Sean is 100% Correct About D* Picture Quality
- Thread starter colebert
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 31
- Views 4K
- Status
Heh, I changed "we" (and removed "us") to "I" because I did not wish to presume I spoke for anyone else but myself, but glad to know "we" fit 
I for one am glad for this forum and for the information here. Years ago before Voom I had D's HD service. And it was terrible back then. Same complaints as I read here now. Since Voom has folded I have just stayed with OTA HD and SD from D. I was thinking of getting back into HD from D but not now. I just saw HD from Comcast in Plano,Tx. Wow! I hate cable companies but wow did it look good. Blew D and Voom away. But I can't get Comcast where I'm at. So for now until I can move again next year I'll go with HD from E. Then after my lease is up here at my apt. I'll either go with Comcast HD or Verizon FIOS which should be available in my area. I have very little hope or confidence for that matter in D's HD PQ getting better with MPEG4. If anything they will cram the system so full of HD locals the PQ will be just as bad as it is now or worse. tTanks again to you all.
Bob
Bob
Not sure how any particular person is comparing the actual pq from cable and or OTA vs. DIRECTV, but assuming you have all of those sources available and connected to the same HDTV and can do PIP or switch the inputs fast enough you would see very little to no visual difference. I understand you can read and properly understand the specs on paper, but can you actually see any difference in pq on a HDTV? On my 60" LG plasma I see the same pixel blotching on CableVision's HD local channels that I see on DIRECTV local channels.
HDTV's don't have the contrast ratio and resolution for the naked eye to see any difference between DIRECTV HD signal and the CableVision signal.
Technically speaking you are correct, but what we should all be concerned about is what we can actually see and to say that DISCOVERY HD on DIRECTV looks a little better than a VCR tape is certainly not possible. And when I read these type of comments I am compelled to write back to be sure other readers do not think that DIRECTV's HD look like their VCR tapes do.
Sorry, we just can't agree on this subject.
-Robert
HDTV's don't have the contrast ratio and resolution for the naked eye to see any difference between DIRECTV HD signal and the CableVision signal.
Technically speaking you are correct, but what we should all be concerned about is what we can actually see and to say that DISCOVERY HD on DIRECTV looks a little better than a VCR tape is certainly not possible. And when I read these type of comments I am compelled to write back to be sure other readers do not think that DIRECTV's HD look like their VCR tapes do.
Sorry, we just can't agree on this subject.
-Robert
Its a no win conversation Robert. They are all regurgitating tech specs from what they read or have been told and will refuse to admit that the two are 99% equal to the eyes. That being said its the service, non-bundled/special price, commitment to the expanding future and the NFL that makes DirecTV the clear winner. I never said I didn't see some need for improvement, but yet they claim its a pure night and day difference nationwide, when it clearly is not. I also admitted that there are a minute handful of local cable offerings that are "tweaked out" or "maxed out" to draw in consumers with a slightly superior product, but that is not the norm, and will change as time/promotions wear out. This thread is yet another "my cable is better" thread that crops up every day, and if THEIR'S is clearly better, then that is fine by me and they can ride with it. Why hang out in the DirecTV threads? Hang out in the cable threads and discuss issues there.
I spent 4 months going back and forth over whether to switch to D* or stay with comcrap. I read all through the D* forums here and came across a few talking about "HD-Lite" and some smattering of people whining about poor PQ. Like most everything dealing with people on an internet chat board discussing Audio/Video products and services, I assumed they were complaining about MARGINAL DIFFERENCES between pretty much similar services... So I reflexively and foolishly disregarded the comments.
Now here I sit with my week old D* service and I see a remarkable difference in SD and General HD programming. Its a compelling difference. Some SD channels DO INFACT look like SuperVHS, Beta tape, or DivX encoded AVIs. With the HD its hard to say because obviously the bitrates change based on what programming is sharing a transponder with what else at what time. But its an understandment to say its noticable.
Furthermore, as a retort to your desire to not over-hype the quality problems and scare away potential D* subscribers, I would say (from experience) that these same people shouldn't callously disregard the legitimate grips we have about PQ either. For anyone with a modern TV and a passing interest in HD, its pretty bad compared to good cable or OTA. (debate rages if such things even exist, but I for one believe my comcrap rated good to excellent in PQ.)
Now here I sit with my week old D* service and I see a remarkable difference in SD and General HD programming. Its a compelling difference. Some SD channels DO INFACT look like SuperVHS, Beta tape, or DivX encoded AVIs. With the HD its hard to say because obviously the bitrates change based on what programming is sharing a transponder with what else at what time. But its an understandment to say its noticable.
Furthermore, as a retort to your desire to not over-hype the quality problems and scare away potential D* subscribers, I would say (from experience) that these same people shouldn't callously disregard the legitimate grips we have about PQ either. For anyone with a modern TV and a passing interest in HD, its pretty bad compared to good cable or OTA. (debate rages if such things even exist, but I for one believe my comcrap rated good to excellent in PQ.)
charper1 said:
charper, again, you do good work in these forums and are obviously a smart man. but with all due respect, this thread is about D*s PICTURE QUALITY vis-a-vis other providers. You're simultaneously muddling, ignoring, and hijacking the original issue.
