Professional baseball in south Florida last chance...
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Well, here is what happened. We had ONE City Commissioner out due to maternity leave and so that gave them 5. Perfect way to break the tie if there was one. Well, it WAS a tie and it got to County Commissioner douche nozzle, Marc Sarnoff LAST MINUTE of how the county and the city is getting hosed was SO AVOIDABLE it was nothing but basic political grandstanding. ALL the commissioners got all the financial info almost 8 weeks ago. They could have EASILY sat with the Marlins and said, "we don't like this....." and a compromise would have been reached and a vote would have never been needed by the city commissioners because they would have gotten more of what they and ALL of south Florida wanted, a better deal financially AND a new baseball stadium....
...but nnnnnooooooooooooo.................
Not ONLY this moron insist to go LAST in the voting, but he also ripped the Marlins as if ALL the financial info was brand new to him. WHAT AN A$$HOLE!!!! Now again, the deal had WAY TOO MANY holes...but that ALL could have been negociated WAY before this vote. NOW, with Sarnoff not casting a voted....it ended 2-2 and given until March 12th for another political showboat that is the City of Miami Commissioners Office.
Here is a DEAD ON view from the Miami Herald beat write that covers local politics:
MARLINS STADIUM ISSUE ON HOLD
Sarnoff's blitz may help get a fair stadium plan
Words such as ''grandstanding,'' ''ambush'' and ''extortion'' have such pejorative connotations, you hate to see them attached to the side you favor in an argument.
Except Friday. Although it only delayed the inevitable, Miami City Commissioner Marc Sarnoff's grandstanding and ambush of the Marlins on the day of the commission's stadium plan vote might actually extort some fairness out of this pending civic mistake.
And it amused to no end that we get a team from one of the major leagues as stunned victim. No matter the sport, extortion by threat of relocation and reneging on deals struck with local governments have become standard negotiating tactics among those in the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, and even the NHL.
True, the issues Sarnoff brought up could have been addressed weeks ago. Doing it the way he did, however, puts him in the heroic light to the No Stadium types and throws light on a few holes in the potential stadium agreement.
Marlins fans shouldn't rend their teal garments over Friday's doings. On March 12, this stadium deal will get voted through, no matter how little the stadium will be used (Dolphin Stadium still will be better for stadium concerts and most other sporting events); the paucity and lethargy of the Marlins' fan base despite two World Series titles in their 16 seasons; and the fact that most arenas and stadiums are sold as helping the slumping, surrounding area boost only the team's semi-slumping bottom line.
Also is the fact that much of the local money comes from tourism taxes. Without some more hurricane-free seasons in a recovered economy, tourism might be a slimmed-down cash cow down the line.
Details, details. Longtime South Floridians know how things often work down here. The Marlins will give some publicly and give a little more privately. An agreement will be reached that allows all parties to save face. Those saved faces will smile beneath construction helmets at a ground-breaking. The anti-stadium crowd will snarl, then slink into a seething slumber until the day when the financial numbers allow them to roar an exasperated, ``I told you so!''
Also, remember Major League Baseball's a powerful entertainment cartel that desperately wants to keep a team in the nation's No. 16 television market (Miami-Fort Lauderdale) and within weekend striking range of No. 38 (West Palm Beach-Fort Pierce).
FOOL'S THINKING
Aside from all of that, facts and rationality have little chance against emotion and nostalgia, even nostalgia for what never was. As the Doobie Brothers sang, ``What a fool believes.''
Some of Sarnoff's blitz made sense. Take the issue of cost overruns. Few large scale projects come in under budget. Down here, such projects become a construction version of eating ice cream cones with your preschooler on a summer day -- always much more fuss and muss than expected. I wouldn't trust a South Florida builder to put up a tent on time, much less a stadium complex.
When the time and money cups runneth way over, it's absurd to think the Marlins should be allowed to just tap their feet impatiently like an umpire through the third pitching change in the eighth inning. Make the team get its hands out of those soon-to-be well-lined pockets and pony up the cash.
