Missouri Laws SUCK!!

jpinks

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Original poster
May 15, 2009
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Missouri (Misery)
I am moving to Missouri from Kansas and have hit a big snag. Apparently I cant keep my local KC stations on my Satelite. So now I am told I will need an antenna. Antenna Web says to get the KC stations I need a Violet antenna with an amp. It says I am between 45 and 52 miles from those stations. I tried to find alternatives w Dish but they say they dont offer any Midwest time zone nationals. So my wife promptly lost it when I explained the situation to her. (Wives gotta luv em cause the only other option is life in a less pleasant place :D). What I need to know is some clear cut answers about if this is a worthwhile investment or not? If so I am totally confused by what I need. Thanks in advance JP
 
Dish doesn't offer the locals from your new location? Not sure what you mean Midwest Time zone? From what I gather, you have not changed timezones, you are still in the central time zone.

As for an antenna, to me one is worth it, worth it so much I only have an antenna and am happily not paying for TV any longer. But if you keep dish, the OTA antenna is nice and will save you monthly fees. Odds are the PQ will be better than Dish locals too

*note, I don't know the spotbeams of the locals you used to have, but there is a possibility you are stil in that spot beam and you can just "move" or keep your service address at your old address.

Btw, what does all this have to do with Missouri Laws?
 
What the Dish CSR told me was something to do with the State of Missouri. Where the Cable Co's got some deal passed that kept Satelite providers from carrying local stations. I was only given the options of NY, LA and another location for major network programing. IE not in my timezone for ABC, NBC, CBS etc. Wife not comfortable not having access to local stations for weather and emergency stuff which I can respect.
 
What the Dish CSR told me was something to do with the State of Missouri. Where the Cable Co's got some deal passed that kept Satelite providers from carrying local stations. I was only given the options of NY, LA and another location for major network programing. IE not in my timezone for ABC, NBC, CBS etc. Wife not comfortable not having access to local stations for weather and emergency stuff which I can respect.

Boy, that doesn't make sense at all.

It sounds like your house is outside the KC DMA and that DISH doersn't offer locals in your new DMA.

I would suggest you look into the many threads that explore "moving" your service address back to KC where you can get the locals you want.

Conditions: You need to be fairly close to the city you choose so that you are in the same spotbeam. You can find spotbeam maps on The List section of this site.

You need to find a valid address within the DMA to "move" to. It is generally safer to add "Apartment 345" or something as DISH will not allow two accounts at the same exact address. It can be any valid address, and several folks have successfully used the address of city hall oor the post office, by simply adding the apartment number.

DO NOT change your billing address. Explain to the CSR that the change is ONLY to the service address. Also explain that there is already a dish installed and that you don't need a service call for setup.

Do all of this after you get the service call setting stuff up at your actual address. If you ever need service, you will need to change the service address back otr the truck will try to go to city hall in KC :)

This has worked for a lot of people, and will get you what you desire. Good luck.
 
St Joe is tricky. According to FEDERAL law, not Missouri, they are indeed not inside the Kansas City DMA. A good antenna like Winegard's VHF-HI / UHF models work okay. They have two, one is 65" long, the other is more like 90, and you may need the longer. If you can live without ch9, there are less expensive, more effective UHF only antennas, like the Antennas Direct dB4 or the Channel Master 4221. You still won't get guide data on your Dish DVR, so you can't create anything but manual timers anyway.
 
And that explains it. St Joseph is its own DMA, and that one is not yet carried by DISH.

Here is a DMA mmap of Missouri.
http://www.dishuser.org/TVMarkets/Maps/missouri.gif
Ah, yeah. That would do it. But that has nothing to do with the State of Missouri. These DMAs are administered by Nielsen and federal law "protects" the stations in that DMA through the FCC, I believe.

The good news is that if you went the OTA route, it looks like a good fringe outdoor antenna with preamp would have a fairly easy time of the KC locals and, if you cared enough to get them with a rotator, perhaps some of the Topeka locals as well.

But what I don't get is this: It looks like ABC is the only major network local defined in the St. Joe DMA! So to me it would SEEM that legally you'd probably get KC locals except for ABC, since no other network affiliate would be "violated" in your DMA -- but satellite companies tend not to work that way. (I'll bet the St. Joe cable operator offers KC locals for all but ABC -- am I right?) DMAs like St. Joe are problematic for satellite operators to deal with for some reason -- you'd think they could look at the ZIP code and give you the St. Joe ABC (or NY ABC feed) and the other networks from KC -- but no...

If you are offered the east coast feed (NY locals), you might as well take it -- keep in mind that in prime time, Central and Eastern times tend to be on at the same time. If a show is "9 PM Eastern / 8 Central," the NY feed would show it at 9 PM Eastern -- but you'd see it at 8 PM Central just like you would with the KC local.

For local news, I'd imagine the St. Joe ABC would come in very well even with a modest antenna.
 
Nope they (local cable co, owns the ABC affiliate) offer ABC from KC as well. If you had ever seen the joke we have for a TV station here you would understand why nobody listens to it.
 
Nope they (local cable co, owns the ABC affiliate) offer ABC from KC as well. If you had ever seen the joke we have for a TV station here you would understand why nobody listens to it.
OK. But the bottom line is that the law apparently DOES allow KC locals where you live. Satellite providers tend to not bother with unusual situations across DMAs in smaller locations. You say you live in DMA X, and they provide DMA X or they provide nothing.

