Ku band LNBF Mounting Ideas Needed

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
Hi folks.
Lot's of time on my hands like probably most of you too.
It's time to start thinking how I'm going to mount a Ku LNBF along side of my Titanium C Band on a 12 footer with button hook feed.
Since we need some fresh air would I be able to see a few photos of how you have yours mounted?

I'm not sure if I need to grab a scalar with a cutout or just fire up the band saw and tig welder and make my own.
Or how many are parking theirs at the edge of the scalar.
How to "clock" it. Nothing to do with skew but I suspect it would be horizontal to the dish if looking at it straight on if the dish was up in the air pointing at 72ish degrees where the C band LNBF is more or less at 0 degrees skew. Make sense?
Another question too would be along with your photos could you note about how much you have to move the dish east or west in relation to a strong C band signal versus getting the Ku signal peaked if you have an actuator.

Maybe my sketch makes sense. Chicken scratch and all.

Arc.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: dl76

RimaNTSS

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 9, 2013
820
863
Riga
Most likely your antenna has 4 feedarms, and they will make obstacles to mount Ku-band LNB in proper position. Anyway, you better make adjustable mount for Ku-band LNB.
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
786
587
Cape Cod - MA.
Hi Arlo,

I recently mounted a Ku LNBF alongside my C band scaler using an idea Brian (Titanium) gave me. Instead of drilling a hole through the scaler as he suggested, I had a spare unused post on the scaler I wasn't using as my previous dish had 4 feed arms. Using a 1 1/2" galvanized pipe hanger that can be purchased at Home Depot, I attached one end of the hanger to the unused post (cutting off most of that end, save for one hole), and then attached Ku LNBF to the other end. I then estimated where the Ku would be pointing to the center of the dish. Using my Sathero satellite meter and scanning though the Ku satellite list on the meter, I found that the strongest signal was coming from 97W. After tweaking the Ku LNBF skew and moving the dish itself for a stronger signal I was satisfied with the signal strength I had and I got everything on 97 Ku. I have equal success with other Ku feeds.
Now...my receiver and ASC1 usually has 97 C band at +5 location. However, I have to move the dish to the -89 position to get Ku signals. No biggie in my book and in time I will try to move the Ku LNBF a little closer to the scaler, but for now I'm pleased. See Picture.
Hope this had been of some help. Good Luck.

John

dish2.jpg
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
Most likely your antenna has 4 feedarms, and they will make obstacles to mount Ku-band LNB in proper position. Anyway, you better make adjustable mount for Ku-band LNB.
It's actually a button hook feed as I mentioned. I've seen the scalar with a cutout to mount a Ku LNB but not sure how it affects C reception/sig. strength.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
Hi Arlo,

I recently mounted a Ku LNBF alongside my C band scaler using an idea Brian (Titanium) gave me. Instead of drilling a hole through the scaler as he suggested, I had a spare unused post on the scaler I wasn't using as my previous dish had 4 feed arms. Using a 1 1/2" galvanized pipe hanger that can be purchased at Home Depot, I attached one end of the hanger to the unused post (cutting off most of that end, save for one hole), and then attached Ku LNBF to the other end. I then estimated where the Ku would be pointing to the center of the dish. Using my Sathero satellite meter and scanning though the Ku satellite list on the meter, I found that the strongest signal was coming from 97W. After tweaking the Ku LNBF skew and moving the dish itself for a stronger signal I was satisfied with the signal strength I had and I got everything on 97 Ku. I have equal success with other Ku feeds.
Now...my receiver and ASC1 usually has 97 C band at +5 location. However, I have to move the dish to the -89 position to get Ku signals. No biggie in my book and in time I will try to move the Ku LNBF a little closer to the scaler, but for now I'm pleased. See Picture.
Hope this had been of some help. Good Luck.

John

View attachment 144179
Looks like a nice and clean setup. Looking at your photo would you say my thoughts are on the right track and if your dish were at your top arc your LNB would look more or less like my drawing on the right?
Considering that your LNB would be on the left side.
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
786
587
Cape Cod - MA.
Arlo,

Yes...I would say that your drawing on the right would reflect my dish appearance at the top of the arc, allowing for the difference in the Ku LNBF placement.

John
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
Arlo,

Yes...I would say that your drawing on the right would reflect my dish appearance at the top of the arc, allowing for the difference in the Ku LNBF placement.

