Joesp and HPMan this thread is for you
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why is everyone so sure that there wont be any to go around by even feburary? they have said they will have 400,000 out by Nov 17th. and 100,000 after that to the US. This close I believe their numbers, and I also believe that the high price point will scare people away. I am alsohoping I can snag one at wal mart (we just opened a store there, so I am hoping to talk to the store manager!)
Did you see what happened with the 360?
MS had around 600,000 units out in the first 60 days. I didn't see 360s in stock in stores for over 4 months.
MS had around 600,000 units out in the first 60 days. I didn't see 360s in stock in stores for over 4 months.
right but microsoft didnt put 100,000 in the stores every week after launch, and 4 months puts me right about the end of feb. plus the reason that they werent in stores was because people like me were buying them!
I can only repeat myself: if anyone thinks a slightly updated 7800/7900-based Nv chip is a match to R600 with its unified architecture then I can't really help here./
PS: no, I'm not going to link here everything you should've read already - do your homework, sorry.
PS: no, I'm not going to link here everything you should've read already - do your homework, sorry.
Please, answer my question from earlier. Do you really know anything about this? Because if you do it seems like you would want to prove yourself, so link me. Link me all day until I cant read anymore, until then, or until you prove that you can delve into the specs and know what everything means, you're a fake in my book.
Graphically speaking the PS3 has the bump over the 360 period! How do I know that you might ask. Simple, the CELL CPU's SPEs can handle Texture, Mapping, Enviroment and other tasks that can be handed off by the programmer freeing the RSX chip to do other things. As a matter of fact, Sony originally was going to only use the CELL to do everything, Nvidea approached and offered the RSX chip. On the 360, their GPU will be doing all the work. That is why there will be graphics done on the PS3 that can not be done on the 360. Case in point, let me know when the 360 has a game like Motorstorm that has a changing enviroment that is never the same twice?
As for speed, there have been several articles posted , some from programmers themselves that point to the CELL having a considerable advantage because each SPE has its own memory cache and can act totally independent from the CELL CPU and the RSX chip. The 360's CPU and GPU share memory and bus. The seperate cores of the 360 do no operate independent from each other because of the shared memory and bus with the GPU. The PS3 CELL and RSX have their own bus. Gee, do I have to continue?
Both systems are set up to do HD so they both will do great graphics. However, the PS3 is setup to us a higher bandwith, deeper color set, higher bit rate and faster frame rate at 1080p simply from the inclusion of the HDMI 1.3. Sony waiting for HDMI 1.3 made this happen. Sorry, but I do not see how the 360 compares here.
And finally to dispell this simple misunderstanding. A single speed BluRay drive is considerably faster then a single speed DVD drive in the downloading of data on the disc. DVD slows down and speeds up depending on where the data is coming from on the disc. BluRay does not. A two speed BluRay drive is about as fast as the DVD drive currently being used on the 360. So please, if we are going to compare apples to oranges at least lets get our math right.
As for speed, there have been several articles posted , some from programmers themselves that point to the CELL having a considerable advantage because each SPE has its own memory cache and can act totally independent from the CELL CPU and the RSX chip. The 360's CPU and GPU share memory and bus. The seperate cores of the 360 do no operate independent from each other because of the shared memory and bus with the GPU. The PS3 CELL and RSX have their own bus. Gee, do I have to continue?
Both systems are set up to do HD so they both will do great graphics. However, the PS3 is setup to us a higher bandwith, deeper color set, higher bit rate and faster frame rate at 1080p simply from the inclusion of the HDMI 1.3. Sony waiting for HDMI 1.3 made this happen. Sorry, but I do not see how the 360 compares here.
And finally to dispell this simple misunderstanding. A single speed BluRay drive is considerably faster then a single speed DVD drive in the downloading of data on the disc. DVD slows down and speeds up depending on where the data is coming from on the disc. BluRay does not. A two speed BluRay drive is about as fast as the DVD drive currently being used on the 360. So please, if we are going to compare apples to oranges at least lets get our math right.
Well this is all really cute and all but i am getting a PS3 also and i will be the judge of that. I will how ever say this I did see a quick clip of sonic for both 360 and ps3 and ps3 did look better to me. At the same time i am really good with computers and ATI as far as graphics are the best picture quality hands down. Even when against a fast nvidia card.
