SC vrs. Bell / SD and HD Picture Quality / Who is better?

[bjf]

I'm interested in how SC and Bell compare now on picture quality for
both SD and HD.

I'd read that SC was the best on both as they put fewer channels per transponder.

But now I'm confused. I've read that Bell is now better at least for HD.

Would appreciate any input on which is really better.

Also, regarding HD is there a list of what channels are having their bandwidth lowered (HDLITE) or downconverted.

I'm curious about the US networks in HD both East and West feeds.
For both SC and Bell. Will there be noticeable picture differences from the various cities or sat. providers in HD?

Lastly, does anyone know if SC or Bell send out 5.1 surround on the US networks in HD.

Thanks in advance.

bjf

 

[Kryspy]

Here we go again......

As I have owned both I will give you the skinny IMHO:

Comapring a ExpressVU 9200 and a Starchoice 530 DVR's

ExpressVU SD: Looks very good and clean on 90% of all channels

Starchoice SD: Looks like complete a$$ on most channels IMHO

ExpressVU and Starchoice HD: Look the same to me.

I am comparing this ona 52 inch Panasonic rear LCD (720p native)

As for the 5.1 question, I forget what SC sent but the majority of ExVU US networks send 5.1 if available.

Kryspy

P.S. If anyone chimes in saying there is a huge difference between HD on SC and ExVu they are in denial or they have never owned both.

 

[Jumbo Dumbo]

.. and of course 8 to 12 SD channels/transponder always have better PQ than 4 to 8 channels/transponders

 

[Clancy]

.. and of course 8 to 12 SD channels/transponder always have better PQ than 4 to 8 channels/transponders

I agree with you. I think bjf wants to take a look at the Kryspy avatar.
After seeing the avatar, I wonder if his opinion is biased.
As far as standard definition goes, Star Choice is head and shoulders above Bell X and Dish and Direct in picture resolution. The others are not even close.
To answer bjf's question on SD, Star Choice is by far the better picture.

 

[Kryspy]

First,

The opinion was based on a DVR530 and an ExpressVU 9200. I have owned both and those are my opinions.

If you are stating that SD looks awesome on any other Starchoice receiver than it must be the fault of the 530 because on my TV SD was unacceptable.

If you guys are comparing the same as me then you are surely in denial.

I had Starchoice and I wanted to love them for all the right reasons, like customer service and just plain rooting for the under dog but the simple fact of the matter is they provide an inferior service.

If you care about a companies comittment to pushing future tech then ExpressVU is your company; Starchoice only wants to maintain the status quo.

"and of course 8 to 12 SD channels/transponder always have better PQ than 4 to 8 channels/transponders"

I guess so in this case !!! Hardware must be the difference; ExpressVU has it and Starchoice, well they have Motorola so I guess not.

My avatar means nothing than more than what was stated above. I have owned both and I could tell a difference. HD is all I care about as I rarely watch SD; only if forced to.

Also, grow up as I was merely giving my opinion which last time I checked is what a forum was for.


Kryspy

P.S. Put your money where your mouth is and post your equipment in your signatures so we can make sure we are comparing same to same.

 

[Satellite Expert]

If you care about a companies comittment to pushing future tech then ExpressVU is your company;


.

Planet Moon to Kryspy

There is NO future for Expressvu - just as soon as BCE can affordably launch Expressvu IPTV - that's where the $$ are going. And there are going to far fewer $$$ to invest as BCE is turning into an Income Trust.

 

[Mr Tony]

I have had both and SC SD is much cleaner that Bell. I guess when you are use to Dish or Bell's "compressed" (they dont call it compressvu for nothing) picture SC looks much better (again in my opinion)

 

[Kryspy]

Satellite Expert,

And Bell's IPTV is going to be the same identical programming as exists on EXpressVU right now sans the dish and the addition of VOD etc.

ExpressVU will still exist for rural areas that cannot be serviced by IPTV. The platform was fully explained to me by a Bell representative who is beta testing the IPTV system.

And, BTW IPTV was the future tech I was referring to as that is the only way to advance and offer things like true VOD etc. MPEG 4 is another jump that they have hinted it.

Everyone likes to defend what they own, why I don't know ..... it's only frickin' TV for christ sake.

Iceberg,

I appreciate your opinion and I too may have agreed with you but since the 9200 came out SD is clean on ExpressVU and cleaner than SC. Chalk it up to a better video scaler or what I don't care but it is better. Again just my opinion.

 

[bjf]

Thanks for all the replies.

Could any of you elaborate on the HD USA networks from both SC and Bell.

I've read here that some are converting the 720P to 1080i and vice verse.
And some HD channels might be getting a lowered bandwidth affecting picture quality.

Is there a list / website that lists what the two providers are sending out in HD resolutions / 720P or 1080i.

Do either sat. provider send the East or West USA HD networks with no changing
or lowering of the HD signal?

From what I've read it appears ABC might be being messed with by both Bell and SC.

I'm also really wanting to find out about the 5.1 surround on NBC, CBS, ABC HD channels. From the various East / West feeds on both SC and Bell.

Are the particular USA HD affiliates from these various cities passing on the 5.1 signal from the network. i.e. is Seattle or Detroit passing through the 5.1?

The reason I am interested is I don't want to get the wrong sat. provider who's
affiliates are not passing through the 5.1. My local HD off air signal do not pass this on to me. They don't want to buy the 5.1 gear or use bandwidtch for 5.1
including my PBS channel.

