Lease Program Information (Cat Fight Version):

[FlyingJ]

Guys, listen....drop it, dump it, get rid of it, stop paying for it. I don't care and the funny part is D* doesn't care either. They are using a business model that they think will work for them. This is hilarious. You guys continue to think you are so much smarter than the decision makers at D* and yet they are pulling down high six figure salaries and you guys are crying and complaining. Grow up! Go to cable (snicker) go to E* (snicker, snicker) no one gives a damn. Or better yet, don't tell anyone that you don't really own the equipment. Just repeat to yourselves every day, It's mine....It's mine and maybe you will feel better because once again it doesn't matteer if you own it or not. You act as if the equipment is an investment, it is not.

 

[pounce]

You guys continue to think you are so much smarter than the decision makers at D* and yet they are pulling down high six figure salaries and you guys are crying and complaining.

I guess you think you are smart then, huh? Better than everyone else here, huh? Any opinion counter to yours is idiotic then?


The new lease program rules and the commitment rules for subbing new equipment are too restrictive. In years past an existing customer on a month to month plan could go out and buy a receiver off ebay or new at a retailer, add it to their acccount and try it out without making any commitment. If they didn't like the box or didn't need it anymore they could just remove it from their account and sell or return the equipment. The only real cost was the sub if it was an additional receiver and any money lost on reselling/restocking etc. With the existing plan customers do not have this flexibility. If I want to try the new HD box I have to commit to it or pay what seems to be an enormous penalty. This kind of restriction makes customers unhappy. I don't think you can deny this.

I want to own my equipment. I don't care about the warranty. I've owned maybe a dozen boxes over the years and none of them have broken. I want to be able to buy a used mpeg4 HD DVR off ebay next year and sub it without commitments. The new plan eliminates the used equipment market and due to the rules on fees for broken returned equipment it also eliminates the possibility of hard drive hacks etc like we have now in the Tivo community. The entire economics has changed, but many people might not see the big picture including you.

I'll be honest, because of the new lease and equipment rules I will spend less on directv. I am looking at other options. In a marketing sense I am generally in the majority in terms of spending habbits and opinions (yes, I know this as a professional) so this means that as the existing customers who are currently unaware of the new situation become aware there will be some level of backlash. You think because the Directv execs make more money that the average person makes their decisions good ones? You must not work in a large Corporation.

Directv is hoping the new situation will reduce churn. But shackling customers is never a good long term strategy to reduce churn.

Now, what do I think Directv could do to eleviate some of the issues with the new plan?

1. 30 day equipment trials for existing customers. If you want to try advanced equipment or DVR's you could do that without upfront fees or commitments for 30 days. After 30 days you want to keep the equipment and commit you pay etc.
2. Optional equipment ownership. I retnetion rep did tell me you could still own equipment under the new lease plan, but that conversation happened on the 1st and I haven't seen anyone actually confirm this. If you are an existing customer you should still be able to buy the equipment for full price and own it. If you do this you should also be able to sub it without commitments.
3. Drop the damaged equipment fees after the commitment. I envision massive issues with these fees otherwise.
4. New equipment changes for existing customers under a commitment do not reset the commitement. In other words if you as a customer are already under a two year commitment and you are one year into it and want to add some new equipment you should not have your commitment reset so that you are now commited to two year from the date of the equipment change.

 

[moonman]

Pounce.....Congrats on a fine post...your points are helpfull and good ones....
Glad you did not waste your time attacking "that other poster", and instead
making good points.....My suggestion would be to have D* lease policy a opt-out
one, instead of "my way or the highway".

 

[JustBob]

Owning or not owning the equipment is a nonissue unless you bail quickly on D*. I for one could care less. Every piece of D* equipment I have ever owned I am either currently using or it is sitting in my basement collecting dust. The thought process of the equipment having value after more than 2-3 years is ridiculous. Nothing has really changed except D* is probably tired of giving away 4 rooms worth of equipment to tons of people that don't stay with them for various reasons most of which do not reflect poorly on D*. There will be deals. It is this much today and that much tomorrow. Heck, some payed close to $1000 for the HR10-250 that then cost a lot of us pretty much nothing after that Fletchlives post about the sale and rebates. Vurbano, if it makes you feel any better for now on you can have all of my old equipment . Nothing has really changed in the bottom line, except oh darn we don't "own" the equipment.

