Struggling with pointing

[Swamp_Rat]

I can't get this Fortec 6' I bought to track correctly. I find AMC5 (my south) and get ok signal (55-60 quality). When I use roughly 27 and 31 degrees for elevation and declination angles I can't get squat. Are those numbers close or could it vary a couple of degrees. Part of what is screwing with me is the gbox I am using.
Do I make a rough guess where 79 is on the gbox and tune to it? Due south for me is 80.1 degrees.
It has been a long time since I have screwed with c band.
The mount is plumb and I am in the ballpark but just can't close the deal.
I am starting to feel like a retard.

Thanks,

Marty

 

[stogie5150]

I have never aimed a fortec, but just do the basics. Set up your dish on the true south satellite AMC 5 if that's what you said....set the declination FIRST and don't fool with it anymore.

Then, on your TS sat, fine tune the dish elevation and azimuth until its peaked. The use the Gbox to run the dish as far west as you can see, say AMC 7 for NASA.
THEN you see if its tracking. If it doesn't hit, or its weak, you move the WHOLE DISH, NOT the MOTOR, side to side on the pole to peak it.
Then after you get that, motor back to TS and check again.

We have a page here somewhere with very good instructions....

EDIT: Here ya go...VERY good aiming directions.

http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp4.html#anchor797917

 

[Swamp_Rat]

Do I zero the dish (at it's highest point) then swing the whole dish to find 79 after I set my elevations or do I use the motor to drive it there then fine tune?

Thanks for the help!

 

[stogie5150]

Do I zero the dish (at it's highest point) then swing the whole dish to find 79 after I set my elevations or do I use the motor to drive it there then fine tune?

Thanks for the help!

If 79 isn't very close to the zenith (highest point), use the motor to move it. My TS satellite is a couple degrees from TS here too, but I just set the angles get it close to due south, the use the motor to find the satellite. Once you get on the satellite, then you can adjust the side to side (without the motor, just pivot side to side on the pole) and elevation. DO NOT mess with the declination once you get it set.

IMO it isn't real critical to get it exactly right in the beginning, just get it good enough to find that first satellite. But once you find that TS satellite, THEN you can make it track with elevation and azimuth adjustments. just don't mess with the declination once you set it at TS.

 

[Swamp_Rat]

79 is 1.1 degree east of true south here (true south at 80.1). I have been trying to point the dish at true south (186 degrees magnetic) and then drive the dish east and screwing with the azimuth and elevations to peak it. I think I will give it a shot with the dish zeroed and go from there.

Thanks!

Marty

 

[Lak7]

With the Dish at it's Highest Point, it should be pointing to Due South, you said is 186 by compass.
Set the Elevation and Declination using the Modified Polar Mount Chart...
Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing
I think of it this way:
Elevation is UP from the Horizon
Declination is DOWN to the Horizon
So the face / rim of the Dish is Elevation minus Declination, at the Highest Point.

Then use the GBox to drive to AMC 5 and check signal.
Ku is very touchy on a Big Dish, You may want to drive to a C Band Sat first.
Your first tweak should not be elevation, try rotating the Dish on the Pole first, then Elevation.
Try not to touch the Declination, until you are positive.

 

[Swamp_Rat]

Thanks for all the help guys. I will go back to true south and go from there.

Thanks again!

 

[Lone Cloud]

I agree with setting the declination angle first then leaving it alone.

Getting the dish at its highest point, where it will be aimed due south, can be a
problem. I used a big carpenter's square - but my Birdview dish has surfaces at right angles to each other, so that's why that worked ok.

I still think the simplest way to aim is with wireless radio headphones (maybe 15 bucks) , using a receiver that has a "beep on scanning" function.

You hook the audio into the headphone transmitter, maybe put the transmitter by an open window, set your "beep to scan" receiver (I use a Viewsat Ultra - set it to beep in menu) get your receiver set on your due south satellite and make sure you have selected a transponder you know is hot - of course make sure your menu is set for your lnb.

Then just go to the dish with your headphone on and move the dish up. down and around until you get the strongest beep. Tighten bolts. Go back to your tv. Set G-box to 0000

set Receiver for the next satellite over - either east or west . Choose a transponder on that one you know is hot ( Lyngsat may be best for this) and click over until you get a strong signal. Save the position. note how many degrees off of 0000 the next satellite over is Note how many counts it took to get there. Mine for example is 15 counts per degree.

Your count per degree may vary depending on your dish mover.

It's how I do it. I'm in the far west and I get everything from 148 west to 55.5 west and that's a lot of sky.

 

[Swamp_Rat]

This is where I don't get it. True south for me is at 186 degrees. My "closest to" true south is AMC 5 at 79w. Lak7 says to point to true south and you say use the closest to true south as your zenith.
Which works better and is easier?

 

[truckracer]

Make sure your mounting pole is perfectly level and plumb. Set the dec. And forget it. Next concentrate on your elevation and polar axis.

Take your receiver outside with a small tv so you can see your signal meter.
After your true south bird is set up you should only have tweak the polar axis or elevation.
Then fine tune your skew and f/d.

