Less affluent subscribers cause of DISH woes? Say it ain't so Chuckles!!!

[AT&TDishman]

Dish Network has a lot of problems on its plate
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY
NEW YORK — When a just-launched satellite designed to transmit HDTV channels fell short of its orbit on Friday, it looked like a metaphor for several things happening lately at Dish Network (DISH).
Shares in the No. 2 satellite company, formerly known as EchoStar, have plummeted 36% since early November, closing Wednesday at $28.05.
Investors wonder whether Dish Network can soar in a slowing economy as it grapples with delays in its rollout of HDTV channels and the loss of a patent-infringement case from TiVo (TIVO).
Dish markets itself as an economical alternative to its larger rival, DirecTV (DTV). As a result, its 13.8 million subscribers tend to be less affluent, and more vulnerable to a recession.
"If you contrast EchoStar (Dish) and DirecTV, you have John Edwards' two Americas," says Kaufman Bros. analyst Todd Mitchell.

The anemic economy contributed to lower-than-expected subscription growth at the end of 2007, CEO Charlie Ergen told analysts in late February.
Another factor, though, was a delay in offering additional HDTV channels — especially from local TV stations. Dish and DirecTV already beat most cable operators in transmitting HD versions of national services such as History Channel and HGTV.
Some of the satellites that Dish needs to handle the additional HD load were delayed last year. With launches planned for 2008, the company vowed to offer at least 100 channels in 100 markets by year's end.
That's why many analysts are eager to hear more about the launch in Kazakhstan that went awry late last week. It left a satellite that Dish planned to lease in an orbit that's too low to be useful.
The satellite has enough fuel to boost itself into the proper orbit, but Dish said that might "substantially" reduce its useful life.
"You'd expect it to last 15 years," says Stifel Nicolaus' Kit Spring. "Maybe that will bring it down to 10 years."
Ergen said this week that two additional satellite launches this year mean the HD rollout "will proceed as planned." But he hopes to change TiVo's victory in a patent-infringement case that could force Dish to pay $94 million in damages.
A federal court found that Dish Network DVRs used patented technologies that enable users to watch one program while copying another. This week Dish asked an appeals court to rehear the case, alleging that an expert witness for TiVo had contradicted himself. TiVo said in a statement that this "was expected, and we remain confident we will prevail in this appeal."
Dish says it now has new software that handles the same functions. "I've had it on several boxes, and I never could tell the difference," says Satellite Business News Publisher Bob Scherman.
Yet Mitchell, for one, isn't sure the new software will suffice. Dish Network is "loath to put TiVo in their (DVR) boxes," he says.
"But they will have to come to some licensing agreement, and that will be expensive."

 

[darrencp22]

I have never thought E is that much less expensive than D. In my case, i'm saving maybe $5 a month.. Maybe.

 

[geekboy2000]

I have never thought E is that much less expensive than D. In my case, i'm saving maybe $5 a month.. Maybe.

In my case, I went with Dish because the startup costs were lower, and I felt like overall I saved a bit of money. But, as you stated, the monthly savings over Direct can't be much. It was more about the startup package.

 

[Islandguy43]

Dish Network has a lot of problems on its plate
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY

Dish markets itself as an economical alternative to its larger rival, DirecTV (DTV). As a result, its 13.8 million subscribers tend to be less affluent, and more vulnerable to a recession.

Hmmm...last time I checked, my $$$ was green too. Now I wonder will directv be willing to take my $105 a month I spend on satellite tv, or am I forced to continue dating D* younger uglier sister E*

 

[Weezknight]

I have to say that I went with Dish because of the price. To get the channels I wanted on D* I would be paying and extra $20/month!

 

[MikeD-C05]

When you consider all the hidden fees DISH has , they are NOT less expensive than DIRECTV. THey keep adding more & more of these extra fees and they keep raising the cost of said fees every year. It is actually more economic to use Directv dvr plus pack because:



There are no extra DVR fees at 5.98 receiver. WIth DISH you have to sub to the AEP+ locals at 99.99 a month( for top 250 + all 4 premium movie packs ) to escape the extra dvr fees on all your dvr receivers. WIth DIRECTV even if you just wanted to sub to any lower programming packs and sub to as many dvrs as you want and you pay ONE dvr fee at 5.99 a month PERIOD. IF you sub to Directv's dvr plus pack or hd dvr plus pack there are no dvr fees at all.

