Professional Installers out there....I'm Desperate for Help

[Bill1955]

Please, please, I'm hoping some of you professional D* installers out there can help. I've posted so many times in the last few weeks you all must be sick of me, but the saga continues and I am repeating myself. I hope you will bear with me. I am very frustrated and so are the installers working on my problems.

This is where I am. We had a HD receiver, TIVO unit and Phase III dish with built-in multiswitch installed about a month ago. Right after the install we could not get Sat. 119. We had a LOS problem. We cut some trees and got a signal on all of 119's ODD transponders. Strong signal on the ODD transponders over 70 up to 90 signals. We called D* and they sent out a tech. He said he thought it was a receiver problem because we had a strong signal. Got new receiver Friday night, installed it. Had the EVEN transponders on 119 for about 10 minutes and they disappeared. D* shuttled me all over the place. Finally the higher level tech service said they were sending out a DIFFERENT technician. He was at my house all morning. Replaced the LNB, replaced the cabling, replaced the grounding block. We did not replace the inside wiring because neither receiver (HD or TIVO) can get the EVEN transponders on 119. They are now saying that they would like to do some research on this problem, they have never had this issue before. They have been really great and I'm not complaining about the installers at all. But they need help, we need help. Does anyone have experience with this issue? It seems it all boils down to why do we get strong signals on the ODD transponders of Sat. 119 and NO signal on the EVEN transponders of Sat. 119.

Thank you for any thoughts you might have.

 

[lurch]

i've run into something like this before.It might be a bad ground to that electrical outlet your plugged into.are the tivo,and hd on the same tv?Could be a splitter in line causing your problems,if they didnt replaced the inside wires.

 

[camachinist]

Why don't they just bypass all the cables and set up right at the dish? Then, if OK, work their way back inside one cable set at a time. How long is your total cable run, including the inside wiring? What kind of inside cable do you have (brand and sweep)? Has all the unreplaced cabling been tested?

Not an installer, but pretty experienced with RF (ham/shortwave).

Hopefully one of the resident install gurus will be along to help you out. I'm in the middle of one myself right now.

Pat

 

[boba]

Polarity switching on Directv is voltage controlled have they checked the voltage getting to the switch at the dish?

 

[Bill1955]

i've run into something like this before.It might be a bad ground to that electrical outlet your plugged into.are the tivo,and hd on the same tv?Could be a splitter in line causing your problems,if they didnt replaced the inside wires.

HD and Tivo are plugged into different outlets, different TV's.........I have several splitters, but they are after the receivers not before......would this make a difference?

 

[Bill1955]

Why don't they just bypass all the cables and set up right at the dish? Then, if OK, work their way back inside one cable set at a time. How long is your total cable run, including the inside wiring? What kind of inside cable do you have (brand and sweep)? Has all the unreplaced cabling been tested?

I thought that would be a good idea too......not sure why they haven't yet, except it might be hard getting that 55 inch sony up on the roof (just joking) All cabling was done by the installer, its brand new, don't know what brand it is...........all inside cabling was new.

 

[Bill1955]

Polarity switching on Directv is voltage controlled have they checked the voltage getting to the switch at the dish?

I don't THINK they've done this.....is it something I can do? and how would I do it?

 

[mcbeevee]

To make sure my dish/lnb/multi-switch were working properly, I setup a receiver and a 13" tv outside. Then I just dropped a RG-6 cable directly from the dish to the receiver. If everything works with this method, that means it is an inside problem (coax wiring/electrical/???). If not, the problem is at the dish/lnb/multi-switch.

 

[camachinist]

To make sure my dish/lnb/multi-switch were working properly, I setup a receiver and a 13" tv outside. Then I just dropped a RG-6 cable directly from the dish to the receiver. If everything works with this method, that means it is an inside problem (coax wiring/electrical/???). If not, the problem is at the dish/lnb/multi-switch.

You oughta be a professional installer. I can't count the times the pro's overlook the obvious.

All cabling was done by the installer, its brand new, don't know what brand it is...........all inside cabling was new.

Your OP made it sound like the house was pre-wired by the builder or yourself. Is this correct? FWIW, new cable can be bad, and new installations can be faulty. I've done a few myself Also, someone (if you didn't do the job) could've put RG-59 behind the walls and you wouldn't know about it unless a piece was exposed for ID. It doesn't work well (or at all) for sat apps.

