete. when i grabbed x4 i had to deselect it and then i only had to sit tuned on w5 for about 5 minutes. i feel bad for those having so many issues. i converted my 920 922 and 905 in about an hour. it only took so long cuz the guide takes forever to trickle down. ill be following this post waiting for your results. good luck. i hope you can get a dc2 lock @ w5.

crackt out,.

This is why you should dril at least 2 holes through your mast pipe and slide in short pieces of rebar in so that it creates a + at the base. This will prevent the pole from twisting in the concrete.


Regards,

PwrSurge

 

[oldsatdude]

Did you try removing the setting for X-4 and then reprograming it back in?

 

[crackt]

This is why you should dril at least 2 holes through your mast pipe and slide in short pieces of rebar in so that it creates a + at the base. This will prevent the pole from twisting in the concrete.


Regards,

PwrSurge

i wasnt concerned with longevity at the time. the dish was never meant to stand for more than a few months. originally planted a 2 7/8 pole in only 7 bags of quickcrete to mount a 8 ft mesh. it handled that dish no problems. i then scored a big 9 ft spun and it was very heavy. i sleeved the smaller pole up to 4 1/2 inches and it made it thru the winter. it didnt like the warmer freeze thaw cycle of spring tho. haha. i sold the spun and sleeved the pipe to 3 1/2 inches now for the 10 footer. when i find a more permanent place to set up my 15 or so BUDs ill make the install a little more robust. for now ill just leave the pipe the way it is so i can get it out of the ground when i sell my house.

to get back on topic... w5 is stronger than the other sats for me so if you ever do get a lock it appears moto has fixed the issues others were having with the conversion.

crackt out,.

 

[airknocker]

Well, I found my TDT is at 1709 so that is not the problem. I can send my dish to any other sat, and it nails the position dead on each time, so the alignment is not a problem. I just can not get any signal from W5/X4 or CF when at the location of W5. I deleted X4 and positioned the dish on W5, then switched to Cf and power cycled the unit for 60 seconds. Left it on over night, nothing. Went back to W5 this morning and checked the usual channels, still no signal.

When I was sweeping the arc last weekend, I went probably 5 degrees each side of the known position of W5, changing the polarity skew by 5 degrees with each sweep, no signal detected. I know my LNB is good, as I can hit open channels on other birds and tune them in just fine, C-Span for example. I can rotate the skew and watch the signal go in and out. I can get DC lock on birds either side of W5. It even seems as though the 922 is just fine. Although, I think it is the only thing left by process of elimination. I was hoping it was just a setting that could be corrected without a MR.

At this point it seems the only thing left to try is a MR, but if that does not work, I not only don't get X4, but I loose my dish mover. So, I am thinking about just buying a 410 and setting it up for X4 programming and letting the 922 be the way it is so I can start playing with my Pansat 2700 again.

Any other ideas would be appreciated!

 

[airknocker]

I just looked at the updated instructions from Skyvision. I currently have a channel count of 4805. I did delete X4 and this count did not change. Will deleting some other unused sats from the map help free up memory? If so, will the count go down or will that only change when the map is updated?

I still don't know if anything will work as long as I can't get a DC lock. Will parking on W5-603 still download anything even though it is showing no signal quality? My guess is no, as it has shown no tendency to do anything since I "lost" W5.

 

[crackt]

deleting a sat tile from your programmed sats will not change the channel count. and until you get a dc2 lock your maps wont update. have you tried to tune g0 10 ?

crackt out,.

 

[airknocker]

No, but I will try that when I get home.

Additional question: Can I use a Pansat 2700 to check for signal strength from W5? I see that the only fta stuff on W5 is all MPEG4 and I know the 2700 is only MPEG2, but can I use the 2700 to verify that I am indeed on target and receiving C-band frequencies? Kind of like a poor man's signal analyzer? I have a Birdog but will have to reprogram it with AMC-18 settings. I have only had limited success with it for C-band birds, so I was thinking that the Pansat might be a better solution, where I can see the TP, Pol and freq. settings along with a signal strength meter. I know I can't check for a DC lock but at least I could rule out my alignment. I have no reason to think alignment is the issue, but if I could confirm signal reception with another device it would pretty much put the nail in the coffin of the 922.

 

[crackt]

i should mention that skyvisions instructions state to use g0 10 @ w5 not at g0. as for using your pansat to identify w5, i had the same thought, but all i see is dvs2 transponders there so it wont work.

crackt out,.

 

[airknocker]

Well, the more I thought about this the more weird it seemed so I decided to go back to basics and see where it falls apart. I sat down with the remote and an arc map. I went to every bird I could identify and wrote down the position number for each one. Every one came up without any tweaking except W5. I started comparing numbers to locations and it became obvious that the numbers for W5 were WAY off. Figured from both east and west and my calculations came up close to the same position, but the numbers stored for W5 were 93 from where it should be. So I manually tuned the where it should be and Walla! it tuned in. I have seen this happen before, but only for all the sats when the head turned on the pole. Never have I seen only one stored position get so far off. It was nearly 9° from where it should have been. I have no idea how the stored position for one sat could get so badly corrupted. When I was sweeping the arc the other day, I was within about 5 numbers of the correct spot, but could not believe it could be off that far, heck I had passed two other birds already. Anyway, sure glad I did not do the MR

So now I can get a DC lock on W5 and GO@105°. Did the amended alternate procedure that Skyvision posted this afternoon. Still not getting the X4 mapping correctly but was able to get a re-hit and pick up the new guide with the SRL logo. Although the guide appears to be incomplete and the receiver is extremely slow in navigating the guide and even in tuning channels. I decided to leave it parked on a digital channel on W5 over night to see what shakes out tomorrow. At least I have some viewable channels now. I will open a new thread for the re-mapping if needed. My TDT is 1706 and hits are at 11 right now. The only problem I see is channel count is still at 4809 and I don't have any of the DMX mappings for X4.

A big thank you to everyone who gave ideas and especially to this entire forum. All the threads I have read the last few days helped form a better over all understanding of what was going on and what needs to happen to make it work properly.

Cheers everyone!

 

[crackt]

well. if you want to update the x4 map.... remove x4 from your saved sats and tune to w5 602. let it sit a couple minutes and soft reset. glad your making headway. the guide takes quite a while to populate but is quite responsive after it does.

crackt out,.