Sarnoff going after potential sale profits also smacks of fairness. Why shouldn't the city and county put in provisions to prevent Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria from cashing out for private profits once public dollars boost the value of his franchise? Or, rather, if he does cash out, making him give a significant cut to those whose financing helped to make his franchise viable in its current location? Not that the money will be spent wisely beyond servicing the stadium debt, but this is about being a deterrent.
On the other hand, Sarnoff's demand for 100 percent of the naming rights not only doesn't sound kosher, but sounds like something he's thrown out there just to have something to take off the table in the next month of negotiations. Without the Marlins' presence and visibility, having a name and logo on the stadium wouldn't be worth a sawbuck.
HOW IT'S BUILT
As it is these days, naming rights aren't an easy sell. There are Dolphin Stadium folks who have been trying to peddle naming rights to the next Super Bowl site. The value decreases each day you can't hear (Corporate Name Here) Stadium, home of Super Bowl XLIV. Notice the Dolphins' workplace is still named Dolphin Stadium.
Anyway, whatever the future Marlin Tank will be called, hopefully it'll be built under a more equitable arrangement than went before City of Miami commissioners Friday. If not, at least we got another memorable moment out from the ever-amusing world of South Florida politics
Sarnoff's blitz may help get a fair stadium plan - Baseball - MiamiHerald.com
...but nnnnnooooooooooooo.................
Not ONLY this moron insist to go LAST in the voting, but he also ripped the Marlins as if ALL the financial info was brand new to him. WHAT AN A$$HOLE!!!! Now again, the deal had WAY TOO MANY holes...but that ALL could have been negociated WAY before this vote. NOW, with Sarnoff not casting a voted....it ended 2-2 and given until March 12th for another political showboat that is the City of Miami Commissioners Office.
Here is a DEAD ON view from the Miami Herald beat write that covers local politics:
MARLINS STADIUM ISSUE ON HOLD
Sarnoff's blitz may help get a fair stadium plan
Words such as ''grandstanding,'' ''ambush'' and ''extortion'' have such pejorative connotations, you hate to see them attached to the side you favor in an argument.
Except Friday. Although it only delayed the inevitable, Miami City Commissioner Marc Sarnoff's grandstanding and ambush of the Marlins on the day of the commission's stadium plan vote might actually extort some fairness out of this pending civic mistake.
And it amused to no end that we get a team from one of the major leagues as stunned victim. No matter the sport, extortion by threat of relocation and reneging on deals struck with local governments have become standard negotiating tactics among those in the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, and even the NHL.
True, the issues Sarnoff brought up could have been addressed weeks ago. Doing it the way he did, however, puts him in the heroic light to the No Stadium types and throws light on a few holes in the potential stadium agreement.
Marlins fans shouldn't rend their teal garments over Friday's doings. On March 12, this stadium deal will get voted through, no matter how little the stadium will be used (Dolphin Stadium still will be better for stadium concerts and most other sporting events); the paucity and lethargy of the Marlins' fan base despite two World Series titles in their 16 seasons; and the fact that most arenas and stadiums are sold as helping the slumping, surrounding area boost only the team's semi-slumping bottom line.
Also is the fact that much of the local money comes from tourism taxes. Without some more hurricane-free seasons in a recovered economy, tourism might be a slimmed-down cash cow down the line.
Details, details. Longtime South Floridians know how things often work down here. The Marlins will give some publicly and give a little more privately. An agreement will be reached that allows all parties to save face. Those saved faces will smile beneath construction helmets at a ground-breaking. The anti-stadium crowd will snarl, then slink into a seething slumber until the day when the financial numbers allow them to roar an exasperated, ``I told you so!''
Also, remember Major League Baseball's a powerful entertainment cartel that desperately wants to keep a team in the nation's No. 16 television market (Miami-Fort Lauderdale) and within weekend striking range of No. 38 (West Palm Beach-Fort Pierce).