With DIRECTV you pay for the tech fee at 9.99 and you get all the hd channels in your programming pack and there is no option to NOT have hd if you sub to an hd receiver. There is no such thing as the hd enabeling fee to not have hd at 6.00 and now gone up this year to 7.00 . DISH charges 10.00 for the comparable tech fee or hd essentials pack.

The cost of all receivers with DIRECTV are 4.99 after the first receiver no matter what kind of box you have with lease or owned. With DISH they charged you last year 5.00 for an sd box and 6.00 for an hd box. THis year it went up to 6.00 for sd and 7.00 for hd.

THen there is the phone line connection fee at 5.00 a month if you don't keep your dual tuners plugged into a land line with DISH and it doesn't exist with DIRECTV.

Then there is the cost of locals with DISH at 5.99 a month or 5.00 with a qualifying programming pack. It only cost 3.00 more for a DIRECTV subs and if no locals they charge you 3.00 less on programming packs.

The cost of external hard drives with DISH cost you a one time fee of $40.00 and covers your entire account. There is no extra fee for adding an external hard drive to your directv hd dvr .

THen the latest hike in fees is the pay per views on DISH vs DIRECTV. DISH now will charge 4.99 for an sd movie and 5.99 for an hd movie if you order from the guide. DIRECTV still charges 3.99 for an sd movie and 4.99 for an hd movie. THe cost of an hd movie prerecorded by DISH on their portion of the hard drive is now 4.99 for an sd movie- for now and 6.99 for an HD movie . THIS is ridiculous!

If you sub to AEP + locals with DISH you pay 99.99 a month and get 4 premium movie packs & with DIRECTV you get the Premier pack for 104.99 and get all 4 premium movie packs +the sports packs and now you have to pay a 5.99 dvr fee so a total of 110.98 a month. TO get all these channels with DISH you would have to add the multi-sports pack at 5.99 a month and you would pay 105.98 a month and they have no DVR FEES in the AEP. THere is a total of 5.00 difference between them in DISh's favor. Now if you wanted to sub to a dvr plus pack with DIRECTV and add just the premium movie packs without sports packs and not pay the dvr fees,would pay around 104.99 a month . So then it would cost you a dollar less than DISH. IF we are talking about hd for either company sans the extra hd packs of each company add just 10.00 to the totals. So they are about even in this regard.

But to sum it up DISH nickel and dimes and dollars you to death on all kinds of cable like fees and Directv doesn't. But if you want to sub to less programming and not get hit with dvr fees DIRECTV wins , especially if you want more dvrs than one on your account. DIRECTV dvr plus pack and hd plus pack allows you to have NO DVR fees on your account period. DISH's dvr advantage packs only covers one dvr fee and not the extra dvrs on your account . So you still pay 5.98 a month per dvr receiverafter the first dvr on your account. I think if you want the most in hd and with less extra fees and more dvr receivers on your account , you should go with DIRECTV.

I really think that the fees structure that DISH charges, pisses off many subs and causes churn. Especially since they often knock Cable because of their extra fees. Many argue that DIRECTV has the fees included in the higher cost of their programming . I would rather not have to worry about a lot of fees added to my bill every month . Especially fees I have never heard of if I didn't keep my phone or ethernet hooked up to my receivers.

 

[bayoufats]

I think in a way it will help Dish. People may not be able to afford $20 or $30 dollars to take the family out to a movie, plus the cost of gas to drive there, plus cost of pop corn etc., but they need some form of entertainment so I think they will stay home, rent a couple PPV moves maybe even HD PPV, make thier pop corn in the microwave, and there it is a night of entertainment for the family, with a savings of $25 to $50 dollars.

 

[Mike0616]

In my case, I went with Dish because the startup costs were lower, and I felt like overall I saved a bit of money. But, as you stated, the monthly savings over Direct can't be much. It was more about the startup package.

And the startup costs are probably what the analyst was commenting about in its lower cost of entry to subscription.

I had E* at one time, but went to D* for the sports coverage, even though when I compared the costs for what I actually wanted was a bit higher at D* than E*. The cost of the HD DVRs was not THAT much after you consider I will keep them till they die, which is most likely more than 3 years, as they are MPEG4 models.

