Before I comment, do you have a link to this "wolfman" or can you post a diagram of your setup that you are trying to receive DIRECTV service on down there?
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reviving old thread about hd channels south of the border
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also this is what wolf has in belize.my setup is very similar.i couldn`t figure out how to attach the fotos so if you can`t open mine check this thread http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/first-time-set-up.309927/page-14
Ok, got the images, thanks ....
Two things immediately, it won't completely work this way. Or at least not well if at all. The network tuner in the receiver(s) needs to be able to access 101W or 119W as well from the LNB you are using for 103W to download guide data when veiwing programming from the 103W satellites. So you're really going to have to ditch the legacy Zinwell WB68 for a SWiM module which always allows the network tuner in the receiver(s) to see 101W.
Also, you really need to cut-off all those cheap crimp-on cable connectors and use only good compressions fittings.
And are those actually actually frequency selective diplexers on the 99/101 lines?
As they should really be combiners or like just wideband splitters in reverse so the down-converted L-band signals for the Ka-band, 250-750 MHz and 1650-2150 MHz are simply added to both sides of the L-band signals for the Ku band, 950-1450 MHz, as the center frequency block of the spectrum.
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Two things immediately, it won't completely work this way. Or at least not well if at all. The network tuner in the receiver(s) needs to be able to access 101W or 119W as well from the LNB you are using for 103W to download guide data when veiwing programming from the 103W satellites. So you're really going to have to ditch the legacy Zinwell WB68 for a SWiM module which always allows the network tuner in the receiver(s) to see 101W.
Also, you really need to cut-off all those cheap crimp-on cable connectors and use only good compressions fittings.
And are those actually actually frequency selective diplexers on the 99/101 lines?
As they should really be combiners or like just wideband splitters in reverse so the down-converted L-band signals for the Ka-band, 250-750 MHz and 1650-2150 MHz are simply added to both sides of the L-band signals for the Ku band, 950-1450 MHz, as the center frequency block of the spectrum.
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.i was having problems with the channel guide but i changed my setup to 5 lnb slimline even though i only have the 3 lnb setup and that seemed to solve the problem.trying to get the correct switches where i am is alittle difficult as i usually have to send to cp electronics to find them.he only had one dual power pass last time so i had to run down the dish net guy for another but his diplexer was a little higher frequency .i`ll check today and report back the frequencies .here is the site i have been buying from maybe you can suggest what i need https://www.cp-electronics.com/eng/products.php?cat=26&pg=1.thanks again for your help you are giving me a good education
here are attached fotos of the 2 diplexers .one is 5-2150 mhz the other i got from the dish dealer is 5-2500mhz.i was also wondering if the sonora 5 power invertor would be better than the swm.
MULTISWITCH SONORA 5 LNB POWER INSERTER - POLARITY LOCKER
You can install the Sonora HRPID1422A between your SL3 or SL5 LNB and your 6x8 Multiswitch for DirecTV so that each connection to your LNB will be fixed on one signal each and the LNB will not have to switch. Another large function of the HRPID1422A is the power injection. With this Sonora your receiver will no longer have to power the LNB. Includes Power Supply - Power supply can be run via coaxial (RG6) cable from indoors to the roof or remote area.
MULTISWITCH SONORA 5 LNB POWER INSERTER - POLARITY LOCKER
You can install the Sonora HRPID1422A between your SL3 or SL5 LNB and your 6x8 Multiswitch for DirecTV so that each connection to your LNB will be fixed on one signal each and the LNB will not have to switch. Another large function of the HRPID1422A is the power injection. With this Sonora your receiver will no longer have to power the LNB. Includes Power Supply - Power supply can be run via coaxial (RG6) cable from indoors to the roof or remote area.
doctor J
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I've been following this thread as well as the 2013 version from afar.
There are multiple issues but the key has to be to get the band stacking for KA low 250-750, KU 950 to 1450 and KA High 1650 to 2150 onto the 4 paths 18v, 13v 18v & 22 tone ,13v & 22 tone, with as little attenuation or extra noise as possible.
Not as much of an issue if no 110/119 as the 103 just has high and low, no middle for ports 3 & 4
The 99 plus 101 is where the rub comes in. 101 from the KU LNB adds to 99 and 101 from the SL3 on ports 1 & 2. Thus 2 examples of 101 which can't be good, for lack of a better term "phase".