FOOL'S THINKING
Aside from all of that, facts and rationality have little chance against emotion and nostalgia, even nostalgia for what never was. As the Doobie Brothers sang, ``What a fool believes.''
Some of Sarnoff's blitz made sense. Take the issue of cost overruns. Few large scale projects come in under budget. Down here, such projects become a construction version of eating ice cream cones with your preschooler on a summer day -- always much more fuss and muss than expected. I wouldn't trust a South Florida builder to put up a tent on time, much less a stadium complex.
When the time and money cups runneth way over, it's absurd to think the Marlins should be allowed to just tap their feet impatiently like an umpire through the third pitching change in the eighth inning. Make the team get its hands out of those soon-to-be well-lined pockets and pony up the cash.
Sarnoff going after potential sale profits also smacks of fairness. Why shouldn't the city and county put in provisions to prevent Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria from cashing out for private profits once public dollars boost the value of his franchise? Or, rather, if he does cash out, making him give a significant cut to those whose financing helped to make his franchise viable in its current location? Not that the money will be spent wisely beyond servicing the stadium debt, but this is about being a deterrent.
On the other hand, Sarnoff's demand for 100 percent of the naming rights not only doesn't sound kosher, but sounds like something he's thrown out there just to have something to take off the table in the next month of negotiations. Without the Marlins' presence and visibility, having a name and logo on the stadium wouldn't be worth a sawbuck.
HOW IT'S BUILT
As it is these days, naming rights aren't an easy sell. There are Dolphin Stadium folks who have been trying to peddle naming rights to the next Super Bowl site. The value decreases each day you can't hear (Corporate Name Here) Stadium, home of Super Bowl XLIV. Notice the Dolphins' workplace is still named Dolphin Stadium.
Anyway, whatever the future Marlin Tank will be called, hopefully it'll be built under a more equitable arrangement than went before City of Miami commissioners Friday. If not, at least we got another memorable moment out from the ever-amusing world of South Florida politics
Sarnoff's blitz may help get a fair stadium plan - Baseball - MiamiHerald.com
Same question could be asked for EVERY SINGLE OWNER of ANY professional sport. If I am not mistaken, the ONLY owner to build his own stadium was Joe Robbie of the Miami Dolphins when he built what is now Dolphins Stadium. That is why the Dolphins are one of the most expensive franchises in ALL of sports. IF they buy them, you get the stadium too....NO CITY or STATE involvement what's so ever.
I live in S Miami and have been a Marlins fan since its start in 1993, Miami is a bush town plain and simple. Harv
I think the politics down here is about the dirtiest I have ever seen! AND I have lived in NYC and Chicago.....
This is the Walter O'Malley syndrome. "You build me a stadium for my team to play in." O'Malley and the City Council of Los Angeles are the ones to blame for this taxpayer build the stadium delima. Words can not discribe how much I hate that man for what he did to the people of Brooklyn. I am sure it is pretty HOT where he is now. :dev :dev :dev
I disbelieve all of these "economic impact" statements. They just take some theory that a dollar rolls over 1000 times after being spent and that people going to games eat out and buy $200 worth of crap. While I can see how an event that draws regionally or nationally people into a smaller place, such as college football or NASCAR has a big impact, people going to Miami baseball games live in Miami. If they did not spend their money on the game, they would spend it on something else.
Where are the Marlins going to go? Its pretty easy to dismiss every alternative. Las Vegas. Vancouver. Portland. Montreal.
Where are the Marlins going to go? Its pretty easy to dismiss every alternative. Las Vegas. Vancouver. Portland. Montreal.
Great post! The ONLY issue that scares me is that IF the Marlins do not get their stadium....they could fill the stadium for every game...and every time they have a superstar in the making through the farm system, it's a SURE BET that they won't "able to aford them" and trade them away....
Miami commission OKs ballpark plans
BY CHARLES RABIN
crabin@MiamiHerald.com
The Florida Marlins won their biggest vote in franchise history Thursday when Miami commissioners approved building a new stadium in a 3-2 vote.