I use a small cheap angle finder that is plastic from the local hardware store. I paid 5 dollars for it. Works fine.

 

[Lak7]

To me, it's what you're comfortable with.

 

[Lone Cloud]

This is where I don't get it. True south for me is at 186 degrees. My "closest to" true south is AMC 5 at 79w. Lak7 says to point to true south and you say use the closest to true south as your zenith.
Which works better and is easier?

Must be a typo because there is no such thing as 186 degrees east or west longitude. if it's 86 degrees west your closest due south satellite is 85 or 87 west

I have used the same angle finder to get the 5 degree declination I'm on right now.

I have a little tv, but I can assure you, running extension cord, dragging receiver and little tv out to dish (in my case on roof) is a big production. Leaving the receiver in place and plugging the audio into the headphone transmitter is WAAAY easier.

 

[truckracer]

My dish is in the back yard just about 8 feet from the ground so I can use a step ladder and small table with an extension cord.

In that case the headphone beeper idea sounds the safest. I guess one of those birddogs or other form of satellite signal finder meters that show quality levels that can hang by a strap around your neck would be handy.

 

[Lak7]

Must be a typo because there is no such thing as 186 degrees east or west longitude.

I think he meant "186 south" by compass

 

[Lone Cloud]

This is where I don't get it. True south for me is at 186 degrees. My "closest to" true south is AMC 5 at 79w. Lak7 says to point to true south and you say use the closest to true south as your zenith.
Which works better and is easier?

maybe you are saying you have 6 degrees of magnetic declination
(this is not the same declination as the 5 degrees tilt down of your dish) putting you somewhere in So Carolina probably


well if your dish is located right on 79 degrees west longitude on your map, zenith, true south and your good aim at that 79w sat will be all the same. if 79w is a few degrees one way or the other off of true south for you, I'd get zenith and then do 5 or 10 clicks in that direction with your gbox.

then move the dish around and up and down by hand until you get the beeps going strongest in your wireless (radio, not infrared) headphones. I'm in the west and my closest to true south satellite is one and one half degrees west of my house's longitude. I got zenith with my carpenter's square. then I gave it about 7 clicks west with the gbox Then did my wireless headphone boogie. Fast, easy

 

[stogie5150]

I cannot possibly imagine NOT having a tv at the dish. Now understand I've only done two installs, but there it NO possible way I would have gotten the absolute best signal without a TV at the dish, so I can watch the receiver's signal meter, confirm the satellite I was on, check for polarity problems, having a TV at the dish solves a whole HOST of problems.

Waaaaaaay back in 1982 the fellow that installed my family's dish used a 12" B&W TV to tune the dish in, and it still works to this day, just as good. We just use it in a different way. Instead of tuning to eliminate sparklies (when's the last time you saw that word, old timers? LOL) , we tune to strongest quality our receivers can show us.

But, IMO aiming isn't any different now than it was then, but now you have to be a LOT more precise, especially with Ku on a BUD.

To the OP:

Don't be so concerned with the TS numbers, magnetic deviation, and the like. Just set your declination, set your elevation as close as you can at the zenith, the use the GBOX to run the dish to the closest satellite to the zenith, then fine tune the elevation ONLY when you get that satellite. THEN after that can you continue with tuning the ends of the arc, like it says in the aiming instructions I provided the link to above.

Let us know how it goes, and we always like pictures!

 

[Swamp_Rat]

The way I have it set up a tv would be hard to use. The dish is mounted on a tall pole atached to the side of the house extending above the roof line. It is on a piece of schedule 80 3". It is also buried 4' in the ground in 6- 80lb bags of concrete. The Johnson inclinometer I have is a piece of junk. I went out this morning and picked up an electronic level. Looks pretty cool. My declination is 3.88 degrees. Last night I found the way the mount is produced I can't get that low. I am going to have to flip the top mount to get it. I have 79 at 85% quality. I figure once I drop the declination the extra 1/2% or so that I am short it will solve the problem.
I have my wife inside on the cell phone telling me what the meter is doing.
Eventually I will get it.

Thanks again for all the help.

BTW the sparkles always looked cool especially in my younger days.

 

[Swamp_Rat]

I have 6 degrees magnetic deviation putting true south at 186 degrees. I am located in south Florida zip 33435 to be exact.
I have the paperwork at home but I believe my elevation is 27.08 and declination is 3.88.

 

[Swamp_Rat]

One other question I have is this LNB supposed to be skewed or in any special position in the mount or does it just go in the scalar ring in any position and set the focal length.

GeaoSat Pro C KU Band Prime Focus LNBF

 

[Lone Cloud]

I've done 2 BUD installs and about 4 small dish installs.

As far as skew is concerned, I don't know about that lnb, but most have an arrow or mark which should line up with a mark on the scalar plate. It's true that it isn't easy getting the focal length in and out distance on the money with headphones, since you aren't going on a ladder on top of your roof while the dish is aimed.

A tv, receiver, extension cord all dragged onto the roof is something I have done, but I don't like it, and I have gotten better results and safer with the headphones.