I was pretty sure the cable company would supply the KC locals for all but ABC at minimum. That alone suggests the law allows Dish to provide KC locals (at least all but ABC), because if that weren't the case, the cable company probably couldn't do so. So in reality, Dish is making an excuse because they don't want to deal with unusual cases such as yours.
 
The issue is Dish CANNOT sell pipe locals in from another area (also known as significantly viewed) due to a lost lawsuit a couple years ago

DirecTV if they carry KQ2 (the St Joe station) then probably carry KC locals too. Here in MN we have the same thing. Mankato is about 75 miles SW of Minneapolis and its own DMA with CBS (and fox on subchannel)

Dish doesnt carry it
DirecTV carries KEYC (CBS Mankato) and the other 3 come from Minneapolis

Easiest thing is to leave the physical address as what you have right now and change the billing only. I did that for 3 years
 
The issue is Dish CANNOT sell pipe locals in from another area (also known as significantly viewed) due to a lost lawsuit a couple years ago
Isn't it an all or nothing thing with them? I can see in this case why they couldn't give the KC local for ABC, but if they couldn't do it for other networks when there are no "local" affiliates in the St. Joe DMA for the other networks, then the law is, IMO, broken.

I always figured it was merely a matter of the satellite providers deciding that if they couldn't provide all the locals from the subscribers DMA within that DMA, then they get nothing (and if they qualify on the Grade B Contour criterion, they could get distant locals). That's consistent with the way they operate: with cable, many people on the "border" of two DMAs can get two locals for each network if they live in an area which can reasonably get both of them with an antenna ("substantially viewed"). With satellite, you get whatever the DMA should get and nothing else. And in this case, that means only ONE major network affiliate. Is it really the LAW preventing these (cable can do it), or is it just satellite willing to write off a small segment of the population faced with this conundrum?

If it *is* the law, then the law really sucks. If cable can offer some KC locals in this area when satellite is prohibited by law from doing so, then there are some Congressfolks in the pocket of the cable companies.
 
Isn't it an all or nothing thing with them? I can see in this case why they couldn't give the KC local for ABC, but if they couldn't do it for other networks when there are no "local" affiliates in the St. Joe DMA for the other networks, then the law is, IMO, broken.
Dish lost the ability to sell ANY local outside of the DMA even if in some cases they could a while back. Dish cannot sell distants either. So basically if Dish carries your locals you get just those even if its two or 3 of the Big 4. The exception is PBS. Dish can sell the nationwide PBS to markets that dont have a PBS.

I always figured it was merely a matter of the satellite providers deciding that if they couldn't provide all the locals from the subscribers DMA within that DMA, then they get nothing (and if they qualify on the Grade B Contour criterion, they could get distant locals). That's consistent with the way they operate: with cable, many people on the "border" of two DMAs can get two locals for each network if they live in an area which can reasonably get both of them with an antenna ("substantially viewed"). With satellite, you get whatever the DMA should get and nothing else. And in this case, that means only ONE major network affiliate. Is it really the LAW preventing these (cable can do it), or is it just satellite willing to write off a small segment of the population faced with this conundrum?

If it *is* the law, then the law really sucks. If cable can offer some KC locals in this area when satellite is prohibited by law from doing so, then there are some Congressfolks in the pocket of the cable companies.
cable has different rules. The rules with cable are "pick it up OTA then you can carry it". I saw that at our cabin. Cabin is 120 miles north of Minneapolis and 90 miles west of Duluth, MN. Cable company there carried ABC & NBC from BOTH Minneapolis and Duluth. The county is in the Mpls DMA. A year or so ago they dropped Duluth ABC & NBC from cable. They said to offer more channels (ie: public access) but right after that the two translators that serves the county for NBC & ABC Duluth shut down and the license turned back in...coincidence????
(by the way...no way they could get a clean picture of those stations without the translators being 5 miles away)

Satellite has sig viewed rules too according to a FCC document but Dish lost that ability due to the court case. Basically Dish was allowing people to sub to both locals & distants when they didnt qualify for them. So they lost the ability to provide locals from outside the area even if you qualified legally.

In most cases, Directv carries the locals from an area and if there is not the full slate of locals (the big 4) the rest are piped in via a neighboring market. Below is a good example (I'm using Mankato again)

KEYC is the CBS in Mankato
KSTP, KARE, KMSP are from Minneapolis
The others are national feeds

cable carried WCCO (CBS) out of Minneapolis too. In some areas where a cable system carries more than one affiliate, the "local" one can ask for exclusive rights. In Mankato they carry both Fox Mankato (the subchannel that KEYC has) and KMSP from Minneapolis. KEYC has asked for exclusive Fox rights so when there is any national program on (primetime & sports), KMSP has to be blacked out on cable
 

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Here is the deal. It s**ks.

First, this has nothing to do with the state of Missouri. Its a matter of federal law.

Federal law allows DBS to provide "your" locals. What "your" locals are is based on a complex survey by the Nielsen Company and is based on county lines. Federal law also allows "distant locals" (esentually NY and LA stations) if you live outside the "Grade B" (the area where you could receive a signal with an antenna, theoretically) area of a station with a particular network.

Now St. Joseph is its own TV market, with only one station (ABC). Its the 201st market (out of 212) and thus not worth the trouble for DBS.

Cable operates under different rules and can import Kansas City signals. DBS cannot. Its unfair, anti-competitive, and wrong.

Write your congressman.
 

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