Supporting the stadium: Joe Sanchez, Angel Gonzalez and Michelle Spence-Jones, the swing vote. Against: Marc Sarnoff and Tomás Regalado.
Also approved, by a 4-1 vote, was a bid waiver for a private contractor to work around the facility. The super majority was required for the bid waiver, and Sarnoff joined the majority. The final issue before the commission, dealing with an inter-local agreement, passed unanimously. The approval drew a round of applause from project supporters.
The stadium's approval keeps the project alive -- and facing a final vote before county commissioners Monday.
The vote came after more than four hours of discussion and public input on the city of Miami's share of the Florida Marlins plan to build the team the permanent home it has craved for a decade.
Earlier in the day, 73 people took to the podium arguing for and against the $634 million stadium and parking facility plan. Most -- many unemployed construction workers -- wanted the stadium built after hearing promises of jobs, jobs, jobs.
Others expressed concerns that the stadium's cost would skyrocket with the markets in such trouble, leaving their children, and in some cases grandchildren, to foot the bill.
The day began amid dueling protests outside and with a packed chamber inside.
Almost half an hour after the meeting was to start at 9 a.m., Marlins representatives -- including team President David Samson -- were still working the hallways to secure final votes.
Now the stadium's fate is in the hands of Miami-Dade County Commissioners on Monday, for the final showdown in the franchise's decade-long search for a permanent home.
Miami Commission OK's Florida Marlins stadium - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
I am SO divided on this....I WANT a new baseball stadium here so badly, but there is SO MUCH need he in Miami....
BY CHARLES RABIN
crabin@MiamiHerald.com
The Florida Marlins won their biggest vote in franchise history Thursday when Miami commissioners approved building a new stadium in a 3-2 vote.
Supporting the stadium: Joe Sanchez, Angel Gonzalez and Michelle Spence-Jones, the swing vote. Against: Marc Sarnoff and Tomás Regalado.
Also approved, by a 4-1 vote, was a bid waiver for a private contractor to work around the facility. The super majority was required for the bid waiver, and Sarnoff joined the majority. The final issue before the commission, dealing with an inter-local agreement, passed unanimously. The approval drew a round of applause from project supporters.
The stadium's approval keeps the project alive -- and facing a final vote before county commissioners Monday.
The vote came after more than four hours of discussion and public input on the city of Miami's share of the Florida Marlins plan to build the team the permanent home it has craved for a decade.
Earlier in the day, 73 people took to the podium arguing for and against the $634 million stadium and parking facility plan. Most -- many unemployed construction workers -- wanted the stadium built after hearing promises of jobs, jobs, jobs.
Others expressed concerns that the stadium's cost would skyrocket with the markets in such trouble, leaving their children, and in some cases grandchildren, to foot the bill.
The day began amid dueling protests outside and with a packed chamber inside.
Almost half an hour after the meeting was to start at 9 a.m., Marlins representatives -- including team President David Samson -- were still working the hallways to secure final votes.
Now the stadium's fate is in the hands of Miami-Dade County Commissioners on Monday, for the final showdown in the franchise's decade-long search for a permanent home.
Miami Commission OK's Florida Marlins stadium - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
I am SO divided on this....I WANT a new baseball stadium here so badly, but there is SO MUCH need he in Miami....
Congratulations, Salsa.
Someday, you'll be able to see these young and entertaining fish in a nice, new stadium- hopefully with a big crowd.
May I suggest they have a pool in the outfield? Florida is known for having waterparks.
Someday, you'll be able to see these young and entertaining fish in a nice, new stadium- hopefully with a big crowd.
May I suggest they have a pool in the outfield? Florida is known for having waterparks.
Good news Salsa. Is this an open air facility?
BTW, What's with Tampa Bay and their plans? From the plans I saw, they had aspirations to build a beautiful park, but I haven't heard anything in a while. The Rays as we all know could use a new stadium more so than any other MLB team I can think of.