I totally agree with this post. I have 3 old boxes in my storage room collecting dust. I doubt their worth anything. It appears that this new business model will cost some people more money, such as those that try to end their agreement early. However it appears for the average customer, there will be no difference in cost. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. DirecTV will take care of the customers that they want to keep.

-JustBob

 

[dragon002]

I totally agree with this post. I have 3 old boxes in my storage room collecting dust. I doubt their worth anything. It appears that this new business model will cost some people more money, such as those that try to end their agreement early. However it appears for the average customer, there will be no difference in cost. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. DirecTV will take care of the customers that they want to keep.

-JustBob

jb,

dont forget about the early adoptors/ beta testers who want to be the first to get something. they want it now and they want it free.

they also want to be able to break the contract as they see fit.

 

[herdfan]

II want to own my equipment. I don't care about the warranty.

Same here. And I'm willing to pay for it.

But as normal for D*, they have not provided their customers with the information they need or want.

In all D* announcements for the lease program, how hard would it have been to have 2 prices, one for a lease and one for a purchase?

I don't want to buy one from D*. I want to be able to go to BB or CC and get one when I want it.

 

[mkatts]

i don't care about owning or not. But if I am going to lease something. I should not have to pay for the box up front, then have a month to month fee as well. I leased a house for many years, i didn't pay $150,000, before move in, then pay $800 a month on top of that.

 

[FlyingJ]

Hey Pounce, it is not that I think that I am smart or that these guys making this much money for what they do are smart. What I am saying is that those in power at D* have discussed these issues over and over. They didn't just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and said lets see how we can put the screws to our subs today. What looks like an incredible mistake to you has been taken into consideration (except of course when Coke decided to make New Coke). But....they didn't go into these changes blind. The business model works for them and for their plans at the moment. We know things for the most part will work themselves out. They are in it to be successful and whether that means shorterm or longterm they will decide. Once again it is up to the sub to say, no thank you and move on, accept the terms, or accept the terms and complain at the same time, which is OK too. I still don't see what the difference is and couldn't care less if I own the equipment. The financial side is the same either way, maybe better this wayif something nasty happens to the equipment.

 

[vurbano]

Guys, listen....drop it, dump it, get rid of it, stop paying for it. I don't care and the funny part is D* doesn't care either. They are using a business model that they think will work for them. This is hilarious. You guys continue to think you are so much smarter than the decision makers at D* and yet they are pulling down high six figure salaries and you guys are crying and complaining. Grow up! Go to cable (snicker) go to E* (snicker, snicker) no one gives a damn. Or better yet, don't tell anyone that you don't really own the equipment. Just repeat to yourselves every day, It's mine....It's mine and maybe you will feel better because once again it doesn't matteer if you own it or not. You act as if the equipment is an investment, it is not.

Good grief get over it and grow up!. IF you dont like the complaining go somewhere else. We all know you love the lease policy, now move on, no one gives a damn what you like.

 

[FlyingJ]

No V, no one gives a damn about anything you say about anything anymore because it hasn't changed , just a recording so ummm....bite me.

 

[dragon002]

i don't care about owning or not. But if I am going to lease something. I should not have to pay for the box up front, then have a month to month fee as well. I leased a house for many years, i didn't pay $150,000, before move in, then pay $800 a month on top of that.

you leased a house, ok. that is fine.

bet you also paid a security deposit , and first and last months lease fee up front , didnt you?

got the picture?