I work for a scientific animation/visualization/pp company. How about you?
How sad... I'm very disturbed now...
It is becoming obvious to me that these threads do not have any intention to educate. They are just a place for a few fanboys to stroke themselves. Have fun doing that. I don't need it.
I am confused with you as well, The 360 is more powerful then the PS3, the Ps3 is more powerful then the 360.....all I want are facts, I have a 360 now, if it is the least powerful so be it, even though I do Like Halo series and counter strike, I just want educated is the Ps3 going to outsell the 360 and get all the good games, and also if I do decide to keep the 360 will the games look as good, or in the worst case (slightly, and I mean slightly worse)?
The problem that I see is you are asking people to speculate. Until the PS3 is released and we get to see it in action, playing real games, how can anyone form an opinion about it?
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how about from the specs that have been released as final. But you bring up a good point, we wont know until a year from now when Ps3 has games that are developed for it, and the 360 has games developed for it.
Alright, lets clear the air a little bit on this who is more powerful stuff.
In the GPU race if we take the CELL out of the picture the XBOX360's GPU is more powerfull than the RSX chip. This is based on its ablility to do HDR and AA in hardware and the 48 pixel pipe lines. However, these pipelines are not dedicated and therefore might not bring to the 360 better graphics then the PS3s 24 dedicated pixel pipe lines. Only after the PS3 is out will we all be able to tell which is better.
However on the CPU side the CELL has the 360 by the gonads. The 360's CPU's do not operate independently of each other. In addition the 360's CPU and GPU share the same buss. In the CELL not only does the CPU operate with its own buss but the 7 SPEs can operate independently of the CPU with their own memory. These SPEs can be used by the programmer to do graphics that the GPU would normally do thus freeing up the RSX to do other things. In addition, as I said before the RSX has its own buss seperate from the CELL CPU.
So what does all this mean. I am sure that T2k who has to tell everyone where he works so that means he always uses facts and technically expresses himself could step in here but I am not sure he really knows what he talks about. So I will do it for him.
The 360 and the PS3 can do some things that the other cannot. You will see more textures on the 360 and the graphics should look great with hardware AA and HDR. I expect the 360 to excell here against the PS3. The PS3 on the other hand will be able to do enviroment deforming on the fly, have a higher color palete (thanks again to the HDMI 1.3) a higher frame rate, and a better functioning AI. The question I have is how much of a hit will doing HDR and AA take on the hardware. If the CELL performs as anticipated then the PS3 will surpass the 360 in how it handles the enviroment and AI, thus giving the programmer the ability to make more realistic worlds to play in.
Bottom line, both systems do things well and some things not as well. Both do HD graphics. Both have strengths and weaknesses. It is up to the programmers to elicit the strengths and give us great games. Buy the system you like and the games you want to play. I have a feeling that the majority of us in two years will have both systems and will be enjoying some great games.
In the GPU race if we take the CELL out of the picture the XBOX360's GPU is more powerfull than the RSX chip. This is based on its ablility to do HDR and AA in hardware and the 48 pixel pipe lines. However, these pipelines are not dedicated and therefore might not bring to the 360 better graphics then the PS3s 24 dedicated pixel pipe lines. Only after the PS3 is out will we all be able to tell which is better.
However on the CPU side the CELL has the 360 by the gonads. The 360's CPU's do not operate independently of each other. In addition the 360's CPU and GPU share the same buss. In the CELL not only does the CPU operate with its own buss but the 7 SPEs can operate independently of the CPU with their own memory. These SPEs can be used by the programmer to do graphics that the GPU would normally do thus freeing up the RSX to do other things. In addition, as I said before the RSX has its own buss seperate from the CELL CPU.
So what does all this mean. I am sure that T2k who has to tell everyone where he works so that means he always uses facts and technically expresses himself could step in here but I am not sure he really knows what he talks about. So I will do it for him.
The 360 and the PS3 can do some things that the other cannot. You will see more textures on the 360 and the graphics should look great with hardware AA and HDR. I expect the 360 to excell here against the PS3. The PS3 on the other hand will be able to do enviroment deforming on the fly, have a higher color palete (thanks again to the HDMI 1.3) a higher frame rate, and a better functioning AI. The question I have is how much of a hit will doing HDR and AA take on the hardware. If the CELL performs as anticipated then the PS3 will surpass the 360 in how it handles the enviroment and AI, thus giving the programmer the ability to make more realistic worlds to play in.