The Mexico "Package" has a "modified" SL3 LNB for 99 which I belief just isolates the 99 waveguide and nulls the 101 and 103 as to not introduce any duplicate info to interfere with the "combined signals".
The position of the 3 LNBs is also very critical. Looking at the photos the different height of the 2 SL3 may compensate for the "TILT" of 99/101/103 reception.
Having worked with an A-H 1.2 m dish and the A-H KAKU LNB as well as trying to improve rain fade by using an SL3 LNB on a 1 meter offset dish ,I am sensitive to the difficulties of finding the optimal focal point in 3 dimensions!
The key word is 3 dimensions. Working with an LNB holer to finely tune each LNB is needed and akin to the "dithering" process in 3D.
I know you are well into a lot of expense with all of this but one additional thought would be to purchase an AIM Directv meter to optimize the 99 and 103 LNB positions and then check after the diplexors to optimize different combiners and diplexors. A standard diplexor used to work when only KA low as the TV signals (<1000 MHz ie KA low and SAT 950 to 1450) were easily combined. Now that KA high is in the mix a commercial band pass filter to combine the 101 with the SL3 signal run thru a filter to exclude 900 to 1600 MHz might be a help.
Good Luck
Doctor j
There are multiple issues but the key has to be to get the band stacking for KA low 250-750, KU 950 to 1450 and KA High 1650 to 2150 onto the 4 paths 18v, 13v 18v & 22 tone ,13v & 22 tone, with as little attenuation or extra noise as possible.
Not as much of an issue if no 110/119 as the 103 just has high and low, no middle for ports 3 & 4
The 99 plus 101 is where the rub comes in. 101 from the KU LNB adds to 99 and 101 from the SL3 on ports 1 & 2. Thus 2 examples of 101 which can't be good, for lack of a better term "phase".
The Mexico "Package" has a "modified" SL3 LNB for 99 which I belief just isolates the 99 waveguide and nulls the 101 and 103 as to not introduce any duplicate info to interfere with the "combined signals".
The position of the 3 LNBs is also very critical. Looking at the photos the different height of the 2 SL3 may compensate for the "TILT" of 99/101/103 reception.
Having worked with an A-H 1.2 m dish and the A-H KAKU LNB as well as trying to improve rain fade by using an SL3 LNB on a 1 meter offset dish ,I am sensitive to the difficulties of finding the optimal focal point in 3 dimensions!
The key word is 3 dimensions. Working with an LNB holer to finely tune each LNB is needed and akin to the "dithering" process in 3D.
I know you are well into a lot of expense with all of this but one additional thought would be to purchase an AIM Directv meter to optimize the 99 and 103 LNB positions and then check after the diplexors to optimize different combiners and diplexors. A standard diplexor used to work when only KA low as the TV signals (<1000 MHz ie KA low and SAT 950 to 1450) were easily combined. Now that KA high is in the mix a commercial band pass filter to combine the 101 with the SL3 signal run thru a filter to exclude 900 to 1600 MHz might be a help.
Good Luck
Doctor j
thanks for the info i am learning alot as i get deeper into this project.i have been in this as a hobby since the c-band days and i think i have had every type of satellite system on my roof in the states,from alpha star ,,primestar the fta systems etc.i have used birdog and other meters and now i have a tracker lite that works pretty well for my needs.i was not aware of an aim direct tv meter but i guess it will pick up the ka band.the dish i am using now is a commercial dish that was used by mexicana airlines and is about 2.8 meters offset,but still difficult to pull in the 99 signal.the 103 is easier and i`m getting signal on all but 2 of the avaliable transponder on 103cb.the 99cb i only get 4,so i am concentrating on that now. do you have a brand name and a source where i can find a commercial band pass filter?thanks again for your help.
doctor J
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http://www.klmicrowave.com/product_attach/0/_plk166_1_8N10Bandreject.pdf
Not exactly what you need but close
No idea about cost but this site may be able to help a lot
Doctor j
Not exactly what you need but close
No idea about cost but this site may be able to help a lot
Doctor j
wow pretty technical for me and alot of products to look thru.the other problem is getting it down here to mexico.i think i have to go with the sonora which i can get here and give it a try.the other question is how many mhz does the lnb need and the max it can handle?
If you really want to do the best possible for Ka reception, you would need 4 dishes, 4 LNB’s, and a handful of diplexers.