John
Awesome. All this before my second cup of coffee. Now to pick and choose a decent LNBF.
 

iccoldbeer

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 24, 2012
31
40
Canada
Or bin your lnbf plan and use proper bullseye or dp4 or other dual ortho. Because ku band lnbf are made for offset not prime focus and fd ratio. internal scaler incorrect for application. if must sidecar use flanged and ku prime focus flat feed horn
 
Last edited:

RimaNTSS

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 9, 2013
820
863
Riga
In fact, there are several Ku-band LNBFs available on the market, which have integrated feedhorn (flat) to be used on prime focus antennas. Another option is to use flange Ku-band LNB and attach proper feedhorn to it.
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
786
587
Cape Cod - MA.
Arlo,

All good ideas presented besides mine.
However, the method I used with Titanium's direction, would cost you $1.37 (pipe hanger at Home Depot) plus of course the cost of the Ku LNBF. I'm using the Maverick MK1-PLL and you can buy it from one of our Satellite Guys members, ke4est on ebay at a great price.


This installation was easier to do than I thought it would be and I'm currently getting 12dB for example, on the NBC 103 mux.

John
 
  • Like
Reactions: arlo

Brct203

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 24, 2016
1,065
1,050
Connecticut
This is what I have done:
IMG_3946.jpg


the holder is from a "universal LNBF bracket" minus the metal part, and the other piece is cut from an ABS pipe that I flattened. It allows for fine adjustment to get the LNBF in the equatorial plane. I was lucky that the 4 arms are at 45 degree angles from the polar axis, so they were not in the way.

As for the question of the type of scalar, i'm well aware that using a LNBF that is made for an offset dish is not ideal, but it does actually work quite well. And i'm not sure if a proper prime-focus scalar would work well if not mounted at the focal point.

I'm able to get all the satellites i'm supposed to receive, between 30W and 125W

Here in the NorthEast, I suggest using a Universal LNBF as we have a few birds using lower Ku band.

I also have a C-Band LNBF with a dielectric slab on the other side of the C-Band scalar. It works ok. (great on 47.5W and 34.5W, reasonably well on 40.5W, and not at all on 53W)
 
  • Like
Reactions: phlatwound and arlo

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
This is what I have done: View attachment 144192

the holder is from a "universal LNBF bracket" minus the metal part, and the other piece is cut from an ABS pipe that I flattened. It allows for fine adjustment to get the LNBF in the equatorial plane. I was lucky that the 4 arms are at 45 degree angles from the polar axis, so they were not in the way.

As for the question of the type of scalar, i'm well aware that using a LNBF that is made for an offset dish is not ideal, but it does actually work quite well. And i'm not sure if a proper prime-focus scalar would work well if not mounted at the focal point.

I'm able to get all the satellites i'm supposed to receive, between 30W and 125W

Here in the NorthEast, I suggest using a Universal LNBF as we have a few kw birds using lower Ku band.

I also have a C-Band LNBF with a dielectric slab on the other side of the C-Band scalar. It works ok. (great on 47.5W and 34.5W, reasonably well on 40.5W, and not at all on 53W)
All great photos. Has my mind going now.
I thought that the scalar design was different for offset vs prime focus dishes and LNBs were pretty much the same.
Correct me on that one.
I like the EMT bracket idea. I like the dedicated universal mount a little better though. Is the O.D. of them the same (LNB)?
It's a little hard to tell. Being offset from your C Band feed are you tilting in the Ku feed towards the dish center or did you leave it pointing straight down? Make sense?
Also would it be a good idea to point the dish straight up and string line it across the dish center level to mark a mounting hole for a bracket? I'll of course be doing all of the fitment with it down at 133W.
Awesome suggestions guys.
 

Brct203

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 24, 2016
1,065
1,050
Connecticut
I thought that the scalar design was different for offset vs prime focus dishes and LNBs were pretty much the same.
Correct me on that one.
you are correct, if using LNB and scalar as separate items (like in the old days), the LNB would be the same regardless of what scalar you attach. But in the case of Ku, LNBFs include a scalar that is conical in shape, with stepped rings, and the whole thing is enclosed in the plastic cap in the front of the LNBF. However, as our friend RimaNTSS pointed out, it's also possible to find flange LNBs and scalars that are made for prime focus. They might work better in this type of setup. Unfortunately they are also quite harder to find in North America and more expensive. With the regular LNBF, you can add Ku to your BUD for $15-20, including a quality LNBF like a Maverick or GeoSatPro. I believe Invacom makes a prime Focus LNBF, I have never tried it though.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
Alrightey. I zipped through the FTA section for the latest greatest LNBF for Ku.
Since I'm pretty much a geek I'm hoping to get things narrowed down to make the plunge.
A few more bucks doesn't matter if I'll be able to receive more signals.
Maverick, GeoSatPro, or Invacom? Which models of each would be best?
How about a quickie on universal or standard? Does universal need a slab if I want to hunt sats?
I'll only need 1 port unless 2 are needed for a universal to be universal.
And what about those FSS sats? Anything out there of interest to even be interested in?
I have a couple of GeoSat 22KHz switches hanging around. Best placed at the LNB's or at the receiver indoors?
There are 2 coax cables running to the dish and both are in great shape.
Using an Os Mio 4K.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
Alrightey. I zipped through the FTA section for the latest greatest LNBF for Ku.
Since I'm pretty much a geek I'm hoping to get things narrowed down to make the plunge.
A few more bucks doesn't matter if I'll be able to receive more signals.
Maverick, GeoSatPro, or Invacom? Which models of each would be best?
How about a quickie on universal or standard? Does universal need a slab if I want to hunt sats?
I'll only need 1 port unless 2 are needed for a universal to be universal.
And what about those FSS sats? Anything out there of interest to even be interested in?
I have a couple of GeoSat 22KHz switches hanging around. Best placed at the LNB's or at the receiver indoors?
There are 2 coax cables running to the dish and both are in great shape.
Using an Os Mio 4K.
Oh yeah Seeing as how my C Band LNB is sticking out so much will I have to mount a Ku closer to the throat or do they focus further back?
And about universal vs standard. There are a few dead links here on the subject and YouTube is full of those infomercial speaking Brits and broken English Hindi dudes. Annoying.
Will a universal do everything a standard will and more? Or are they 2 different animals?

