RTPi - No Signal

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dstone2022

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Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
Hi again, my father still watches RTP with the 7 foot dish everyday.
The Amiko Mini HD RE worked great for the past 5 years, but two weeks ago a No Signal started to appear.
The video would play for a few seconds then freeze with the No Signal displayed.

I went to the Amiko Settings and deleted all the channels and did a blind scan.
It found the TP's but none of them had a good signal so they didn't find the RTP channel.

I looked online and edited the first TP with the latest setting for RTP : 4112 V 2222
I did at least 10 blind and TP scans, deleted channels, and scanned again before it finally worked.
But it only worked for a few days before the No Signal was displayed again.
I tried scanning a bunch of times, deleted all the channels, and did a blind scan again, but it didn't find RTP, it only found a bunch of scrambled channels.
I went to settings and reset the Amiko to default settings, and since then it can no longer find any satellite.

I reentered the settings, but I may have missed something, so could someone please tell me if the settings are wrong, and what else can I try?

Current settings, I believe those were the original settings.

Satellite: 55.5 IS805
LNB Type: Standard - First Frequency -5150
TP Index: No TP
DiSEqC 1.0: 1/4
DiSEqC 1.1: Disabled
Positioner: Off
22k: Off
0/12v: Off
Polarity: Auto
LNB Power: On

Like I said, when I do a blind scan it can't even find the satellite like it did before I reset to default.
I tried Auto Installation but it also couldn't find a satellite.

I tried updating the Amiko software with a cat5 cable connected to the router, but it couldn't find the server.
Is it possible to download the update file on a PC and use a USB to update the Amiko?

At this point, I'm not sure if the problem is the Amiko or the signal from the cable.
I tilted the dish to another satellite and then back to the 805 without problems.

Any help and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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From your description in the first two paragraphs:

"The Amiko Mini HD RE worked great for the past 5 years, but two weeks ago a No Signal started to appear.
The video would play for a few seconds then freeze with the No Signal displayed."

and

"I went to the Amiko Settings and deleted all the channels and did a blind scan.
It found the TP's but none of them had a good signal so they didn't find the RTP channel."


This would appear to be a loss of or low signal signal condition (dish out of alignment, poor coax connection between receiver and lnbf, possibly a failing lnbf). Before buying a new receiver I would investigate these areas first. The fact that the receiver would display RTPI for a few seconds then show no signal indicates that it is not receiving the signal properly. I have had this happen on a motorized dish several times. Bumping the dish east or west a click or so usually fixes it but the dish may also need some alignment. Keep in mind that the FEC on RTPI is 8/9 so you need a really robust signal to keep a solid lock. That would be my first area to investigate. There is also the possibility that 5G may now be causing terrestrial interference to your signal. That can possibly be fixed with a new lnbf with 5G filtering. Hope this helps and I wish you luck. :)
 
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dstone2022

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
Thanks for replying.
I did try to bump the dish a bit left and right but with no luck.
Sometimes when it was windy bumping the dish a bit did help.
In the winter if the dish got covered with snow, I would tilt the dish to the far right, wait an hour then back to 805 and it would work.
The dish hasn't been moved since last winter.

If it is the signal, then why did it work well for a few days and then stop again?
And why did it stop detecting the satellite after I reset the Amiko to default?

Is it possible to check the cable signal without the receiver, maybe with a multimeter?

Are there any videos you can recommend that show how to verify the cable connection or lnbf?

Thanks.
 
FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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Thanks for replying.
I did try to bump the dish a bit left and right but with no luck.
Sometimes when it was windy bumping the dish a bit did help.
In the winter if the dish got covered with snow, I would tilt the dish to the far right, wait an hour then back to 805 and it would work.
The dish hasn't been moved since last winter.

If it is the signal, then why did it work well for a few days and then stop again?
And why did it stop detecting the satellite after I reset the Amiko to default?

Is it possible to check the cable signal without the receiver, maybe with a multimeter?

Are there any videos you can recommend that show how to verify the cable connection or lnbf?

Thanks.

Before adjusting/replacing anything you could check the signal from the lnbf by taking your receiver and a small tv out to the dish. Hook a different short piece of coax up directly between the dish and receiver. If you get a good signal there then likely your 'regular' coax has a bad connector or a bad spot. Really no way to test the lnbf itself short of swapping a known good one into it's place.