At 99 and 103 there are 2 bands of Ka in use, Ka low and Ka high. They stack above and below the standard satellite IF (Ka low 250-750 MHz, Ku 950-1450 MHz, Ka High 1650-2150 MHz). The optimal thing to do would be to have 4 big dishes, each with a Ka LNB centered on the big dish, making sure the fd ratio and the shape of the feed horn was matched to the dishes. Then one big dish would be aimed to maximize signal for Ka low at 99, one would be aimed to maximize signal for Ka high at 99, one would be aimed to maximize signal for Ka low at 103, and one would be aimed to maximize signal for Ka high at 103. Then use dish network DPP separators (in reverse) to stack the Ka high with the Ku, then use diplexers to stack the Ka low with the Ku/Ka high stacked signals. Then run all of that into SWM or multiswitch. You would need to use DC inserters and 22khz injectors to make sure each LNB was doing what the SWM/multiswitch expected.
i can understand that would work but according one of guy in belize he is using one dish,another guy is using 2 dishes ,so i believe it is possible with one or maybe 2 dishes.i have a kit bought from a mexican dealer with a tuned lnb for 99 only and another triple lnb for 103 .i am getting most trans ponders on the 103 cb but nothing on ca or s.on 99 cb only 4 or 5 on the cb ,none on ca or s.i will probably put up another 6 ft dish and experiment some more.i was just wondering how and how much power i can send to the lnb`s
doctor J
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20 volts to the legacy LNB.
I think I would use one polarity locker either Sonora or NAS to each dish.
I believe the downstream side of the polarity locker if free of power so the diplexors/filters/combiners won't have to fool with it.
One 18 volt and one 13 volt line each to the dish/LNB with 99 and the dish/LNB for 101 and one 18 volt-22kHz tone and one 13 volt-22kHz tone line to the 103 dish/LNB.
Doctor j
I think I would use one polarity locker either Sonora or NAS to each dish.
I believe the downstream side of the polarity locker if free of power so the diplexors/filters/combiners won't have to fool with it.
One 18 volt and one 13 volt line each to the dish/LNB with 99 and the dish/LNB for 101 and one 18 volt-22kHz tone and one 13 volt-22kHz tone line to the 103 dish/LNB.
Doctor j
But again, shouldn't all that have to feed a SWiM module?
Otherwise, how do you get Ku from 101 or 119 inserted on to the 18v/13v + 22 KHz lines to satisfy the network tuner searching for guide data during prolonged veiwing from the 103W Ka satellites?
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Otherwise, how do you get Ku from 101 or 119 inserted on to the 18v/13v + 22 KHz lines to satisfy the network tuner searching for guide data during prolonged veiwing from the 103W Ka satellites?
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i just got a swm switch and power insertor.i am aliitle confused about how to set it up with non swm lnbs.i will just plug my exsiting lnb lines into the 99/101 and 103 ports(i am now using 2 power pass diplexers for the 99/101 line going into a 6x8 switch and the 2 103 lines into the 103 ports.i have 2 feeds going into the b-band converters on my ird)so with the swm switch i run the power into the power port and just 1 line from the power source into my ird without b-band converters?
Yep, basically the four LNB lines into the 99/101 and 103/110/119 input ports on the SWM-8 as you say.
And the SWM/PWR-1 output port to the ODU side of the PI and the IRD side of the PI to the receiver.
NO BBCs ....
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No, converting to SWiM just means that the receiver won't start complaining and/or suffer reboots over lack of guide data when veiwing the 103 satellites over time.
But this won't help with the main issue of simply not sufficient signal strength for the Ka band signals at your location which is by design of course since it is intended for CONUS service.
You're trying to receive the unintended spillover into Mexico which tapers away much faster at Ka band wavelengths than at Ku. So unless you are very close to the US/Mex. border, it's going to be very difficult and hit or miss for the various 99, 103 xpndrs at best.
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But this won't help with the main issue of simply not sufficient signal strength for the Ka band signals at your location which is by design of course since it is intended for CONUS service.
You're trying to receive the unintended spillover into Mexico which tapers away much faster at Ka band wavelengths than at Ku. So unless you are very close to the US/Mex. border, it's going to be very difficult and hit or miss for the various 99, 103 xpndrs at best.
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yeah i kind of figured that but the guy in belize has had good success and he is about 250 miles east of me so i guess i`ll get another dish and keep trying.i do know that he has an alaska/hawaii lnb and is getting alot more ca transponders then me,so that may be part of the solution also.i`ll keep trying ,i have the time.
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