Scaler Ring Removed

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PopcornNMore

PopcornNMore

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2005
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Gibsonia, PA
How would a C band LNBF perform with the scaler ring removed? I would like to experiment once again today and find some C band signals, but due to the feed support leg design of my offset dish the scaler ring does not fit.

Also, with the scaler ring on it can be adjusted from 34 to 42 on the c band model ASC421 LNBF. Which is the best setting. I had mine adjusted to 42 before removing it.
 
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lumpkin666

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 21, 2007
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I've seen pictures of c-band lnb's with the feedhorn removed in order to mount in various positions, so it must work. I'm not sure how well.

As for the scaler ring, I assume that you'll need to calculate the focal distance for your dish and use that setting. There are a few links around the forums (and basic formulas) to help you calculate that value.

GOOD LUCK!
 
T

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
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How would a C band LNBF perform with the scaler ring removed? I would like to experiment once again today and find some C band signals, but due to the feed support leg design of my offset dish the scaler ring does not fit.

Also, with the scaler ring on it can be adjusted from 34 to 42 on the c band model ASC421 LNBF. Which is the best setting. I had mine adjusted to 42 before removing it.


It will work without it. The scaler ring is a choke plate, it attenuates off axis and out of focus signals. You will probably be subjected to more adjacent satellite interference, thermal noise, etc with out it. As far as a focal distance goes just slide it in and out for your best resulits. It's called experimentation:)
 
gabshere

gabshere

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Aug 20, 2006
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Rison , Arkansas
there is also a photo here ( somewhere i will have to look) of someone who modified a plastic funnel and wrapped it with foil to work like a conical scaler
 
PopcornNMore

PopcornNMore

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2005
3,635
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Gibsonia, PA
It will work without it. The scaler ring is a choke plate, it attenuates off axis and out of focus signals. You will probably be subjected to more adjacent satellite interference, thermal noise, etc with out it. As far as a focal distance goes just slide it in and out for your best resulits. It's called experimentation:)

Thank you very much for the explanation of how a scaler ring works. During my experiment I discovered that you are exactly right and I did simply move the LNBF in and out to find the ideal focal point.

Using my Channel Master 1.2m dish I was able to receive two feeds of the World Harvest Network, The Word, several feeds of EWTN, Roberts Communication feeds, HTN and a few sports feeds very stable and clear without using a scaler ring and without adjusting in order the get the signal the best it could possibly be.

However, in order to receive the NBC networks, ION networks and all the other additional programming C band provides I will certainly need to use my Channel Master 1.8m dish and use the scaler ring. I will need to also design feed support legs for this dish to accept the model ASC421 C band LNBF.

It was a neat experiment and I had a lot of fun doing so. The wife just rolls her eyes. :)
 
PopcornNMore

PopcornNMore

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2005
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Gibsonia, PA
Search for this earlier thread:

"Convert CM120 KU LNB Mount to BSC421"

and look at the brackets to see if it might help.

Harold

Caddata, thank you very much for providing this link.
 
C

caddata

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 8, 2005
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Jacksonville, FL
...thank you very much for providing this link...

My pleasure.

The neat thing about the brackets is that you won't have to modify the support struts and the stock feed bracket can be reinstalled later if need be.

I can supply you with a PDF file that you can print. If you have flat aluminum stock, all you'd have to do is trace around the template and mark the holes for drilling. Or if you have alumimnum angle. you'd just fold the template to fit the angle and mark around it and mark the hole centers for drilling.

Harold
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
299
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Mankato, MN
However, in order to receive the NBC networks, ION networks and all the other additional programming C band provides I will certainly need to use my Channel Master 1.8m dish and use the scaler ring.

NBC uses 7/8 FEC so you need a really good signal to pick them up and be stable. Equity on G3 is the same way.

I have a bugger with them on my 6 footer :)
 
PopcornNMore

PopcornNMore

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 20, 2005
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Gibsonia, PA
Thank you Iceberg, I will keep that in mind when trying to tune in those stations. Perhaps I could talk wife into allowing a bigger dish. :)
 
Last edited:
Dishpointer

Dishpointer

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Jan 10, 2005
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Kansas
My pleasure.

The neat thing about the brackets is that you won't have to modify the support struts and the stock feed bracket can be reinstalled later if need be.

I can supply you with a PDF file that you can print. If you have flat aluminum stock, all you'd have to do is trace around the template and mark the holes for drilling. Or if you have alumimnum angle. you'd just fold the template to fit the angle and mark around it and mark the hole centers for drilling.