 

[okiekevn]

with direct tv i would have had to pay more upfront, then more in fee's then i do with dish. i got a 722 receiver that gives me dvr in both rooms. i started with the dda200, and had no dvr fee, and no second reciever fee for my second room as the 722 controls both tv's. later on upgraded to AEP, still no dvr fees. with directtv, i would have had to pay extra for an hd-dvr upgrade, then extra for a second dvr upgrade, then pay 5.99 a month for my dvr fee's and an extra 4.99 a month for my second reciever fees. i would have paid a lot more upfront with direct, and paid more fees with direct. the only charge i see on my bill is for my AEP, hd ulitmate, and whatever ppv's i order. bayoufats is right, getting a ppv is way cheaper then going to the movies. plus i can order a pizza and have a beer while enjoying the movie. i would have to have a really big coat to sneak in a pizza and six pack at the theatres.

 

[Van]

Well as much as I used to be supportive of chucky when both he and his company were underdogs I'd say that karma is a real bitch aint it.

I went with directv this winter as it came out to be cheaper on start up ( free ) and the monthly programming is cheaper by a considerable amount for what I have in both hd and sd so I cant complain.

The title is misleading by the way, charlie isnt saying less afluent customers are the cause of a slow growth rather its a slow economy.

 

[shetaan819]

"Less affluent" - are U Kidding Me ?!!

This idiot analyst at Kaufman Bros. has this completely wrong - even if you just considered the Asian and South Asian populations that go for Dish because of their excellent international programming (Chinese & Korean which are on the basic package with no extra fee) that blows Direct out of the water, I believe he'd find the opposite is true....

 

[mike123abc]

If you just have 2 TVs and get Dish Family or AT100 Dish is cheap. One box does both TVs and you do not have to pay an additional charge. People at the minimum are probably the first to fall behind on bills when times get tough.

 

[dishcomm]

I have never thought E is that much less expensive than D. In my case, i'm saving maybe $5 a month.. Maybe.

I agree..I don't know where this writer is getting his figs to come to that conclusion.

 

[danb]

Lets see, overgeneralizing, ignorant, a hole, yuppie . I may be leaving a few out.

 

[Bulldog]

USA today has a large readership, the report although partly correct does spell doom and gloom for E* that many people will accept as fact.

D* successful launch today will further move them ahead in HD.

When you put together d*'s successful advertisements and higher new subscriber numbers, you can't help but agree that these facts show D* as a leader and E* as a follower.

 

[wh5916]

When you consider all the hidden fees DISH has , they are NOT less expensive than DIRECTV. THey keep adding more & more of these extra fees and they keep raising the cost of said fees every year.

If you just want basic SD service, which is all that I need or want, then Dish has DirecTV beat hands down when it comes to pricing--and DirecTV doesn't have a package that's even close to America's Top 100, either in content or value.

I dropped DirecTV in January 2007, after 9 years of subscribing, because of this. Will remain with Dish until $10.00 a gallon gasoline prices force me to go back to antenna reception only.

 

[skyviewmark]

From A retailer point of view this statement is right on the money. Dish has a lower credit score required to get service. The majority of sales here on Dish are Top 100 programming with One dual tuner receiver. DirecTV sales are mostly High end stuff. I don't see alot of $80 and up programming picks on Dish Network. So I have to agree that Dish is skewed toward the lower end of the customer base. Our group on here is in no way a good cross section of Normal Dish Customers. We tend to be the high end, more techy types.

 

[Scroll]

I think in a way it will help Dish. People may not be able to afford $20 or $30 dollars to take the family out to a movie, plus the cost of gas to drive there, plus cost of pop corn etc., but they need some form of entertainment so I think they will stay home, rent a couple PPV moves maybe even HD PPV, make thier pop corn in the microwave, and there it is a night of entertainment for the family, with a savings of $25 to $50 dollars.

I hear board games like Candyland are making a comeback.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Dish markets itself as an economical alternative to its larger rival, DirecTV (DTV). As a result, its 13.8 million subscribers tend to be less affluent, and more vulnerable to a recession.

Thats the biggest bunch of Bullsh!t I read all week long!

Yes, DISH Network is the cheaper alternative to Directv but to even suggest those customers signing up are of a much less quality than the ones paying a higher monthly price with Directv is a bunch of crap!

If anything, its the other way around, since the people who have money tend to make smarter business decisions and will switch service providers to save money, which is the reason why they have money in the first place.

But based upon my experence, the same customers who are signing up for DISH are also signing up for DIRECTV, its simply personal preference depending on what each provider has to best suite the customers needs.

 

[reallyniceguy]

Its very hard for dish to go down, specially since they won the fcc airwway auction. And they got tons of loyal customers. The only reason why we hear negative things is beucase really.. who complains about their good experiences.. or voices them for example here?

When i was working with them I got tons of compliments and how they would never switch. Even if dish was to lose lets say 2 million customers, they can still become competetive.