You said that bumping the dish left or right a bit when it is windy helps the signal. Try pushing up/pulling down with your hand on the dish while you have the tv/receiver at the dish. If it helps then the dish needs aligned. This in in effect the same thing the wind force does as it blows against the dish and the signal improves.
 
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dstone2022

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
The dish is bolted to the roof edge of a 2-story building. When it's pointed at 55.5W, the LNB is a few feet away from the edge of the building. When the dish is tilted vertically, it blocks the top of the 8-foot vertical ladder to access the roof, and the LNB is again inaccessible.

I checked the cable connector on the Amiko receiver and it was a bit loose, I tried holding it towards the receiver and scanning but got the same results, no satellite found.
I removed the loose connector and inserted the thin wire in the middle of the cable into the receiver coax socket, held it there and did a scan, but still no satellite was found. Can a coax cable work without the connecter?
I put the connector back on the cable and crimped it a bit with pliers, but still no satellite was found.
Any other suggestions that I can try? Is there a voltage in the cable that can be measured?

When I connect a cat5 cable to the receiver and the router, the receiver is assigned an IP address, but none of the internet apps on the Amiko receiver work. It shows a server connection error for all the apps and HTTP updating. Would updating the receiver software help?
Where can I download the software update for the Amiko Mini HD RE, and update it from a USB?

Thanks.
 
Jim S.

Jim S.

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You won't get a signal with just the center wire of the coax connected, because the receiver sends power to the LNB. It should be putting out either 13 or 18 volts, depending on which polarity is selected (assuming you have a modern voltage-switched LNBF and not an old LNB with a polarotor.)
 
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dstone2022

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
The dish was installed at least 25 years ago, and I believe only the dish motor was replaced 10–15 years ago.
It still has the original controller box used to move the dish. It's been sitting on a shelf over the 35" CRT TV for the past 25+ years. I use the controller every winter to tilt the dish when it's covered with snow, and the Amiko and 3 previous receivers sat on top of it.
My father doesn't want a new TV.

I'll try cutting the wire and installing a new connector. Does crimping the connector help the signal or is crimping only to secure the connector to the cable?

Thanks.
 
FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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The dish was installed at least 25 years ago, and I believe only the dish motor was replaced 10–15 years ago.
It still has the original controller box used to move the dish. It's been sitting on a shelf over the 35" CRT TV for the past 25+ years. I use the controller every winter to tilt the dish when it's covered with snow, and the Amiko and 3 previous receivers sat on top of it.
My father doesn't want a new TV.

I'll try cutting the wire and installing a new connector. Does crimping the connector help the signal or is crimping only to secure the connector to the cable?

Thanks.

So the dish hasn't been tuned up in the 25+ years since it was installed? Is it the same coax as originally installed too? If so, a tuneup and upgrade is overdue IMHO. :rolleyes

Crimping the connector not only secures it to the coax but ensures a good electrical connection as well. Not sure what is currently on your coax but these days you should be using a compression connector like those in this kit. They help make the connection water tight.

Amazon product
View: https://www.amazon.com/Crimper-Coaxial-Compression-Stripper-Connectors/dp/B07GQVJRR2


The voltage, 13 or 18 volts, depending on whether the channel is horizontal or vertcial polarity, travels on the coax to power the lnbf. If you have a multimeter you should see that voltage on the coax at the dish. Place one probe on the center pin and one on the outside part that screws the connector on. Be sure not to short the two together or you may cause damage. If you don't get voltage at the dish try the same test at the coax port on the back of the receiver. If there is voltage there then the coax to the dish is bad or has bad connections.
 
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Cham

Cham

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The connector issue at the receiver you describe is definately a problem. The braid MUST be in contact with the connector shell in order for it to work. Also, there must not be a short between the braid/connector shell and the center wire, as this could damage your receiver.

I would cut back your feedline an inch or so and attach a new connector, crimp or compression (avoid the screw-into-feedline type). I also favour the compression connectors. You can get a tool kit with some connectors at most Big Box supply stores. These may also include a cable preparation tool that cuts the proper length of cable for the connectors. Try it on an old piece of feedline or purchase a bit of new to practice on before cutting your likely-already-too-short installed cable though first.