BTW, What's with Tampa Bay and their plans? From the plans I saw, they had aspirations to build a beautiful park, but I haven't heard anything in a while. The Rays as we all know could use a new stadium more so than any other MLB team I can think of.
Thanks guys! Like I said, I am VERY torn about all of this. Miami-Dade's city school district is one of the biggest in the country and one of the district that is in the most desperate need. Hell, they are even talking about cutting some sports from the high schools in Broward county(which is the county directly north of us)....and seeing that we are in a era of "monkey see-monkey do", if it had ANY hint of success, Miami-Dade and all surrounding counties will follow.
On the other hand, IF the Marlins do not get a stadium, the team will be eliminated. In this economy, NO ONE will take the burden of a new team AND finance a new ball park. I also HATE that owners put cities in a bind where they hold cities and states hostage, just so some rich owner can make a ton of money. Because let's be honest, in this age of pseudo revenue sharing that the MLB has, no owner really loses money.
This stadium can bring alot of businesses to an area that desperately needs it.
DAMN I hate politics!!!!!
According to Wiki (that is a disclaimer) the Miami park is a retractable roof and the Tampa Bay park is on "indefinate hold".
While Tampa's park was designed in somewhat different era, IMHO the worst park left in the Majors with nothing being done about it is in Oakland.
I take a real hard line against a team who wishes to use taxpayer dollars to fund their private projects. I look at it the same way I look at a politician who takes earmarks.
Well...technically, they are using hotel taxes an not tax payer money. But that is to assume that the hotel business will BOOM and considering how the economy is, you cannot be assured of ANYTHING. But I am in total agreement with you!
TODAY is the day. IF the county passes, then it is in!
I was never against the new ball park in Pittsburgh, the problem I had, and I don't know if the Marlin's owner said this, if so be careful, that with the new stadium, the pirates will be able to afford better players, get more free agents, be more competitive.
I'm still waiting.
I was never against the new ball park in Pittsburgh, the problem I had, and I don't know if the Marlin's owner said this, if so be careful, that with the new stadium, the pirates will be able to afford better players, get more free agents, be more competitive.
I'm still waiting.
They ALL say that. But with the current economy, and Miami-Dade county having one of the most underfunded school districts IN THE COUNTRY....it is tough to swallow giving into MORE than half a BILLION to a rich owner who might sell the team 3 years after getting the new stadium and making a HUGE profit at the county's expense! I remember when Mr. D***head Reisndorf, owner of the White Sox holding the city of Chicago hostage for a new stadium and teasing por Tampa Bay area(before they got the Rays) about moving there....that left a VERY biitter taste in my mouth and solidified my hate for the owners. Under the current 'imaginery luxury tax' system...NO OWNER loses money. They don't make as much as the Red Sox, Mets, Yankees of this world. So there are no REAL losers of money....
I agree, the Pirates now how to run a team without losing money.
They are good businessmen, but terrible owners.
I'd love to have them here in Orlando. I always felt Orlando could draw from the tourists (high traffic theory) as we get tons of folks from NL cities anyways. Put up a retractable roof park and you have a stable base of visiting fans until you grow your Orlando market. We keep talking here about a viable answer to the aging Citrus Bowl, I wonder if it's possible to come up with a suitable covered facility to house both baseball and football. Not wanting to go to the cookie cutter multi-purpose stadiums of the past, but a modern place that would have a ballpark feel for about 40,000 and the ability to hold another 20,000 for football. Put them near the tourist/convention center with it's major roadways and multitude of hotels, I think it would work. But the fly in the ointment would be the Rays, who claim this area as their market, even if they insist on staying in St. Pete, which adds another 45 minutes drive from Orlando. A new Rays park in Tampa (especially east Tampa )is much more attractive to the Orlando fan. Of course this will never happen, so I'm really hoping South Florida keeps the Marlins so we Floridians don't lose them altogether. In a perfect world, sport leagues finance their own stadiums.
My two cents.
My two cents.
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