Raycom & Dish still quareling? -Dispute Settled. channels back 8/9

tomcrown1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2008
2,321
16
San Francisco
I'am now not in the game since the Bay Area is not affected.

Thou we may not get our local 7 since that is a Disney channel.

The contract with them is due to be up in two months.

It would be interesting to see how this raycom mess works out.

I believe that if raycom does not see a drop in their revenue then dish may have a hard time keeping any locals.

On the other hand if raycom gives in then it is good news for all of us since the local providers will think twice about milking dish, thus when San Francisco abc station comes up for talks we will not experience a shut down of service


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DWS44

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Apr 14, 2004
7,241
4,412
Rock Hill, SC
Oh man, could you imagine? How awesome would it be to get a credit from the networks themselves? Why is it the TV providers that always have to give the discounts?

It would seem like the companies paying for advertising in these markets should be asking for credits/refunds from the stations, too...there are a whole lot fewer potential eyeballs seeing their advertising during the dispute.
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,099
48
Great High Plains
It would seem like the companies paying for advertising in these markets should be asking for credits/refunds from the stations, too...there are a whole lot fewer potential eyeballs seeing their advertising during the dispute.
When sweeps comes round and the Neilsen gods have spoken there will be advertisers doing that in spades. That is when the stations start calling the network and telling them how much revenue that they are losing. Then the the nets usually start thinking real seriously about their bottom dollar loss over last period. Just before that is when the nets start getting in the mood to settle. E* usually has less to lose than the nets. The public gets PO'd mostly at the station then E* in that order. It becomes a who do we believe and why can't I get my program. This is one of the reasons that corps pull this when there is less pressure and contracts expire mid year and end of year(mostly). Both are a month or 2 away from sweeps.
 

sam_gordon

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2009
2,276
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Lexington, ky
When sweeps comes round and the Neilsen gods have spoken there will be advertisers doing that in spades. That is when the stations start calling the network and telling them how much revenue that they are losing. Then the the nets usually start thinking real seriously about their bottom dollar loss over last period. Just before that is when the nets start getting in the mood to settle. E* usually has less to lose than the nets. The public gets PO'd mostly at the station then E* in that order. It becomes a who do we believe and why can't I get my program. This is one of the reasons that corps pull this when there is less pressure and contracts expire mid year and end of year(mostly). Both are a month or 2 away from sweeps.
Raycom isn't a network though.

Another thought... how many Nielsen families (those who Nielsen actually measures) are Dish customers? A drop of a percentage or two isn't unusual book to book. So those hoping Raycom will see a actual ratings drop may not get their wish.

Last but not least, how many of the markets are metered (meaning their 'ratings' are actually measured 24/7/365), and how many utilize diary? If they're diary, the next measurement is in November, which means results won't be available until the middle of December. I do know the Louisville market (NBC is Raycom owned) is metered. I don't know about the others. For the viewers' sake, I hope they don't need to wait until December for stations to see what the dispute does for ratings.
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,865
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Salem, OR
But how does Dish know what other providers are paying Raycom?
I would imagine that they're assuming that other providers are paying roughly what DISH was paying under the expired contract. They also know what they're paying to other channels in the same markets and surely have access to market share information.
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,099
48
Great High Plains
Raycom isn't a network though.

Another thought... how many Nielsen families (those who Nielsen actually measures) are Dish customers? A drop of a percentage or two isn't unusual book to book. So those hoping Raycom will see a actual ratings drop may not get their wish.

Last but not least, how many of the markets are metered (meaning their 'ratings' are actually measured 24/7/365), and how many utilize diary? If they're diary, the next measurement is in November, which means results won't be available until the middle of December. I do know the Louisville market (NBC is Raycom owned) is metered. I don't know about the others. For the viewers' sake, I hope they don't need to wait until December for stations to see what the dispute does for ratings.