Then you might want to check for your dish aiming, maybe your receiver has a phone app that allows you to see signal levels while you are up at the dish, or your Dad can yell out the window... :)

I would consider changing out 25 year old feedline even if it does test ok. Buy extra cable for jumpers etc. Belden, Commscope, Channelmaster are good name brands for RG6.
Coax feedlines do depreciate over time due to weather exposure, moisture, UV, Ozone, etc. The center insulator can degrade and cause losses, and the shielding braid can corrode from moisture, especially if there are any cracks in the outer casing or poorly installed connectors.

Should be lots of advice on feeedlines and connectors if you search around the forum.
 
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dstone2022

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
I ordered the kit with the cable stripper, connectors, and crimping tool. $21 + free shipping from amazon.ca
When I get it I'll cut a piece of the cable and install a new connector.

There is over 10 feet of spare dish cable behind the TV. It's a flat cable with 4 cables attached together. Two cables go to the controller box to move the dish. Those two cables have 4 or 5 smaller wires each, and 7 of the wires from those two cables are connected behind the controller box.
Another coax cable goes to the receiver, and the last coax cable is not used and has no connector.
The unused cable is also a coax cable. Could it be an active spare signal cable?? If the connector doesn't work on the current cable connected to the receiver, I'll try installing a connector on the spare coax cable and connect it to the receiver.

The cable was rarely moved over the past 25+ years.
The coax cable connected to the receiver has a cheap brass connector that is bent/crushed to secure it to the cable, but it's loose. I tried crimping it with pliers but nothing changed, still can't find the satellite.

Thanks.
 
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FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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I ordered the kit with the cable stripper, connectors, and crimping tool. $21 + free shipping from amazon.ca
When I get it I'll cut a piece of the cable and install a new connector.

There is over 10 feet of spare dish cable behind the TV. It's a flat cable with 4 cables attached together. Two cables go to the controller box to move the dish. Those two cables have 4 or 5 smaller wires each, and 7 of the wires from those two cables are connected behind the controller box.
Another coax cable goes to the receiver, and the last coax cable is not used.
The cable was rarely moved over the past 25+ years.
The coax cable connected to the receiver has a cheap brass connector that is bent/crushed to secure it to the cable, but it's loose. I tried crimping it with pliers but nothing changed, still can't find the satellite.

Thanks.

Good, try the simplest things first - verify settings in receiver, replace the coax connectors, check for voltage at dish/receiver, etc - then move on to other things. Hopefully once you replace the connectors you will be good. If not, then start checking dish alignment. After you eliminate everything else you can think about new coax, lnbf or receiver. Less costly for you that way. ;)
 
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dstone2022

Thread Starter
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Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
Buying the kit was a waste of time. I tried 5 different connectors and I could not get one to fit on the cable.
The coax cable is marked Dual 6/u, but from comparisons I saw on youtube, the cable I have has barely any shielding wires, and it looks more like an RG59 cable.
I had never used a compression crimping tool before and I mistakenly thought that the tool would actually insert the coax cable into the connector.
I tried inserting the connectors by hand, but the black outer insulation would not allow the connector to be inserted more than half way.
I should have read the reviews before I bought that kit, because a few people who bought it say the connectors are crap. And since the cable I have seems to be low quality, I don't know if I'll be able to get any compression type connectors on it. Isn't there a tool or method to easily fully insert a compression type connector on low quality coax cables???
 
FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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Buying the kit was a waste of time. I tried 5 different connectors and I could not get one to fit on the cable.
The coax cable is marked Dual 6/u, but from comparisons I saw on youtube, the cable I have has barely any shielding wires, and it looks more like an RG59 cable.
I had never used a compression crimping tool before and I mistakenly thought that the tool would actually insert the coax cable into the connector.
I tried inserting the connectors by hand, but the black outer insulation would not allow the connector to be inserted more than half way.
I should have read the reviews before I bought that kit, because a few people who bought it say the connectors are crap. And since the cable I have seems to be low quality, I don't know if I'll be able to get any compression type connectors on it. Isn't there a tool or method to easily fully insert a compression type connector on low quality coax cables???

That kit has 4.4 out of 5 stars so likely the problem is the old coax you are using it on. I have got connectors on the old dual coax but it wasn't easy. Had to shave away the section where it joins and push really hard. It worked but most of the time I just replaced it with new good quality shielded RG6 to be on the safe side. Not sure what coax you have there but if there is very little shielding and it is more like RG59 and is over 25 years old then it's likely time to replace it. As far as using the tool to attach a connector here are some pics I took for someone who asked how to do that a while ago.