Bottom line, both systems do things well and some things not as well. Both do HD graphics. Both have strengths and weaknesses. It is up to the programmers to elicit the strengths and give us great games. Buy the system you like and the games you want to play. I have a feeling that the majority of us in two years will have both systems and will be enjoying some great games.
And if we take out the TV, we won't see anything...
360's GPU is more advanced than RSX, period. It has nothing to do with Cell.
OMFG, that's the point in Xenos.
Joe, *READ* before you spread these kind of 'stuff' on public forums, please.
"Better" has nothing to do with (y)our current subject, let alone it's a subjective term.
Stop moving the goalpost - if you have no idea about anytyhing, don't make a post.
Your assumptions are wrong again...
Well all this above doesn't mean too much...
He asked for it and I'm not afraid to tell - he in return didn't have the balls, how about you, Joe?
Why would I declare such a baloney?
...and they lived happily ever after. Good night kids.
In reality it's pretty well known it takes much-much more effort to code for Cell, let alone that MS has a fully vertical development platform. On paper PS3 looked and sounded always nice and dandy but in reality it always turned out to be a fiasco - like everything else Sony touched during the past ~5 years.
T2k, what do you do at that company -- answer phones. Nothing I stated was wrong. The SPEs in the Cell can be used to do graphic work independently of the Cpu and GPU. The 360 does not have that ablility. As for assumptions as to how the CELL works --- get off the phone long enough to not just say you disagree but state something -- anything. And the baloney is you thinking that working at a 'scientific animation/visualization/pp company' means you know what you are talking about? And you ask questions like what is a portal? Maybe you really don't understand the CELL. Here is an article for your amusment (for others it might just be informing).
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/technology/11/05/5cell.html
So what we really have is a differant type of CPU architecture. Of course it is going to be harder to program for. It is not a PC chip like the CPU in the 360 it is something total differant and IBM expects to make BILLIONS on the sale of the CELL chip. And if you really want to get technical:
http://mc.com/literature/literature_files/Cell-Perf-Simple.pdf
T2k-- your turn.
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/technology/11/05/5cell.html
So what we really have is a differant type of CPU architecture. Of course it is going to be harder to program for. It is not a PC chip like the CPU in the 360 it is something total differant and IBM expects to make BILLIONS on the sale of the CELL chip. And if you really want to get technical:
http://mc.com/literature/literature_files/Cell-Perf-Simple.pdf
T2k-- your turn.
T2k, what do you do at that company -- answer phones. Nothing I stated was wrong. The SPEs in the Cell can be used to do graphic work independently of the Cpu and GPU. The 360 does not have that ablility. As for assumptions as to how the CELL works --- get off the phone long enough to not just say you disagree but state something -- anything. And the baloney is you thinking that working at a 'scientific animation/visualization/pp company' means you know what you are talking about? And you ask questions like what is a portal? Maybe you really don't understand the CELL. Here is an article for your amusment (for others it might just be informing).
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/technology/11/05/5cell.html
So what we really have is a differant type of CPU architecture. Of course it is going to be harder to program for. It is not a PC chip like the CPU in the 360 it is something total differant and IBM expects to make BILLIONS on the sale of the CELL chip. And if you really want to get technical:
http://mc.com/literature/literature_files/Cell-Perf-Simple.pdf
T2k-- your turn.
This guy is h-i-l-a-r-i-o-u-s...
"The SPEs in the Cell can be used to do graphic work independently of the Cpu and GPU. The 360 does not have that ablility"
Wow, this is powerful stupid! Obviously you don't even understand the very basics of this subject - Joe: anything can be done (well, almost) in software on general purpose hardware like a CPU - it's just specialized hardware simply much faster.
"It is not a PC chip like the CPU in the 360 it is something total differant and IBM expects to make BILLIONS..."
Pssst, here-, here, Joe... pssst... Xenon and Cell are both based on the same PPC design... but it's a secret, don't tell anyone...
: PS: seriously, even I can smell the burning flesh now... shouldn't you just ask rather?
However I admit complete idiocies like this just make late night work funnier... 