Harold

I would appreciate the file as this weekend I dusted off the MicroBud to try to get my hunting shows back that Dish removed. I sure wish I saw your lnb mount yesterday. That sure would have saved me a headache. Nice job by the way.
 
T

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
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Thank you very much for the explanation of how a scaler ring works. During my experiment I discovered that you are exactly right and I did simply move the LNBF in and out to find the ideal focal point.

Using my Channel Master 1.2m dish I was able to receive two feeds of the World Harvest Network, The Word, several feeds of EWTN, Roberts Communication feeds, HTN and a few sports feeds very stable and clear without using a scaler ring and without adjusting in order the get the signal the best it could possibly be.

However, in order to receive the NBC networks, ION networks and all the other additional programming C band provides I will certainly need to use my Channel Master 1.8m dish and use the scaler ring. I will need to also design feed support legs for this dish to accept the model ASC421 C band LNBF.

It was a neat experiment and I had a lot of fun doing so. The wife just rolls her eyes. :)

Glad I could be helpful :) To really get solid good results on C band one should use at least a (3 meter) 10 foot dish. This will result in not only headroom on weak signals but will also work well with 2 degree spacing.

I went from a 10 foot to a 12 foot (3.8m) back in 1989. At that time satellites generally were spaced 4 degrees or better apart so spacing wasn't an issue. Then we were dealing with 5 watt or less satellite transponders, and every bit of gain was needed. It also made things fall right into place for me with 2 degree spacing. To put it short my 12 foot don't have any receive issues because of it's gain and excellent sidelobes. It was a wise investment.

As the years progressed satellites got stronger but closer together (especially in the cable jungle) which brought up problems on smaller dishes with sidelobes that were less than 10 db down. So it's always better to go as big as you can especially when targeting channels with 7/8 FEC. 10 foot dishes usually is the cutoff point where smaller than that problems start.

I get NBC and Ion in the 90 to 99 quality range, depending on how well I peak my dish's actuator on bird.

If you have the space and no rules against it go for a 10 foot or bigger dish. You'll never regret it:)
 
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C

caddata

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 8, 2005
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Jacksonville, FL
...I would appreciate the file...

Dish:

Three files are attached to this message. One is the assembly for your reference. It doesn't need to be plotted to scale. The second file is the bracket and it's important to print it to scale. If 1:1 doesn't work you may have to play with it. Just cut it out (like a paperdoll) and trace around it and centerpunch the hole locations. Saw and file the profile,drill the holes, and bend it in a vise and you're done. The third shows dimensions that I used for alignment on my Channelmaster 1.2M. Don't know if they'll work for yours or not but they should.

My brackets were fabricated from 0.070" aluminum that I found in the scrap pile. I wouldn't go much thinner than 0.062" but you could go as thick as 0.125" if you like. I'd say 0.125" would work well. Lowe's, Home Depot, or any local hardware store should have a selection of aluminum flats and shapes. If flat is not available, you could use angle and just saw off one leg.

I used 3/4" non-metallic cable (Romex) connectors from Lowe's (stock number 45176) to clamp to the stock feed struts. The stock feed struts won't have to be modified for this application and can be left stock for later reinstallation of the stock bracket later if you want.

Good luck with your fabrication.

Harold
 

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D

Davage

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 26, 2005
1,063
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Southwestern Ontario
NBC uses 7/8 FEC so you need a really good signal to pick them up and be stable. Equity on G3 is the same way.

I have a bugger with them on my 6 footer :)

Iceberg, are those NBC feeds 4:2:2 or 4:2:0, do you know? I've got my C-Band pole planted in the ground. Tonight I'm hoping to get the dish up on the pole :) I ghetto moved the dish on the weekend and found some other feeds. When I get the dish on the pole I'd like to tune in the NBC feeds in digital if possible on my Fortec receiver.
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
NBC on AMC4 C-Band is 4:2:0...they're 4:2:2 on AMC1 KU
 
Dishpointer

Dishpointer

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Supporting Founder
Jan 10, 2005
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Kansas
Thanks for the files Harold. This sure beats the zip-tie meathod.
 
C

caddata

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 8, 2005
333
0
Jacksonville, FL
Hey Guys:

Thanks for the thanks, but there is no need to thank.

That's what we're here for, to help eachother.

That's what makes this forum what it is----The Best.

What tremendous Moderators, who have set and maintained this great environment. New posts from new members everyday, everyone with something to add.

This open structure feeds the group like sour dough bread, it's self sustaining.

Harold
 
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