First use your stripper tool to cut the coax like this:

IMG 2632

IMG 2633


Then rotate the stripper tool on coax to remove the outer and inner sheaths to expose the copper conductor and braid:

IMG 2634

IMG 2635


Fold braid back over outer sheath:

IMG 2636


Place connector on coax so that center foam (around the copper conductor) is even with the inside edge of the connector:

IMG 2637

IMG 2638


Insert connector/cable into compression tool and squeeze:

IMG 2641


Done!

IMG 2642


Did you get a chance to test for proper voltage from the receiver?
 
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dstone2022

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jul 23, 2009
32
4
Quebec
I watched a bunch of YouTube videos on how to install the connectors on the cable.
I had no problem stripping the cable, but when I tried to insert the connector, the cable wouldn't go more than half way in no matter how hard I pushed and turned the connector. The black outer insulation would block the connector. It looks like there isn't enough space in the connector for the cable's black outer insulation to fit in it.
I didn't understand how to measure the voltage, and like I wrote above, the LNB on the dish is out of reach.

The cable had a cheap brass connector that worked for 25+ years.
Installing a compression connector may be a waste of time.
Cable and dish technology have barely advanced much in the past 25 years.
 
FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
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Central Pennsylvania
I watched a bunch of YouTube videos on how to install the connectors on the cable.
I had no problem stripping the cable, but when I tried to insert the connector, the cable wouldn't go more than half way in no matter how hard I pushed and turned the connector. The black outer insulation would block the connector. It looks like there isn't enough space in the connector for the cable's black outer insulation to fit in it.
I didn't understand how to measure the voltage, and like I wrote above, the LNB on the dish is out of reach.

The cable had a cheap brass connector that worked for 25+ years.
Installing a compression connector may be a waste of time.
Cable and dish technology have barely advanced much in the past 25 years.

Yes, that old cable can be a bear to get a new compression connector on. Dishes are pretty much dishes then or now but new high quality RG6 has dual, triple or even quad shielding and is sweep tested to 3 GHz. More important now in the age of digital and 5G. New compression connectors also help alleviate water intrusion. In the end though it is your setup so you can retain whatever you want of the original parts however even high quality old equipment and parts wear out when exposed to the elements for over 25 years. Just trying to help you sort things out. :)

If you have a multimeter you can test the voltage on your receiver. Simplest way is to insert a pin or needle into the center hole of the coax port. Put one probe from your meter on the outer ground part of the coax port and one probe on the needle/pin making sure not to short the two together. You should see about 14VDC or 18VDC depending on polarity.
 
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dstone2022

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Jul 23, 2009
32
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Quebec
I appreciate all the help. It just gets frustrating trying to fix this problem.

I removed the cable from the receiver and inserted a one-inch piece of cable copper wire that I had cut after I had stripped the cable. With the receiver on, the voltage was always at about 3.4vdc. I was careful not to short it.
What does 3.4vdc mean?
There are no satellites and TP's setup in the receiver. Would this affect the receiver voltage?

Thanks.
 
FTA4PA

FTA4PA

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Nov 13, 2013
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Central Pennsylvania
I appreciate all the help. It just gets frustrating trying to fix this problem.

I removed the cable from the receiver and inserted a one-inch piece of cable copper wire that I had cut after I had stripped the cable. With the receiver on, the voltage was always at about 3.4vdc. I was careful not to short it.
What does 3.4vdc mean?
There are no satellites and TP's setup in the receiver. Would this affect the receiver voltage?

Thanks.

That's understandable, especially when there are so many variables involved. I just pulled my old Amiko Mini HD SE out of storage and tested the voltage on the coax port. I get about 14VDC or 18VDC on the coax port with my meter depending on whether the polarity setting is horizontal or vertical. With the lnb power turned off I still get 1 volt.

This is an older Amiko model than yours with no channels stored but the satellite list is still there. That may have some bearing on the readings but if you are getting only 3.4VDC from the coax port and you are sure the lnb power is turned on in the settings then it does appear you may have a failed or failing receiver. Doing a search I see you had a Digiwave prior to the Amiko that failed as well. You could try a new receiver but personally I would want to make sure something in your system is not causing the failures first (poor grounding, short, etc?).

If you do go with a new receiver and you liked the Amiko you might want to try one of these.



Plese report back on your progress. Good luck! :)
 
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