Sending the ASC1 into retirement?AJAK

[pdiddy]

The ASC1,is going into retirement,after many hundreds of hours of testing trying new sensors,I mean everything,the asc1 will not correctly send the dish to the correct satellite location with the ajak motoring system.The ajak puts out to much noise and effects the pulse rate.Works fine with my other system that has a super jack.Unless some one comes up with a fix between the ajak and the asc1 are not going to work.As of today,this project has died.I don't remember seeing a post of any success stories covering the two units working together.Your 2 cents are appreciated.

 

[FaT Air]

Are you using shielded wire on the Ajak's sensor?
Motor noise - place capacitors, maybe a .1uf and a 1 to 100 uf (non polorized) across the motor power leads as close to the motor as possible.
Replace the brushes and refurbish the commuter??
From: Some things I've had to do in the past.
For the type/symtoms may look this over http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/search/57821/?q=asc1+ajak&o=date&c[node]=53

 

[updatelee]

The cap right at the motor did help mine a little too. Ive got an oscilloscope so that helps ALOT finding noise. I also found my servo was quite noisy, PWM signals often are. putting a cap at the servo helped a little as well. Even with all that the pulses still weren't great and for my arduino mover I needed to build a low pass filter, the ASC1 didnt seem to need it, but the arduino sure did.

If youve got an oscilloscope you'll be able to track the noise down pretty easy, without one you'll just have to try allot of different things and hope for the best.

UDL

 

[KE4EST]

Like FaT Air, I am curious as to what kind of wire you are feeding your Ajak with?

 

[Titanium]

Pdiddy, do we have an open support ticket on this? I don't recall discussing your situation. If not, give me a call or email.

There is another customer who is having issues with his AJAK, but he uses modified switches and wheels, so was never sure what was the cause. He had noted that the terminal strip design of the AJAK places the S1/S2 sensor terminals next to the motor and the M1/M1 terminals away from the motor. He rotated the terminal strip 180 degrees to move the sensor terminals to the other end away from the motor and significantly reduced the noise in the sensor circuit.

 

[pdiddy]

Yea, tried moving the sensor wiring,yada yada yada.The power cable is totally separate,from the sensor wiring,they run in two separate cables that both have shielding from each other.You name it I tried it.At this point,all I want to know is one thing,is there one success story on this forum,that shows someone has a success story with the asc1 and an ajak???With out having to re-build the motor ect ect,I'm telling you these two unit are not compatible.I'm going back to something that works everytime and that's the $38.00 v-box.Wish I would have not taken it out of service in the first.This has caused more frustration then is legally allowed.Anyone need a boat anchor?

 

[Titanium]

Pdiddy, Thank you for talking crap about a great product without even the courtesy of contacting me or providing an opportunity to assist....

Several customers mentioned that they use AJAK when they placed their order, but in the past 7 months and over 500 units sold, I have only provided technical support for one user using an AJAK. Is there a compatibility issue? Anything is possible, that is just the nature of electronics. Based on the support that I have provided for the ASC1 users, do I think that there is some compatibility issue with an AJAK? I don't believe there is a compatibility issue with the AJAK, but there may be compatibility issues with the components, wiring or grounding of a customer's specific system.

Where is the control / sensor cable shield drain wire connected? At the motor? At the ASC1? Both ends? Not connected?

Have you opened a technical support ticket or called for technical assistance with this problem? If not, why not give a call or an email. What can I do for you if I didn't know that you had an issue and you don't allow me to provide support? If you want to call it quits without taking advantage of technical support, then there is little that I can do other than to suggest that you send the unit in and we put the unit on the bench to test. If there is a defect, I will replace. If it works fine on the bench, but not on your system, I will refund.

You are dealing with a company and more important, a person who believes in excellent customer service. I have a proven track record of making every purchase right for the customer, even if I lose money on the sale!!! I stand committed to providing excellent customer support. Want to give it a try?

 

[Magic Static]

I really wanted to keep a low profile on this issue. As I am totally responsible for all these problems. I talked pdiddy into the ASC1 and he paid me for it. I will refund the money since he has no receipt. I sold him the AJAK albeit I didn't know the sensor was no good. I invented the sensor running in his AJAK and my two AJAKs. You can't buy a replacement sensor for them at any price This all took place before the ASC1 and we have not had issue with the other DiSEqC controllers we used before the ASC1. I have made several revisions to the sensor that have improved the performance but not good enough for the ASC1. There is too much noise on the sensor circuit. This creates extra counts. It looks to be around a .02% error rate. The error can be consistent and because of this be almost unnoticeable in a back and forth movement as the error corrects out in the reverse move. But when you increase stability of the sensor the error is intermittent and you are very soon out of sync. Not having a recalculate function is sorely missed here. When I first encountered the issues it was paramount that the ASC1 be connected with proper wiring and I was not using shielded wiring. After a lot of effort I replaced all my cabling with "proper" ribbon cable. No splices and everything neat and tidy. To my surprise it worked even worse. In fact there was so much noise in the circuit none of the DiSEqC boxes worked. I did discover that just repositioning the wire harness enabled the VBoxes to run ok, but I want an ASC1. So I applied bandaid after bandaid. I applied a capacitor across the motor terminals at the motor. This helped the worst of the two AJAKs run on a VBox when it wouldn't before I replaced the wiring. I tried ferrite loops on the wiring at both ends. I noticed the proximity of the sensor circuit to the motor can because of the placement of the terminal block and removed the wiring altogether. I placed a capacitor on the sensor circuit. I've placed an adhesive foil barrier to try and shield the sensor wiring from the spinning magnet wheel itself. I am not a physicist or electrical engineer, and I don't have a lab to use. Without Brian having the same equipment to see what I do there would be no way for him to understand what the problem is and offer a solution. I have a scope and I can see the noise on the circuit but that doesn't tell me why it's there or where it's coming from. I do know this much. If there is a solution I will have to be the one to discover it. As Brian has said, he has sold many of the ASC1s to AJAK owners and I'm the only one with a problem. But for now, I'm out of ideas and I'm shelving the project. The VBox works fine for us. The ASC1 works fine for everything else. It's really a good piece of equipment. I wish everyone would put as much quality into their stuff.