I'd likely use our little 9" portable RV TV and an extra receiver and start at the dish and move inside, connection by connection. You'll find the problem

Pat

 

[dragon002]

bill 1955,

sorry to say this but,,,,,

you are getting the 101 on all tsp at above 85+ ?

these guys are saying wiring? NO

the 101,119 are both on the same coax and have the same power sats

proffessional opinion? you still have a line of site issue

i have installed in very tight places where even the 18 inch dish was 87 plus on the odds and getting 60 on the evens.

may be the tilt but i doubt it after two techs being there

dragon

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

I think it's a bad ground on a coax connector somewhere. A continuity check on every circuit will prove where the problem is.

-Robert

 

[dragon002]

robert, he is getting the 101 same dish, same coax, they changed the phase 3 lnb and the irds, again he is getting the 101 , line of sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dragon

 

[TYORK]

sound like to me there is a spiltter somewhere inline before the receiver or the is a stinger touching the copper the at the connector.

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

How could a line of site issue block only the even transponders?

-Robert

 

[Bill1955]

Your OP made it sound like the house was pre-wired by the builder or yourself. Is this correct? FWIW, new cable can be bad, and new installations can be faulty. I've done a few myself Also, someone (if you didn't do the job) could've put RG-59 behind the walls and you wouldn't know about it unless a piece was exposed for ID. It doesn't work well (or at all) for sat apps.

I'd likely use our little 9" portable RV TV and an extra receiver and start at the dish and move inside, connection by connection. You'll find the problem

Pat[/QUOTE]
Sorry, no the house was not prewired. We had old cabling from our other Directv system, but the installer didn't use it and ran new. But good ideas, I think my next step will be to climb on the roof with a receiver and small tv.....

 

[Bill1955]

Robert, that was my point exactly......how can LOS block just the EVEN transponders???? It just sounds weird, but maybe that could happen.....or maybe the EVEN's are weak and the ODDs are stronger and that's why they get through???? I just don't know, but I'm going to try all of these ideas out on the installers and I'll probably have a go at just taking a small tv out with a receiver and see what is happening right at the dish.

 

[uboatcmdr]

Robert, that was my point exactly......how can LOS block just the EVEN transponders???? It just sounds weird, but maybe that could happen.....or maybe the EVEN's are weak and the ODDs are stronger and that's why they get through???? I just don't know, but I'm going to try all of these ideas out on the installers and I'll probably have a go at just taking a small tv out with a receiver and see what is happening right at the dish.

Drop a line direct from the dish in through a window to the receiver (no need to drag everything up on the roof). You said the wire from the dish is new what about the wire inside the house (from the grounding block to the wall plates or the receiver)? Are your wires run through up through the floor? Direct through an outside wall? Or through an inside wall from the attic or under the house?

LOS issues will not give you one set of transponders and not another. If you can see the sat well enough to get the even transponders you will get the odd ones as well. This has to be a wiring or equipment related problem.

One thing to try, take a ohm meter outside to the grounding block, disconnect the wires from the block leaving the other ends still connected to the receivers (and the receivers powered on) put one lead from the meter on the stinger and the other on the outside of the connector. You should get a voltage reading of 13V or 18V (+/- 1-2 volts for line drop). If the voltage is significately less or there is no voltage then there is most likely something like a splitter in the line, or could be you have a few rodents building a nest and they needed to use some of the insulation from the wire for bedding material (I have run into this a number of times).

 

[Texas Red]

There has been lots of good advice to you. In CATV and satellite I would run a jumper and bypass all house wiring, (including the jumpers the installer made at the dish). If you get a correct signal, then you know the equipment is working.

If your installer placed a ground block inline, then run the jumper to the input side of the GB, and if no problems, then the output side of the GB to the receiver. This should isolate your problem. My bet is house prewire.

I also always carry another receiver, personal or showroom to verify the receiver working properly. If I have an intermittant problem, I'll leave a test receiver at the home to give the customer service, and take their unit to my shop and let it run for a few days.

Also, just thought of another thing. Check your surge protector. One of those like to have drove me to drink!

 

[boba]

A Texan driven to drink? That's just a short push.

 

[camachinist]

Sorry, no the house was not prewired. We had old cabling from our other Directv system, but the installer didn't use it and ran new. But good ideas, I think my next step will be to climb on the roof with a receiver and small tv.....

I actually had to do this today, and did use my RV TV as a monitor out on the patio with the DTiVo set up next to it. In my case I had some gross azimuth errors, due to my boy scout compass , so once I cabled up and discovered my error, I left everything in place and was able to quickly maximize signal strength solo. I then hooked the primary cables back up and tested with the inside televisions. No problems nor degradation. I'm using the 3 LNB oval dish with the built-in multiswitch.

God how I hate attics

Pat