Lets say I fashioned up a tap to monitor Inmarsat on my SDR. Or other cool things like that. Would a universal be a plus or a big PITA?
 

Brct203

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 24, 2016
1,065
1,050
Connecticut
Oh yeah Seeing as how my C Band LNB is sticking out so much will I have to mount a Ku closer to the throat or do they focus further back?
And about universal vs standard. There are a few dead links here on the subject and YouTube is full of those infomercial speaking Brits and broken English Hindi dudes. Annoying.
Will a universal do everything a standard will and more? Or are they 2 different animals?

Lets say I fashioned up a tap to monitor Inmarsat on my SDR. Or other cool things like that. Would a universal be a plus or a big PITA?
I think Inmarsat might be Ka? or maybe still some L-Band like in the 90's?

As for standard vs universal, well I don't know how much you already know, so i'll go from the basics, no offense intended.

the Ku band used by telecommunication satellites is 10.7 to 12.750 GHz. Most of the world use the whole band. But in North America (USA, Canada) we mostly use the upper half, and to make things even worse, the upper quarter (12.2 to 12.75) is dedicated to high-power direct-to-home services like Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell and Shaw Direct. The remaining quarter (11.7 to 12.2 GHz) is used by medium-power satellites, and that's where most of the FTA channels are and that band is often referred to as the "Standard Ku band" by North American enthusiasts. Note that there are exceptions, with some Shaw Direct Transponders in the lower half of the Ku band on 107W.

The rest of the world mostly uses the entire Ku band. That includes Mexico and the Caribbean.

Now, the FTA receivers can tune in frequencies between 950 and 2050 MHz, obviously that does not match the frequencies of the Ku band, and also that's a range of only 1100 MHz while the Ku band is 2050 MHz wide. The trick? Frequency translation, using a Local Oscillator (LO) in the LNB(F). And the other trick? using 2 different, switchable LOs to cover the entire Ku band.

A universal LNB uses LOs of 9750 MHz and 10600 MHz, and the switching is done with a 22kHz tone, just like your 22kHz switch.
But for regular US use, there's no need to have that extra complication, and "standard" LNBs use a single 10750 MHz LO, with no switching.

I mentioned above that Mexico and Caribbean islands use the entire Ku band. and depending on where you are in the US or Canada, you might be able to get some signals that were intended for those areas. Examples of services in lower Ku band (requiring a Universal LNB):
-15W more than 300 encrypted channels from Latin America, with occasionaly some that go in the clear. A few FTA channels, but we get the same on 97W, so not particularly interesting
-30W Hispasat 30W6 has transponders in lower Ku. No video there for now
- 34.5W - service to the French islands in the Caribbean, easy to receive in the US northeast
- 45W - China Radio International on the US-Europe-Africa beam
61W - some occasional feeds and test patterns on Amazonas
- 65W - testing under way for a service to the Caribbean, currently with a few channels in the clear, also easy here in the northeast
- 67W - i believe there might be dome FTA stuff there, but i'm way outside of its footprint
- 78W- no defunct, but there was some weak channel at some point, from Venezuela
- 117W- for those in the South, I think there might be a few Mexican channels there in lower Ku band
- in the extreme US northeast, and Canada's Maritime provinces, for those with a very unobstructed eastern horizon, there should be some Italian channels on 3W in the upper part of the Ku band above 12.2 GHz, on the western edge of the Europe beam.
For all those services, a universal LNB is needed.
If none of those interest you, a standard LNB(F) is sufficient. Many folks here are perfectly happy with a standard LNB. But since I'm in a area where lower-band Ku services are available, I much prefer using a universal LNBF since it does what a standard LNBF does , and more.