 

[Titanium]

Thank you Magic Static for your input on this thread. I didn't want to mention a specific customer that I am working with, but you are the ASC1 AJAK tech support that I mentioned in the previous thread. I would also like to credit you with finding the reversed terminal strip solution.

I wasn't putting two and two together that you were having issues with Pdiddy's system. Since you sold this product to him, I will gladly refund the purchase cost to you if you would like to return.

Folks probably have no idea the hours of testing and trouble shooting, test files and Skype sessions that you and I have spent. Your patience, knowledge and knowing how to use a scope came in handy! Thank you for your assistance and professionalism!. Give me a call tomorrow and we will work out the details on refunding you for Pdiddys ASC1 purchase.

Edit: to recalculate, determine how many clicks off, drive to 0000 position +/- the number of counts the positioner is off, then perform a "Reset Position". The positioner counts are now resynced.

 

[pdiddy]

Boy that opened a hornets nest.The asc1 will work just fine for the channel master I have,I don't want or need a refund,I think a lot of people on this forum are like me in the way we really enjoy this hobby,and not only that but enjoy the camaraderie and expert help we get from other members whom share the same intrest.I an being totally honest when I say I really enjoy this, I got my first 8ft dish in 1985.Did not have a spec of problem with that system,the receiver was an STS?built in Japan.We all are damn lucky to have titanium produce these products,it just happens that the asc1 needs to cool off on the shelf at my house.The problems with the asc1,can I'm sure be worked out.Have tried many things to no avil,and not being an electronic engineer doesn"t help figuring out this problem.I have no ill will to anyone on this site or to any company that I have bought recievers from ,lnbfs,switches ect. MY goal in this post was to see if there was at one success story from one ajak/asc1 install.Another thing,any company whom would give you a refund shows integrity,and that is hard to come buy these days.Thank you.Thank you for what you do,not all products work perfectly right off the git go.we all know electronic do this and part of the reason is we each want to find the fix.This is one of the most enjoyable hobbies I've been into for quite a while.I will keep on trying,sooner or later we will find the culprit.Titanium keep doing what your doing we all appreciate your expertise.Sincerly P DIDDY

 

[Magic Static]

Edit: to recalculate, determine how many clicks off, drive to 0000 position +/- the number of counts the positioner is off, then perform a "Reset Position". The positioner counts are now resynced.

Interesting, 0000 is on the wrong side of the limit switch for me. I guess if you want this feature to be available, you have to use both negative and positive numbered counts in your positions list.

 

[Titanium]

Thank you Pdiddy for your gracious reply. I have experienced the similar challenges with hundreds of motorized C-band system installs and service calls throughout the years. Sensor and control circuits can be problematic and have existed for over 30 years. As everyone's system is unique, we just keep collecting notes of what works and what didn't. I have a binder full of notes collected over the years of tricks that I have used to overcome a system problem. Some were equipment specific and others were general fix-alls.

Magic Static, You can reset the positioner counter to be 0000 anywhere, but it might not have the desired results! LOL!!! I find it best to set 0000 to be just inside the Eastern or Western limit. This is a handy place to park the dish and retain the position counts when swapping positioners, firmware with a Global Reset, or installing a new satellite list. I would lose reference without 0000 !

 

[truckracer]

i retired both of mine. My motors dont play well with them. I am back on the vboxes.

Posted Via The FREE SatelliteGuys Reader App!

 

[truckracer]

same here. i am going to buy some new actuators later on and try.

Posted Via The FREE SatelliteGuys Reader App!

 

[Titanium]

Did you open a support ticket or call support?

Well, tell us more: What actuator motor? What version of firmware?What is the problem? Landing short of programmed position? Landing long (past) the programmed position? Using shielded control cables? Where is the shield drain wire grounded? Length of control wires?

 

[ynnedibanez]

maybe some companies reed switches that people are using in actuators and h-h motors have more problems with switch bounce and the asc1 is capable of reading pulses much faster than the other actuator controllers out there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch#Contact_bounce
http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/break-points/4024956/Solving-Switch-Bounce-Problems

 

[Titanium]

On firmware version 20140401v1 we introduced an anti-switch bounce process which analyzes the short duration chatter, eliminating this type of switch error.

 

[Pixl]

I just came in here to suggest the contact bounce as I was researching the subject but I see you guys are on it. Here is a article that address this with external circuits or just Google contact bounce.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_4/4.html
I use ordinary un-shielded phone wire 200ft long with no trouble.

 

[Magic Static]

Instead of bandaiding a bouncing switch, I've been looking at this to replace the reed switch.
http://www.digikey.com/PTM/PTMPartList.page?site=us&lang=en&ptm=30517
Magnetoresistive Sensor ICs

 

[ynnedibanez]

if i was designing a new sensor for something like an ajak mover, i would go optical.
it should be fairly simple to use an ir led, a photodiode, and a mosfet to put together something far more accurate than a magnetic sensor.
just a thought, on your homemade magnet wheels, are all the magnets facing the same way magnetically n-s, or are they staggered, or just random?