Any help is appreciated.

Can anyone comment on the HD picture quality of SC 505 receiver or the Bell 6000? I was looking at those rather than the DVR models. Especially after reading how bad the 530 DVR is with SC. I'm curious about both SD and HD on these two receivers.

Lastly, is the current Bell 9200 DVR a lot better picture than the older 6000 receiver? Both SD And HD.

Thanks, bjf

 

[Kryspy]

I can comment on the 6000 vs. 9200 question. The 9200 has a much better video processor in it than the 6000.

To the best of my knowledge on ExpressVU all the US networks are passing 5.1 except for when being sim subbed by the Canadian affialitate then that is another story.

All of my Local OTA affilaites pass 5.1 as well so not sure about where you are located though.

Kryspy

 

[bjf]

Kryspy,

I'm out west.
But my HD off air is lacking.
PBS is the best but no 5.1.
And none have any plans for 5.1.
They don't want to spend the money to upgrade.

Regarding the "sim sub".
I read about this and would shows like Good Morning America, The Today Show,
The Tonight Show, Letterman, etc do the "Sim subbing" ?

Or is this mainly on primetime US tv series.
Where they substitute another channel showing this same show with Canadian tv commercials.

Still a bit confused about "simsub".

Thanks, bjf

 

[Kryspy]

Sim subbing is usually only found on primetime shows like CSI and Law and Order etc.

Talk shows are not usually atrributed to sim subbing.

Kryspy

 

[jself1982]

50" widescreen here and SC is to me in my opinion the best. And if you are looking for no contracts then I would sure go with SC.

Bell, in my opinion, seems to hard to get and too hard to understand their packaging. SC is just easier and the picture is GRAND! Although I haven't upgraded to HD only because I am waiting on the MPEG4 upgrade.

 

[Clancy]

50" widescreen here and SC is to me in my opinion the best. And if you are looking for no contracts then I would sure go with SC.

Bell, in my opinion, seems to hard to get and too hard to understand their packaging. SC is just easier and the picture is GRAND! Although I haven't upgraded to HD only because I am waiting on the MPEG4 upgrade.

I'm glad to see you know a quality picture when given the opportunity.
Some people just can't fathom what over compression with too many channels per transponder as compared to another provider that puts less channels per transponder can mean with picture resolution.

Another plus for Star Choice is that they have a much better signal arriving in all of Canada, USA and Mexico. Bell X have signal problems in some areas.

 

[Mr Tony]

Simsubbing happens more than just prime time.

If a show is on both a Canadian network and a US network at the same time, you get simsubbed. ExpressVu "blanket simsubs" which everyone gets it.

SC does it by receiver. The rule is if you are in the Grade B of a Canadian network that has a show at the same time as a US show, they simsub the US channel. If you are outside grade B, then there is no simsub. But Bell just gives everyone a simsub.

I have an "address" where I get no simsubs because there are no Canadian channels to simsub

Depending on your address, you may get tons of simsubs or none. And yes Letterman, Leno, and those shows do get simsubbed depending on location

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simsub

 

[Kryspy]

"Some people just can't fathom what over compression with too many channels per transponder as compared to another provider that puts less channels per transponder can mean with picture resolution."

And some seem to be unable to fathom that there exists hardware that does a good job of scaling a mpeg stream thus eliminating those said artifacts...... it's called a 9200.

Keep beating the dead horse !!!!

I am very picky and critical of every piece of technology in my house..... if ExpressVU was that bad I wouldn't have it... in fact I'd be viewing off air only as Starchoice hardware is the deal breaker for me.

Kryspy

 

[jself1982]

Simsubbing happens more than just prime time.

SC does it by receiver. The rule is if you are in the Grade B of a Canadian network that has a show at the same time as a US show, they simsub the US channel. If you are outside grade B, then there is no simsub. But Bell just gives everyone a simsub.

I have an "address" where I get no simsubs because there are no Canadian channels to simsub

I have a Toronto address, am I getting simsubbed? I have never really paid any attention to it.

 

[Jumbo Dumbo]

I have a Toronto address, am I getting simsubbed? I have never really paid any attention to it.

There are no HD simsubs on SC. If you have Buffalo or Detroit SD, you will be getting some simsubs there. If you only have Spokane as your SD feed, you will only get a simsub when a Toronto area station has the same live programming as the Spokane station - which ain't going to happen very often.

 

[Jumbo Dumbo]

Kryspy,

Regarding the "sim sub".
I read about this and would shows like Good Morning America, The Today Show,
The Tonight Show, Letterman, etc do the "Sim subbing" ?

To avoid the whole issue on simsubs HD - just go with a SC DSR505 HD receiver - less hardware cost, less programming cost for what you want, no HD simsubs and certainly less rainfade on the west coast due to higher "look" angle of SC.

 

[jself1982]

There are no HD simsubs on SC. If you have Buffalo or Detroit SD, you will be getting some simsubs there. If you only have Spokane as your SD feed, you will only get a simsub when a Toronto area station has the same live programming as the Spokane station - which ain't going to happen very often.

I have Detroit/Rochester as my network feed and Spokane as my alacarte deal thing. Does this mean I am simsubbed? Should I swap the 2 and make Spokane my network feed and Detroit/Rochester the alacarte?