The only drawbacks with using a universal LNBF are:
- on some receivers, longer blind scan time as it has a wider spectrum to scan
- can't use a 22kHz switch since there's already one in the LNB(F). Instead, use a DiSeQc switch.

Standard and Universal LNBFs cost about the same. GeoSatPro is a great brand for both types. Maverick is great too (Standard LNBF only?). I also have some Inverto LNBFs but those are not normally sold in North America (I bought mine in France).
 
  • Like
Reactions: phlatwound

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
262
117
North Eastern
I think Inmarsat might be Ka? or maybe still some L-Band like in the 90's?

As for standard vs universal, well I don't know how much you already know, so i'll go from the basics, no offense intended.

the Ku band used by telecommunication satellites is 10.7 to 12.750 GHz. Most of the world use the whole band. But in North America (USA, Canada) we mostly use the upper half, and to make things even worse, the upper quarter (12.2 to 12.75) is dedicated to high-power direct-to-home services like Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell and Shaw Direct. The remaining quarter (11.7 to 12.2 GHz) is used by medium-power satellites, and that's where most of the FTA channels are and that band is often referred to as the "Standard Ku band" by North American enthusiasts. Note that there are exceptions, with some Shaw Direct Transponders in the lower half of the Ku band on 107W.

The rest of the world mostly uses the entire Ku band. That includes Mexico and the Caribbean.

Now, the FTA receivers can tune in frequencies between 950 and 2050 MHz, obviously that does not match the frequencies of the Ku band, and also that's a range of only 1100 MHz while the Ku band is 2050 MHz wide. The trick? Frequency translation, using a Local Oscillator (LO) in the LNB(F). And the other trick? using 2 different, switchable LOs to cover the entire Ku band.

A universal LNB uses LOs of 9750 MHz and 10600 MHz, and the switching is done with a 22kHz tone, just like your 22kHz switch.
But for regular US use, there's no need to have that extra complication, and "standard" LNBs use a single 10750 MHz LO, with no switching.

I mentioned above that Mexico and Caribbean islands use the entire Ku band. and depending on where you are in the US or Canada, you might be able to get some signals that were intended for those areas. Examples of services in lower Ku band (requiring a Universal LNB):
-15W more than 300 encrypted channels from Latin America, with occasionaly some that go in the clear. A few FTA channels, but we get the same on 97W, so not particularly interesting
-30W Hispasat 30W6 has transponders in lower Ku. No video there for now
- 34.5W - service to the French islands in the Caribbean, easy to receive in the US northeast
- 45W - China Radio International on the US-Europe-Africa beam
61W - some occasional feeds and test patterns on Amazonas
- 65W - testing under way for a service to the Caribbean, currently with a few channels in the clear, also easy here in the northeast
- 67W - i believe there might be dome FTA stuff there, but i'm way outside of its footprint
- 78W- no defunct, but there was some weak channel at some point, from Venezuela
- 117W- for those in the South, I think there might be a few Mexican channels there in lower Ku band
- in the extreme US northeast, and Canada's Maritime provinces, for those with a very unobstructed eastern horizon, there should be some Italian channels on 3W in the upper part of the Ku band above 12.2 GHz, on the western edge of the Europe beam.
For all those services, a universal LNB is needed.
If none of those interest you, a standard LNB(F) is sufficient. Many folks here are perfectly happy with a standard LNB. But since I'm in a area where lower-band Ku services are available, I much prefer using a universal LNBF since it does what a standard LNBF does , and more.

The only drawbacks with using a universal LNBF are:
- on some receivers, longer blind scan time as it has a wider spectrum to scan
- can't use a 22kHz switch since there's already one in the LNB(F). Instead, use a DiSeQc switch.

Standard and Universal LNBFs cost about the same. GeoSatPro is a great brand for both types. Maverick is great too (Standard LNBF only?). I also have some Inverto LNBFs but those are not normally sold in North America (I bought mine in France).
Not offended one bit. Great and detailed information. I ordered a GeoSat Pro LNB and bracket yesterday.
Treated myself to a nanoVNA while at it. If the standard LNB works out good, maybe a universal in the future to see what it can do.
You put it all in a way that's easy to grasp and understand. You know. You don't need 500HP to go to the store....but it's damned fun to know it's there.
Like mentioned I do have 22 KHz switches but also a couple of DISEqC multi port ones too.
The only fuzzy area right now is once I get geared to install the LNB is the difference in focal point in relationship to where the C Band feed throat currently is to grab the initial signal.
Do you think it would closely match, be equal to or further back?
And Thanks!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Top