I'm not a cable sword-clatterer stirring up trouble. I'm a D* sub trying to make a point about PQ. No one is saying D* sucks overall. What we are saying is its a fine service in many respects, but its strained for bandwidth necessary to provide its customer a high quality picture across-the-board. That's all.
It APPEARS they are taking big steps to fix this problem with the new birds and the conversion to MPEG4, though. So the PQ will likely get better.
I guess thats why theyve been running experiments on it to try to fix it to no avail. You will find a thread on it at AVS programming forum.DTV TiVo Dealer said:
Funny Ken H. At AVS says he can see a difference between D*'s networkHD and OTAHD. Others can see more of a difference. Probably those viewing on 1080i sets. Theres a thread on AVS.DTV TiVo Dealer said:
As far as D* having better HD PQ there is no HD channel I can think of that D* has better HD PQ than most Comcast cable systems or Dish Network. That is gross misinformation.
My God even M. Cuban acknowledges the picture degredation recently calling it HDLITE. Heres a thread of a Civil discussion of it by some reputatable people. Even the hardline D* people acknowledge the deterioration. As well as the superior picture on cable http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582116&page=7&pp=30
charper, surley you know better than most this is a forum, and the definition of a forum is a medium for open discussion, I for one have regurgitated nothing, what I state is what I see with my own two eyes, and to accuse it denotes a sign of over-defensivness, which occurs when deception is being attempted, or bad judgment (maybe your brain/optical center doesn't see the problems some of the rest of us obviously do, I mean do you think we are all sitting around figuring out ways to tell people PQ sucks when it doesn't?)
Are our observations automatically ficticious because you cannot see the problem?
It is fine that it(D* PQ) is fine with you, we are not trying to convince you that you should beleive otherwise, but it is NOT fine with some of us(heck it's really not a huge deal with me persae, I mean it's just TV, not the unification theory), and you telling us its black, when it's obviously white won't change that, iow, don't crap on my cupcake and tell me it's chocolate icing.
It's simple, mpeg2 is used to compress, why is compression used? to make room where there would not normally be enough, and to make room for more content, compression must go up, lossyness goes up, PQ goes down, also, mpeg2 is some pretty lossy compression, loss impairs PQ, end of story.
That is what you want to argue against? Are you sure you want to maintain that stance?
I probably would not have replied, but the way you worded your post, you make wide-sweeping accusations about people you don't even know. I mean really, what do you mean by "they", does "they" to you mean those that don't agree with you? And the salesman part of your post was quite evident "makes directv a clear winner"? Almost comical, the thread was never about packaging, or bundles, or cost, it is about PQ, clearly your post is a strawman argument at best, and down right insulting at worst.
You are going to the point of making accusatory, judgmental remarks over something you guys claim is not an issue, that just doesn't float much water, and does nothing for ones reputation.
P.S. As I typed this I am watching Cops on CourtTV, the night sky in their shots are so compressed its not even funny, every solid area(not just black, just black is the first thing the encoding drops as a loss as a function of its algorithym) is full of the grey compression 'blocks', no major PQ/compression issue..yea. right. The difference in our sides of the argument is that we are willing to state that you may not be seeing the same things for whatever reason, your side however just blasts us as "regurgitators".
Are our observations automatically ficticious because you cannot see the problem?
It is fine that it(D* PQ) is fine with you, we are not trying to convince you that you should beleive otherwise, but it is NOT fine with some of us(heck it's really not a huge deal with me persae, I mean it's just TV, not the unification theory), and you telling us its black, when it's obviously white won't change that, iow, don't crap on my cupcake and tell me it's chocolate icing.
It's simple, mpeg2 is used to compress, why is compression used? to make room where there would not normally be enough, and to make room for more content, compression must go up, lossyness goes up, PQ goes down, also, mpeg2 is some pretty lossy compression, loss impairs PQ, end of story.
That is what you want to argue against? Are you sure you want to maintain that stance?
I probably would not have replied, but the way you worded your post, you make wide-sweeping accusations about people you don't even know. I mean really, what do you mean by "they", does "they" to you mean those that don't agree with you? And the salesman part of your post was quite evident "makes directv a clear winner"? Almost comical, the thread was never about packaging, or bundles, or cost, it is about PQ, clearly your post is a strawman argument at best, and down right insulting at worst.
You are going to the point of making accusatory, judgmental remarks over something you guys claim is not an issue, that just doesn't float much water, and does nothing for ones reputation.
P.S. As I typed this I am watching Cops on CourtTV, the night sky in their shots are so compressed its not even funny, every solid area(not just black, just black is the first thing the encoding drops as a loss as a function of its algorithym) is full of the grey compression 'blocks', no major PQ/compression issue..yea. right. The difference in our sides of the argument is that we are willing to state that you may not be seeing the same things for whatever reason, your side however just blasts us as "regurgitators".
charper1 said:
Horse excrement. The thread is about Mota being correct in regards to how bad the HD picture is on D*. He is absolutely right
- Status