They are a network of affiliates AKA corporate group of TV stations in 39 markets. Nielsen doesn't release the number of families whether Dish or any other company. They are very big on privacy of their members. Otherwise they feel it will compromise their data. Have even been one for a time. Have also been one for radio Arbitron service, but not at the same time or in the same city. Sweeps for fall start Oct. 25, have gone through the ritual so many times and hated it every time. News depts go nuts having to have the biggest, craziest, highest rated stories during that time. Even PBS tries to get the "juiciest" shows during that time. Back to the point yes Raycom isn't what you are calling a network. In the biz the are know as network group of stations. Like TWC, Nexstar, and Belo are other affiliate groups too. The pressure on Raycom will hit them in Sept w/ the premiers of the new shows. Both E* and Raycom will start get calls then. Raycom will get more as they are local, so people will call them to B. That is why they are running the ads and promo's to try and take some pressure off them. Personally, from experience it will be the station that catch the most. Have had to take calls in the past.
 

sam_gordon

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2009
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Lexington, ky
I agree the stations will get more calls with people B-ing about missing their favorite shows. However, some people on this thread have said "wait until they see their ratings drop", which is either happening now (metered markets) or won't happen until Mid-December (when stations get the results of the November diaries).
 

eacalhoun

Pub Member / Supporter
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 20, 2006
581
12
Morganton, NC
It's a shame this dispute did not happen during sweeps! However, there's probably a strategy to avoid that like making sure carriage contracts do not expire during or just before a sweeps month.
 

sam_gordon

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2009
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Lexington, ky
It would be interesting to know if any of the markets are metered. I know Louisville is. Metered markets can see ratings I think down the 15 minutes, 24/7/365.
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,099
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Great High Plains
I thought the use of Nielsen diaries went the way of the dinosaurs. How else does Nielsen report the top rated weekly shows within a week's timeframe?

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/top10s.html
It's done on line now and on paper books too. One has to do them and send them in ASAP w/in 2 days of finish or not get paid. Yes they pay 5 when the send the book and you get 5 for sending it back on time. So not a lot of $$ pass hands.
 

sam_gordon

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May 21, 2009
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Lexington, ky
I thought the use of Nielsen diaries went the way of the dinosaurs. How else does Nielsen report the top rated weekly shows within a week's timeframe?

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/top10s.html
I'm assuming they use the results from the metered markets. Like I said earlier, in a metered market, results can be gotten almost instantly (within 15 minutes). At least that's my understanding.

I would be interested to know how these "blackouts" are affecting the stations ratings. Since Louisville & Charlotte are metered markets, the data is out there.
 

HDRoberts

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May 13, 2008
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Cleveland, OH
I think the diaries are only for sweeps. Most of the time, they used metered boxes. They listen for a high pitched identifying signal (too high for humans to hear) that identifies the channel and program. Also, each family member when watching presses an identifying button so they can get demo information. This is only done for larger markets. Smaller markets are diary only.

Yes, I'm sure the Dish absence is hurting ratings. But Raycom has affiliates for different networks, so the effect may be spread out. Also, it's summer. Ratings are low anyway.
 

sam_gordon

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May 21, 2009
2,276
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Lexington, ky
I think the diaries are only for sweeps. Most of the time, they used metered boxes. They listen for a high pitched identifying signal (too high for humans to hear) that identifies the channel and program. Also, each family member when watching presses an identifying button so they can get demo information. This is only done for larger markets. Smaller markets are diary only.

Yes, I'm sure the Dish absence is hurting ratings. But Raycom has affiliates for different networks, so the effect may be spread out. Also, it's summer. Ratings are low anyway.
Regarding the bolded... stations (or whoever has the numbers) will compare year to year for the same time period. Although they'll look at the February results (for example) when they get the November results, it's more to see if there's a trend. Usually they'll compare November to November, May to May, July to July, and February to February.

So metered markets can take their overnight numbers now, look at the overnights for last August, and see if there's a change.
 
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