 

[dragon002]

Good grief get over it and grow up!. IF you dont like the complaining go somewhere else. We all know you love the lease policy, now move on, no one gives a damn what you like.

mis-place the valium??

he has an opine as do you.

come on vurbano, you have said that we have to respect your opinions, why then should "flying j" leave?:devil:

 

[FlyingJ]

The Dragon has my back! V, I didn't say I loved the lease program, I said I didn't give a damn. I like getting great equipment for the best price or no price at all. But I live in the real world. Seems you hate everything D* does so why I ask do you follow the D* boards? Is it to warn everyone about Satan? Wow, thanks for the public service, and don't call me out, it's just stupid.

 

[dragon002]

The Dragon has my back! V, I didn't say I loved the lease program, I said I didn't give a damn. I like getting great equipment for the best price or no price at all. But I live in the real world. Seems you hate everything D* does so why I ask do you follow the D* boards? Is it to warn everyone about Satan? Wow, thanks for the public service, and don't call me out, it's just stupid.

you ever watch "tombstone" with curt russell and val kilmer?

remember when wyatt asked doc why johnny ringo does what he does?? watch the movie and you will know why vurbano et al do what they do.

 

[pounce]

you leased a house, ok. that is fine.

bet you also paid a security deposit , and first and last months lease fee up front , didnt you?

got the picture?

I think you missed the point. With your example the security deposit is returned at the end of the lease.

A lease like a house lease for Directv equipment would be fine. I'd probably be OK with handing over $399 for an HD DVR initially if I knew I would get it back when the term ended and the equipment was returned.

 

[pounce]

I didn't say I loved the lease program, I said I didn't give a damn.

Now this is really an honest question and I'm not trying to bait you. Why are you posting if you don't give a damn about the topic of this thread?

 

[mkatts]

you leased a house, ok. that is fine.

bet you also paid a security deposit , and first and last months lease fee up front , didnt you?

got the picture?

That $499 is not a security deposit, or credit towards programming such as first and last months rent would be applied. You LOOSE it. No matter what. At the end of my lease, I got my whole deposit back, I did not pay twice for my last month of rent. The last month's rent I paid at the inception of the lease was applied to that. If I would have prepaid a years worth of the lease at once, I would not expect to pay a monthly fee on top of that nor would anyone else in the world.

If the $499 was a deposit I could see some sort of logic. It's not. So your post made no sense what so ever.
You should really think before you type.

 

[FlyingJ]

I didn't mean it that way. I meant that the lease program doesn't bother me. I don't mind the discussion and frankly at first glance the lease program kinda pissed me off. I then thought about the economics of it and remembered that I have at least 5 D* receivers in the basement that just got replaced as time went by and my original tivo that was blown out in an electrical storm that took out half of the electronics in my home. Just never had any resale value for any of it. I have just found that if you wait for the deals to come along...they do. Don't think that D* is out to get us.

 

[FlyingJ]

OH and Dragon...I do remember it...Great flick. Kilmer was unbelievable in that, his best ever.

 

[Satmeister]

I think you missed the point. With your example the security deposit is returned at the end of the lease.

A lease like a house lease for Directv equipment would be fine. I'd probably be OK with handing over $399 for an HD DVR initially if I knew I would get it back when the term ended and the equipment was returned.

I guess that when you lease a car, plunk down a "deposit" amount (that ISN'T returned ever), pay more money during the term of the lease than if you bought it outright day one, and also have no guarantee on what it may be worth at the end of the lease - that's a good deal, huh? Guess what - about 22% of the American public has such leases right now on their cars.

The real cost of any equipment lease arrangement is the upfront cost + equipment monthly/annual fees + maintenance - residual cost at the end.

In DirecTV terms - $499. + $143.76 (24 months @ 5.99/mo) + $0 (maintenance is include in a lease) - $0 residual (you can't keep it) = $642.76 -- which equals about $26.78 per month for 24 months.

If that's too much, don't get it.

If it's worth it to pay that to have an HD DVR with maintenance included, then get it.

Simple enough.

Those who have bought in the past paid a heck of alot more for less sophisticated (non MPEG4) HD DVRs to OWN them.

There is no right or wrong on this - its a personal choice. I would prefer to own, and have done so up to this point.